My '02 Volvo XC70 has never run better than with Ultra 5W30. Not sure about cleanliness, but the car has never been so responsive and torquey.
Response from Pennzoil on Ultra
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Well, there are hundreds of thousands of GM DI-equipped engines on the road, starting in what, 2007? The CTS, The Camaro, The Traverse/Acadia/Enclave, the new Equinox/Terrain, and others. So far, I have not heard or seen one report regarding intake valve deposits on these engines.
Believe me, if it ever becomes an issue on our 3.0L V6 in the Equinox, I'll be sure to post about it. But I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to happen..
Believe me, if it ever becomes an issue on our 3.0L V6 in the Equinox, I'll be sure to post about it. But I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to happen..
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Originally Posted By: Nick R
Well, there are hundreds of thousands of GM DI-equipped engines on the road, starting in what, 2007? The CTS, The Camaro, The Traverse/Acadia/Enclave, the new Equinox/Terrain, and others. So far, I have not heard or seen one report regarding intake valve deposits on these engines.
Believe me, if it ever becomes an issue on our 3.0L V6 in the Equinox, I'll be sure to post about it. But I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to happen..
Interesting, I visited my friends shop yesterday after hours to put shocks in my van. I asked him about the GM DI engines and his words were he had two customers in just this week complaining of lost power one at about 35K miles and the other a bit higher. These were from 2008 and 2009 I think. IMO its still a problem in search of a solution. Another mechanic friend that owns a shop didn't have anything at all nice to say about them at all. His only comments are it is an evolving technology, here to stay and for now he has to deal with it. He thinks it's a future business opportunity. YMMV.
IMO a lot of people driving are clueless as to what is going on, and when something finally breaks they deal with it. Time will tell.
Please note those in defense if the DI engines, my mechanic friends haven't seen anything from 2010 to 2012, so the technology might be ironed out. People with the earlier applications of this technology are the ones having the problems.
Well, there are hundreds of thousands of GM DI-equipped engines on the road, starting in what, 2007? The CTS, The Camaro, The Traverse/Acadia/Enclave, the new Equinox/Terrain, and others. So far, I have not heard or seen one report regarding intake valve deposits on these engines.
Believe me, if it ever becomes an issue on our 3.0L V6 in the Equinox, I'll be sure to post about it. But I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to happen..
Interesting, I visited my friends shop yesterday after hours to put shocks in my van. I asked him about the GM DI engines and his words were he had two customers in just this week complaining of lost power one at about 35K miles and the other a bit higher. These were from 2008 and 2009 I think. IMO its still a problem in search of a solution. Another mechanic friend that owns a shop didn't have anything at all nice to say about them at all. His only comments are it is an evolving technology, here to stay and for now he has to deal with it. He thinks it's a future business opportunity. YMMV.
IMO a lot of people driving are clueless as to what is going on, and when something finally breaks they deal with it. Time will tell.
Please note those in defense if the DI engines, my mechanic friends haven't seen anything from 2010 to 2012, so the technology might be ironed out. People with the earlier applications of this technology are the ones having the problems.
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Well they did NOT answer the question on deposits on the intake valves in DI motors did they?
I don't think there is anything in the oil or fuel we can do to prevent deposits in "normal" DI motors. Add an injector BEFORE the valves and maybe that could help the issue.
Bill
How big of a problem do you think this 'deposit on intake valves in DI motors' is? I have had no issues with my 2008 MS3, although admittedly I haven't put a lot of miles on it. Mazda must be comfortable with DI as they are taking it to the next level with their new "SkyActiv-G" engines with 14.0:1 compression.
There won't be a problem with the Skyactiv 2.0. They designed the cylinder head to keep the intake valve at 400 degrees or higher. It will not allow build up.
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Well they did NOT answer the question on deposits on the intake valves in DI motors did they?
I don't think there is anything in the oil or fuel we can do to prevent deposits in "normal" DI motors. Add an injector BEFORE the valves and maybe that could help the issue.
Bill
How big of a problem do you think this 'deposit on intake valves in DI motors' is? I have had no issues with my 2008 MS3, although admittedly I haven't put a lot of miles on it. Mazda must be comfortable with DI as they are taking it to the next level with their new "SkyActiv-G" engines with 14.0:1 compression.
There won't be a problem with the Skyactiv 2.0. They designed the cylinder head to keep the intake valve at 400 degrees or higher. It will not allow build up.
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Well, there are hundreds of thousands of GM DI-equipped engines on the road, starting in what, 2007? The CTS, The Camaro, The Traverse/Acadia/Enclave, the new Equinox/Terrain, and others. So far, I have not heard or seen one report regarding intake valve deposits on these engines.
Believe me, if it ever becomes an issue on our 3.0L V6 in the Equinox, I'll be sure to post about it. But I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to happen..
Just wait. The Audi/VW issue did not manifest until the cars got older and had some miles on them. The average driver will not notice the power loss, as they never got WOT. Once there is a miss, then they will notice it.
My neighbors Acadia threw its timing chain at 60,000 miles. He took pictures of the heads and old valves. While there was not the famous VW/Audi build up, there was a decent amount of carbon on the intake valves. I would say by the time these engines (the HF V6) hit 120,000 miles, there may be more cases reported.
The only solution I see working is PCV gases need to be injected into the exhaust downstream. By keeping oil vapor and EGR gases out of the intake air, you should eliminate the vast majority of deposits. Playing with valve timing may help, but having oil vapor and combustion byproducts entering the intake air does not really help.
Well, there are hundreds of thousands of GM DI-equipped engines on the road, starting in what, 2007? The CTS, The Camaro, The Traverse/Acadia/Enclave, the new Equinox/Terrain, and others. So far, I have not heard or seen one report regarding intake valve deposits on these engines.
Believe me, if it ever becomes an issue on our 3.0L V6 in the Equinox, I'll be sure to post about it. But I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to happen..
Just wait. The Audi/VW issue did not manifest until the cars got older and had some miles on them. The average driver will not notice the power loss, as they never got WOT. Once there is a miss, then they will notice it.
My neighbors Acadia threw its timing chain at 60,000 miles. He took pictures of the heads and old valves. While there was not the famous VW/Audi build up, there was a decent amount of carbon on the intake valves. I would say by the time these engines (the HF V6) hit 120,000 miles, there may be more cases reported.
The only solution I see working is PCV gases need to be injected into the exhaust downstream. By keeping oil vapor and EGR gases out of the intake air, you should eliminate the vast majority of deposits. Playing with valve timing may help, but having oil vapor and combustion byproducts entering the intake air does not really help.
The thread began on Pennzoil Ultra but quickly morphed in DI valve deposits. Seafoam has a spray can with special tube to spray into the throttle body just ahead of the butterfly. When installed, the large hose from the MAF can be slipped onto the throttle body and the can of spray slowly introduced. While it would not be as effective as say a BG clean, it should be better than nothing.
Supposedly oil's heavy w/ grp v basestocks & low volatility can help minimize the amount of accumulation rate. Also apparently it's from both pcv & egr, so a catch-can or better yet, rerouting to the exhaust, past the cat helps on the pcv side & egr block eliminates it on the egr side.
There's a poster here who has tested M1 against Red Line & examined both after various amounts of mileage, both by tear down & via boroscope. He sent me pics of both on the latter of the two & there was a noticeable difference.
Unfortunately they are not ready to reveal their findings yet as they are developing their own oil for D.I. and a specific cleaning fluid to clean already gunked up intake valves on DI vehicles, which has some pretty dramatic results. They're also testing & noting mpg losses & gains & dyno's on new/gunked up/cleaned w/ product. Though they are still changing the formula & retesting w/ etc.
P.s. I noticed my power loss at about 12k miles. It is definitely a very real issue. But it's kind of like your hair growth. You don't notice it as it comes on slowly, very little each day. This is why they pay for dyno's before/after on test cars.
There's a poster here who has tested M1 against Red Line & examined both after various amounts of mileage, both by tear down & via boroscope. He sent me pics of both on the latter of the two & there was a noticeable difference.
Unfortunately they are not ready to reveal their findings yet as they are developing their own oil for D.I. and a specific cleaning fluid to clean already gunked up intake valves on DI vehicles, which has some pretty dramatic results. They're also testing & noting mpg losses & gains & dyno's on new/gunked up/cleaned w/ product. Though they are still changing the formula & retesting w/ etc.
P.s. I noticed my power loss at about 12k miles. It is definitely a very real issue. But it's kind of like your hair growth. You don't notice it as it comes on slowly, very little each day. This is why they pay for dyno's before/after on test cars.
Originally Posted By: partspro
The thread began on Pennzoil Ultra but quickly morphed in DI valve deposits. Seafoam has a spray can with special tube to spray into the throttle body just ahead of the butterfly. When installed, the large hose from the MAF can be slipped onto the throttle body and the can of spray slowly introduced. While it would not be as effective as say a BG clean, it should be better than nothing.
Never heard of Seafoam in a spray can. Have heard of Seafoam Deep Creep. But thats a WD40/kroil lube for rusty bolts, etc. Not something you should be spraying in the intake, especially a DI
The thread began on Pennzoil Ultra but quickly morphed in DI valve deposits. Seafoam has a spray can with special tube to spray into the throttle body just ahead of the butterfly. When installed, the large hose from the MAF can be slipped onto the throttle body and the can of spray slowly introduced. While it would not be as effective as say a BG clean, it should be better than nothing.
Never heard of Seafoam in a spray can. Have heard of Seafoam Deep Creep. But thats a WD40/kroil lube for rusty bolts, etc. Not something you should be spraying in the intake, especially a DI
Quote:
Never heard of Seafoam in a spray can. Have heard of Seafoam Deep Creep. But thats a WD40/kroil lube for rusty bolts
Deep Creep is Seafoam in a spray can they just give it another name.
Never heard of Seafoam in a spray can. Have heard of Seafoam Deep Creep. But thats a WD40/kroil lube for rusty bolts
Deep Creep is Seafoam in a spray can they just give it another name.
Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
Never heard of Seafoam in a spray can. Have heard of Seafoam Deep Creep. But thats a WD40/kroil lube for rusty bolts
Deep Creep is Seafoam in a spray can they just give it another name.
According to the MSDS its a different formulation. Deep Creep substitutes Naphtha for a mysterious "Low Odor based Solvent", adds Carbon dioxide.
From official site:
Seafoam:
Pale Oil 40-60%
Naphtha 25-35
IPA 10-20%
Seafoam Deep Creep:
Pale Oil 40-70%
Low Odor based Solvent 30-60%
IPA 10-30%
Carbon dioxide 3-7%
Quote:
Never heard of Seafoam in a spray can. Have heard of Seafoam Deep Creep. But thats a WD40/kroil lube for rusty bolts
Deep Creep is Seafoam in a spray can they just give it another name.
According to the MSDS its a different formulation. Deep Creep substitutes Naphtha for a mysterious "Low Odor based Solvent", adds Carbon dioxide.
From official site:
Seafoam:
Pale Oil 40-60%
Naphtha 25-35
IPA 10-20%
Seafoam Deep Creep:
Pale Oil 40-70%
Low Odor based Solvent 30-60%
IPA 10-30%
Carbon dioxide 3-7%
Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
Never heard of Seafoam in a spray can. Have heard of Seafoam Deep Creep. But thats a WD40/kroil lube for rusty bolts
Deep Creep is Seafoam in a spray can they just give it another name.
Nope. It's different. Deep creep is more for rusted nuts,frozen bolts,squeaky hinges etc. The seafoam spray cleaner is the same stuff in the regular cans with carbon dioxide as a propellant
Quote:
Never heard of Seafoam in a spray can. Have heard of Seafoam Deep Creep. But thats a WD40/kroil lube for rusty bolts
Deep Creep is Seafoam in a spray can they just give it another name.
Nope. It's different. Deep creep is more for rusted nuts,frozen bolts,squeaky hinges etc. The seafoam spray cleaner is the same stuff in the regular cans with carbon dioxide as a propellant
There is a Sea Foam, the regular stuff, in a can with a spray attachment. Different than Deep Creep.
I am on my third DI engined vehicle. My first was an'08 Mazdaspeed 3 and I now have 2 Ecoboost F150 trucks.
I traded my Speed 3 ( a move I regret because it was so much fun) in on one of the trucks at 60k miles. I cant comment on whether or not his intake valves were clogged or not , but I can say he always ran extremely good and on the day I traded him in he had no problem spinning the front tires in second gear.
As a matter of fact, I'm trying to figure out how to get another one ( new) before Mazda quits making them!
The two Fords have 24k and 13k on them respectively and like my Speed3, they are a joy to drive. My wife's Platinum is the one with 24k on it and it runs better now than when new - its loosened up nicely and really wants to go!
The high rise torque is very addictive and these 213 cu in engines whip our nearly 6000 lb 4X4 trucks around like a rag doll.
If I can say any thing about the DI engines it is : top tier gas only, keep the oil changes to manufacturer recommendations, use top quality oil and above all blow them out once in a while (like every time you drive it). Worked wonderfully for my Speed3 and hopefully for my trucks as well. If there is a problem I'll get back here and say so, but for now, the DI engines have been great for me.
I have a post here about a 9400 mile OCI on the Platinum, in which the trucks IOLM claimed to have 12% oil life left, but I think 6k is more reasonable given the DI engine is a wee bit stressed. My Speed really liked the Pennzoil products so that's what the trucks will get from here on ( I started them out on MC full syn).
Just wanted to post something positive about the DI engines which is my experience.
I traded my Speed 3 ( a move I regret because it was so much fun) in on one of the trucks at 60k miles. I cant comment on whether or not his intake valves were clogged or not , but I can say he always ran extremely good and on the day I traded him in he had no problem spinning the front tires in second gear.
As a matter of fact, I'm trying to figure out how to get another one ( new) before Mazda quits making them!
The two Fords have 24k and 13k on them respectively and like my Speed3, they are a joy to drive. My wife's Platinum is the one with 24k on it and it runs better now than when new - its loosened up nicely and really wants to go!
The high rise torque is very addictive and these 213 cu in engines whip our nearly 6000 lb 4X4 trucks around like a rag doll.
If I can say any thing about the DI engines it is : top tier gas only, keep the oil changes to manufacturer recommendations, use top quality oil and above all blow them out once in a while (like every time you drive it). Worked wonderfully for my Speed3 and hopefully for my trucks as well. If there is a problem I'll get back here and say so, but for now, the DI engines have been great for me.
I have a post here about a 9400 mile OCI on the Platinum, in which the trucks IOLM claimed to have 12% oil life left, but I think 6k is more reasonable given the DI engine is a wee bit stressed. My Speed really liked the Pennzoil products so that's what the trucks will get from here on ( I started them out on MC full syn).
Just wanted to post something positive about the DI engines which is my experience.
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