Redline D6 ATF substituting for Toyota WS

Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Toyota makes great cars. WS is a good ATF. Same with Honda's DW-1. They will work, no doubt.
I prefer to use a higher quality fluid like Idemitsu.

And our 2018 RX450h and 2013 GS350 F Sport are not boring cars, at least in my opinion.
Just my 2 cents.

I am not sure how these two things go together.
WS will work, and DW-1 will work in Honda.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
AzFireGuy79 said:
You are losing me I'm not gonna lie.. Your "opinion" is that Aisin transmissions, not Toyota(Toyota does not fully own or control that company fyi) can run on substandard oil, and last forever, but the engines when driven beyond a reasonable level will simply not be up to the task🤔. The 2UZ-FE in particular is bulletproof. I think you just don't like Toyota's, and your communication skills are a little lacking.

At no time do you present any tangible data, just your opinion of a manufacturer as a whole. This site use to be about data
and real world experience. Lately personal opinions backed by zero professional experience seem to be the prevailing theme....

"I think you really missed my point.
Toyota WS will be fine in that transmission. It is not like Toyota makes that fluid, and even if it does, it will be fine. Toyota is an expert in making uber, super, duper boring vehicles. They even admitted that that they lost know-how in last two decades so that is why they decided to go with BMW on last Supra (among other things they buy from BMW).
But Toyota made that decision, to make vehicles like that, and they make money and that is it. Using WS is perfectly fine. I stated what I stated because all this drama around WS. First of all, if D6 for example is such a good oil, why they do not get approvals from transmission manufacturers? That is same thing they do with engine oils, and in reality they cannot get approvals. Redline recently did that with their 5W40 oils, acquired approval from BMW< but it turned out they had to develop completely different oil and it is mediocre oil at best compare to other BMW approved oils. So unless that transmission fluid says that it is approved by Toyota, I first will put WS in my Toyota once I hit 60k when I will change fluid in transmission, TC and differentials.
My point is there is too much talk about something that is pretty straightforward and above all, we are talking about vehicles that are purposely developed as not bulletproof, but dumbproof.
As for Toyota as manufacturer, I still claim Yugo had some things better executed. When I owned Yugo and installed aftermarket audio system I did not have to roll down window to stop rattling noise in the doors. I actually have to do that with 2015 Sienna"



We get it, you don't like Toyota. How about contributing to the thread by keeping it on topic. I'm going to be nice and state that you are hard to understand. I'm not sure why, but let's just leave it at that.

Redline D6 is a very capable ATF. I've used it in many applications. I didn't like the shift characteristics in my 06 Tacoma though vs WS. But in a GM 4L60E the stuff is amazing. But again you have made it clear you also don't like Redline. Oh we've established you like Yugo though🤔... my head hurts. Back to the topic at hand
 
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Toyota is by far the most reliable vehicles - are they the best driving one NO. Now a person driving a Camaro, Mustang or any other vehicles cannot stand driving a Toyota.
They are for 80% of the population who don't abuse their investments for them Toyota is OK and fine.
Same goes with WS, the work on their transmissions, if you don't like the ATF then do regular D&F.
Going to the extent that its a bad fluid for the transmission is by far nonsense, are you smarter than the thousands of mechanical and fluid engineers out there.
 
Originally Posted by MaximaGuy
Toyota is by far the most reliable vehicles - are they the best driving one NO. Now a person driving a Camaro, Mustang or any other vehicles cannot stand driving a Toyota.
They are for 80% of the population who don't abuse their investments for them Toyota is OK and fine.
Same goes with WS, the work on their transmissions, if you don't like the ATF then do regular D&F.
Going to the extent that its a bad fluid for the transmission is by far nonsense, are you smarter than the thousands of mechanical and fluid engineers out there.

I own Land Cruiser Prado diesel in Europe, and it is far more unreliable then my BMW diesel was.
Toyota is reliable here in the US where they bring outdated engines since gas is cheap. They bring dumbproof V6 or V8 which any company could bring, just need to go and take engine that was retired some 20 years ago.
In places where fuel is much more expensive like Europe, where engines have to be much more sophisticated to offer efficiency and performance, Toyota has shady record at best.
So when you talk about Aisin, etc. hold your horses. It is OK, but nothing special. Say: yeah Toyota is reliable, not: nothing compares to Aisin. Apparently you never heard of ZF.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Say: yeah Toyota is reliable, not: nothing compares to Aisin.


Mr, stick to the discussion about RL and WS, don't get carried away to another topic. Yes, I have and know enough to have a discussion on ZFs.
 
Originally Posted by MaximaGuy
Originally Posted by edyvw
Say: yeah Toyota is reliable, not: nothing compares to Aisin.


Mr, stick to the discussion about RL and WS, don't get carried away to another topic. Yes, I have and know enough to have a discussion on ZFs.

You mentioned that about Aisin, so that is why I am mentioning.
My point is WS will be fine. Are there better fluids out there? Yes. Are they necessary? No.
 
Originally Posted by Raybo
Been running Redline D6 in my 2007 Prius for 120,000 miles and 11 years. Love it.

I sent out the fluid to Wearcheck after about 40,000 miles when I first started using it and although showed spectacular low wear numbers the TAN was creeping up a little. Makes perfect sense to me as Redline D6 is pure Esther base stock fluid and has no life extending package mainly calcium which is an anti acidic agent.

The WS has a very big calcium pack in it based on UOA'
s I have seen which is why they tout it as Lifetime Fluid. But calcium is a wear agent.

So...Redline trans fluid is a great product but it helps to know how the trans is digging it. Some trans are more acidic than others. Based on my car 50,000 miles is about as long as I would like it in there.

High performance is not cheap.


Shaing, someone posted their Prius's ATF UOA with 30K mi on RL D6 and their Ca level looks similar to my wife's Lexus ES350 40K mi on OEM Toyota-WS
According to Blackstone, 50K mi is the recommended ATF RL D6 OC.

https://priuschat.com/threads/oil-analysis-redline-d6-atf-30k-miles.200575/

Update Posts #72:
https://priuschat.com/threads/this-is-why-redline-d6-is-not-the-best-atf-in-prius.120857/page-4



Lexus_ES350_ATF.JPG
 
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OK guys, I do not want to open new thread but need some advice.
I know WS is good fluid.
I drive this minivan bit differently. When I go to ski rpm's are not dropping below 4500 going up (I manually shift between 2-4, keeping constantly in max torque band), and going down, I use engine to slow, so rpm's are still high.
Wondering whether to stay with WS or "upgrade" to Maxlife or even Redline D6, although I am not fan of their marketing, but I know their tranny fluid is good.
So, two questions:
1. Make sense switching fluid and which?
2. Would you mix it with WS as I am not fan of transmission flush?
 
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Originally Posted by HangFire
on:
2. I've mixed MaxLife with WS for years in my Corolla, 186K miles and counting, no transmission issues.

Good to know. Generally I think Maxlife should be superior fluid in every aspect compared to WS.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
OK guys, I do not want to open new thread but need some advice.
I know WS is good fluid.
I drive this minivan bit differently. When I go to ski rpm's are not dropping below 4500 going up (I manually shift between 2-4, keeping constantly in max torque band), and going down, I use engine to slow, so rpm's are still high.
Wondering whether to stay with WS or "upgrade" to Maxlife or even Redline D6, although I am not fan of their marketing, but I know their tranny fluid is good.
So, two questions:
1. Make sense switching fluid and which?
2. Would you mix it with WS as I am not fan of transmission flush?



I can not speak for D6 other than the high percentage of esters used in Redline is pure marketing the amount is less than 10%. The friction modifiers in Maxlife are simular to WS there should be no issue mixing the two.
 
Aisin who makes all Toyota transmission sell ATF6+ for Toyota WS, Honda DW1, Nissan S, Dexron VI or Mercon LV.
It means, these ATF are thr same family, within viscousity range, additives robustness, etc. In short, we can use any certified Dexron IV or Mercon LV just like what Tesla use in their Motor and transmission. Fortunately, GM and Ford do certification unlike Toyota.

For older transmission Aisin also sell ATF 6, it is for Toyota T-IV, and anything with Dexron IIIH or Mercon V, older Honda, Nissan, Hyundai, etc.

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/ATF-91001-Aisin-Gear-Oils/dp/B079L721GX
 
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