You will be a believer when you drain your transmission oil (manual) after 60,000kms and the RL 75W90NS looks the same as the day it was installed.
Red Line oil and BITOG?
- Thread starter AzFireGuy79
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I've used Redline, AMSOIL, Havoline and many others. I've dropped Redline from my personal inventory. I carry AMSOIL, PP, Havoline and Schaeffer.
I'm not an oil saleman and if you can, buy from BITOG sponsors. Check out this link below. In the pictures AMSOIL actually looks good IMO. I know this is racing but from reading BITOG UOA's this presents more evidence BITOG is a good source shopping for motor oil. I know I know....I can read it now...
http://kijinc.com/
I'm not an oil saleman and if you can, buy from BITOG sponsors. Check out this link below. In the pictures AMSOIL actually looks good IMO. I know this is racing but from reading BITOG UOA's this presents more evidence BITOG is a good source shopping for motor oil. I know I know....I can read it now...
http://kijinc.com/
I may be a relative newcomer here, but I general forum etiquette is to keep topics in the appropiate subforums. This being the "Passenger Car Motor Oil (PCMO) - Gasoline Cars/Pickups/Vans/SUVs" forum, I believe it is best to keep on that topic and not muddy the waters with comments on other types of oil.
I'm not sure what colour of a trans oil proves.
If its black it proves you are in deep [censored]
AJ you'll know when your dealer head mechanic just doesn't believe somebody had not just changed the oil. What's in your Audi?
Gear oil can go 200k, be totally black and the unit not fail. End of story.
My old '84 F150 has about 250,000 miles on it (I know the current owner). Still running the original factory rear end lube. Still I wouldn't hesitate to fill a rear end with Redline nowadays. Can't hurt, may help, and surely will help prevent failure if something goes wrong that a lesser lube may not handle.
I currently use Redline in the drive trains of my 2 Toyotas. In future I am going to use Amsoil as it is just slightly more than HALF the price of the Redline equivalent.
Roger
Roger
AJ if you believe your Audi deserves that that you just went way down in my estimation and I've always had the utmost respect for you and your posts. I wonder if you are 'taking-the-[censored]?'
Much of the above is what I find so hokey about Redline boosterism.
When the question is "What's deal with Redline Passenger Car Motor Oil (PCMO) - Gasoline Cars/Pickups/Vans/SUVs?", why would anybody consider the correct and appropiate answer to be, "XYZ racing uses 30wt" or "works great in my transmission."
Whatever happened to the idea of providing straight answers to straight questions?
BTW - there's a good general life lesson there. Always be suspicious when someone responds to your question not by answering it, but by changing the subject to a question they would rather answer.
When the question is "What's deal with Redline Passenger Car Motor Oil (PCMO) - Gasoline Cars/Pickups/Vans/SUVs?", why would anybody consider the correct and appropiate answer to be, "XYZ racing uses 30wt" or "works great in my transmission."
Whatever happened to the idea of providing straight answers to straight questions?
BTW - there's a good general life lesson there. Always be suspicious when someone responds to your question not by answering it, but by changing the subject to a question they would rather answer.
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Originally Posted By: jpr
Much of the above is what I find so hokey about Redline boosterism.
When the question is "What's deal with Redline Passenger Car Motor Oil (PCMO) - Gasoline Cars/Pickups/Vans/SUVs?", why would anybody consider the correct and appropriate answer to be, "XYZ racing uses 30wt" or "works great in my transmission."
Whatever happened to the idea of providing straight answers to straight questions?
BTW - there's a good general life lesson there. Always be suspicious when someone responds to your question not by answering it, but by changing the subject to a question they would rather answer.
jpr,
I've been here since the beginning and all topics start with question A and get answered with answer XYZ. Just pick any topic or brand. That's just the way it is.
Much of the above is what I find so hokey about Redline boosterism.
When the question is "What's deal with Redline Passenger Car Motor Oil (PCMO) - Gasoline Cars/Pickups/Vans/SUVs?", why would anybody consider the correct and appropriate answer to be, "XYZ racing uses 30wt" or "works great in my transmission."
Whatever happened to the idea of providing straight answers to straight questions?
BTW - there's a good general life lesson there. Always be suspicious when someone responds to your question not by answering it, but by changing the subject to a question they would rather answer.
jpr,
I've been here since the beginning and all topics start with question A and get answered with answer XYZ. Just pick any topic or brand. That's just the way it is.
It's a simple question that has a simple answer = oil analysis results for a $9qt of oil have been sub par in most cases. It is suggested by some that you need to have a "professional" interpretation to "understand" RL. That will cost you another $50. Do the math, it's quite easy to understand why RL has a bad reputation on here.
Some things I find interesting:
1. Most pro's that use RL use their racing oils which lack detergents. Making a PCMO is more complex. AW additives and detergents compete for the metal space.
2. JGR, M1R, RP, Shell/QS Racing oils are all majority PAO with some ester (usually less than 20%).
3. POE's have excellent shear stability and handle high temps very well.
4. RL seems to interact differently with soft metals. In some engines, usually VW/Toyota/Honda, RL does quite well. .....but so do many other oils.
Some things I find interesting:
1. Most pro's that use RL use their racing oils which lack detergents. Making a PCMO is more complex. AW additives and detergents compete for the metal space.
2. JGR, M1R, RP, Shell/QS Racing oils are all majority PAO with some ester (usually less than 20%).
3. POE's have excellent shear stability and handle high temps very well.
4. RL seems to interact differently with soft metals. In some engines, usually VW/Toyota/Honda, RL does quite well. .....but so do many other oils.
It is ironic to me that people will say in one post that you can't determine much from UOAs, then come along in another thread and use UOAs to make a case against an oil.
Do wear metals in UOAs tell the whole story or not? I frankly think they say a heck of a lot, but I also see a reasonable argument that ester-based oils need to be looked at differently, simply because of their polar nature.
Another point to make is that considering the indeterminate usefulness of comparing PAO/lower-group UOAs to ester-based-oil UOAs, the anecdotal "evidence" becomes all the more important, if a bit blurry. I just replaced the diff oil in my car after 90k, and I have to say it came out looking almost new, and that did impress me. Yes it can be black and the diff won't fail, but surely there's a lot more wear needed to make it black than to make it come out looking new! I've personally found MTL to work better in a number of manual trannies than anything else I've tried and usually by a "eureka!" margin.
Is RL's motor oil better? I still don't know. I haven't used it before. I suppose it is something of a polarizing issue here, but not because there is any good evidence against it: more because the claims for it among knowledgeable people seem to defy evidence. If UOA doesn't tell the story, what does? Not component lifespan, because that is so rarely reached on any oil. It basically comes down to marketing claims by the company and anecdotal claims by users, and that seems to turn some people off. Others simply turn away. But absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Red Line could be legitimately superior to the plethora of PAO/lower-group oils on the market, as far as I know or as far as anybody here appears to know.
I'm using it right now and when the time comes I'll post my UOAs, for whatever they're worth. It'll be a while.
Do wear metals in UOAs tell the whole story or not? I frankly think they say a heck of a lot, but I also see a reasonable argument that ester-based oils need to be looked at differently, simply because of their polar nature.
Another point to make is that considering the indeterminate usefulness of comparing PAO/lower-group UOAs to ester-based-oil UOAs, the anecdotal "evidence" becomes all the more important, if a bit blurry. I just replaced the diff oil in my car after 90k, and I have to say it came out looking almost new, and that did impress me. Yes it can be black and the diff won't fail, but surely there's a lot more wear needed to make it black than to make it come out looking new! I've personally found MTL to work better in a number of manual trannies than anything else I've tried and usually by a "eureka!" margin.
Is RL's motor oil better? I still don't know. I haven't used it before. I suppose it is something of a polarizing issue here, but not because there is any good evidence against it: more because the claims for it among knowledgeable people seem to defy evidence. If UOA doesn't tell the story, what does? Not component lifespan, because that is so rarely reached on any oil. It basically comes down to marketing claims by the company and anecdotal claims by users, and that seems to turn some people off. Others simply turn away. But absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Red Line could be legitimately superior to the plethora of PAO/lower-group oils on the market, as far as I know or as far as anybody here appears to know.
I'm using it right now and when the time comes I'll post my UOAs, for whatever they're worth. It'll be a while.
Is RL's motor oil better?
Trick question. No definition for "better".
Trick question. No definition for "better".
AJ your a cheapskate. I'm very surprised..s
What do you guys think of this Redline info?
http://www.vtr.org/maintain/lubricants-redline.shtml
http://www.vtr.org/maintain/lubricants-redline.shtml
Hi
Most of the queries relating to Redline Oils invite members opinions on the proposed oil selection. The way the question is often phrased leaves the initial query to be challenged sometimes.
Often the proponent will propose to use an oil just based on the fact it is a PAO/ESTER base which by some is considered to be the best formulation, but it doesn't mean it is the only oil that do the job under given circumstances.
As we all saw by the many excellent posts when SM oils, Group 3 replacing Group 4 and 5w20 oils first came into serious use, these were scrutinized and challenged to the max.
Now looking back over time it can be said using more expensive oils may offer little more, other than just make you feel good, perhaps Castrol was right about Group 3's in the correct application in 1999.
I at times, challenge the use of Redline Oils, on the basis that I believe they have place for use in the correct application. My comments are usually to tease out and invite serious thought into the correct oil selection other than the "you pay for what you ……" when there are other choices available.
If you can save $60 a year on oil changes then this can be used to support charities, by a gift for the BOSS (wife) very important, this is my little secret in how I get to surf this site. If the proponent of the question wants to spend the funds anyway, it’s their choice I don’t have aproblem with it, and at least I have cleared my conscious.
Fortunately, most responses are usually justified and explained such as extended drain, reduce down time, high temperature and track use, monitoring with UOA’s, high cost is not an issue, the value of the vehicle is often many times the most that can be afforded by Average Joe Citizen etcetera.
If one are unable to accept questions and is having difficulty in coming up with the reasons for the selection, what that individual is telling me is more research and evaluation is required in justification of their choice.
I know this only about engine oil, and perhaps there are more important things in life to some, but I have one obsession / passion in life (oil) and I not feel out of place on this forum is OK. I am not alone. Fortunately there are many knwledgeable members to learn from.
Redline IMO doesn't get any harsher treatment than others, and is often well acknowledged and respected.
Most of the queries relating to Redline Oils invite members opinions on the proposed oil selection. The way the question is often phrased leaves the initial query to be challenged sometimes.
Often the proponent will propose to use an oil just based on the fact it is a PAO/ESTER base which by some is considered to be the best formulation, but it doesn't mean it is the only oil that do the job under given circumstances.
As we all saw by the many excellent posts when SM oils, Group 3 replacing Group 4 and 5w20 oils first came into serious use, these were scrutinized and challenged to the max.
Now looking back over time it can be said using more expensive oils may offer little more, other than just make you feel good, perhaps Castrol was right about Group 3's in the correct application in 1999.
I at times, challenge the use of Redline Oils, on the basis that I believe they have place for use in the correct application. My comments are usually to tease out and invite serious thought into the correct oil selection other than the "you pay for what you ……" when there are other choices available.
If you can save $60 a year on oil changes then this can be used to support charities, by a gift for the BOSS (wife) very important, this is my little secret in how I get to surf this site. If the proponent of the question wants to spend the funds anyway, it’s their choice I don’t have aproblem with it, and at least I have cleared my conscious.
Fortunately, most responses are usually justified and explained such as extended drain, reduce down time, high temperature and track use, monitoring with UOA’s, high cost is not an issue, the value of the vehicle is often many times the most that can be afforded by Average Joe Citizen etcetera.
If one are unable to accept questions and is having difficulty in coming up with the reasons for the selection, what that individual is telling me is more research and evaluation is required in justification of their choice.
I know this only about engine oil, and perhaps there are more important things in life to some, but I have one obsession / passion in life (oil) and I not feel out of place on this forum is OK. I am not alone. Fortunately there are many knwledgeable members to learn from.
Redline IMO doesn't get any harsher treatment than others, and is often well acknowledged and respected.
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I'm confused. My personal car, I swapped to RL at 7500 miles. My Mother-in-Law has a 13 year old 150k A6 automatic quattro that has the original fluid in it. I'm not paying for a bunch of diff oil and to do the difficult install for her. I'm not being cheap and it would, frankly, not make any diference in how that car performs nor affect the longevity of the gear system. Other things would and did die long before that. Bottom line is that maybe some cars and applications benefit from it, but gear oil service is very non-demanding. Sorry if that is not up to BitOG standards.
Originally Posted By: jpr
(1) I believe there is more criticism of unthinking boosterism of Redline than of the oil itself. But I believe this is the case for any oil discussed on BITOG, Redline has not been singled out. There is generally little patience here for claims that cannot be substantiated regardless of manufacturer.
(2) The second area of criticism is more about Redline's exaggerated and often misleading marketing claims, which can sometimes be reminscent of snake oil sales pitches. But again, I believe this sort of criticism occurs on BITOG for all oils from all manufacturers. It's that the bigger the claim and the less the data to back it up, the more pointed the criticism will be.
If you look past those two areas of criticism, I think you'll find the consensus opinion of Redline to be similar to that of most other synthetics - generally a good oil, better for some applications than others.
I do have data to backup Redline claims but sadly you don't want to pay to play. My offer still stands, put up or step off. Manufacturers (including Mobil, Amsoil, etc) do not reveal their secrets just because you might want to buy a few quarts of their oils. The proof is on the race track. When you race and rebuild engine on a regular basis then may be you will understand what good oil such as Redline, Amsoil, and RP means. If all you drive is a Toyota Corolla then by all means stick with the API stuffs on sale at $1/quart.
I am willing to bet that the general consensus opinion of Redline at the race track is that it is NOT similar to most other synthetics. Consensus opinion of bench racers, grandmas, and specs readers like yourselves is another matter.
(1) I believe there is more criticism of unthinking boosterism of Redline than of the oil itself. But I believe this is the case for any oil discussed on BITOG, Redline has not been singled out. There is generally little patience here for claims that cannot be substantiated regardless of manufacturer.
(2) The second area of criticism is more about Redline's exaggerated and often misleading marketing claims, which can sometimes be reminscent of snake oil sales pitches. But again, I believe this sort of criticism occurs on BITOG for all oils from all manufacturers. It's that the bigger the claim and the less the data to back it up, the more pointed the criticism will be.
If you look past those two areas of criticism, I think you'll find the consensus opinion of Redline to be similar to that of most other synthetics - generally a good oil, better for some applications than others.
I do have data to backup Redline claims but sadly you don't want to pay to play. My offer still stands, put up or step off. Manufacturers (including Mobil, Amsoil, etc) do not reveal their secrets just because you might want to buy a few quarts of their oils. The proof is on the race track. When you race and rebuild engine on a regular basis then may be you will understand what good oil such as Redline, Amsoil, and RP means. If all you drive is a Toyota Corolla then by all means stick with the API stuffs on sale at $1/quart.
I am willing to bet that the general consensus opinion of Redline at the race track is that it is NOT similar to most other synthetics. Consensus opinion of bench racers, grandmas, and specs readers like yourselves is another matter.
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