Red Line oil and BITOG?
- Thread starter AzFireGuy79
- Start date
- Status
I have Redline in my motorhome's generator, which is a Generac V-twin air cooled engine. It probably will get a couple changes of Amsoil next just because I have some Amsoil PAO on my shelves.
Redline motor oil for most applications is like having a 20 foot ladder to climb out of a 6 foot hole. I like to go to the boat drags because I like being able to see the rebuilds occur on the top fuel engines between rounds .All the engines look about the same no matter what oil is used.
Originally Posted By: jpr
Originally Posted By: azpathetic
Do you think Joe Gibbs will give out his oil development data for free if you ask him?
Actually, you don't even have to ask him - they've already posted a boatload of technical data on their website, where it's FREE. http://www.joegibbsracingoil.com/trainingcenter/index.html
That is not the oil development data, just a conclusion. Oil development data are for examples dyno results, engine built specs, tear down specs, fuel type and setting, etc. They actually had an R&D contract to develop the oil, spent millions since then to refine the blend, and sell them to other NASCAR teams. Now, why would a NASCAR team want to develop their own oil when they can have any oil available to them by pretty much any manufacturer in the world?
Originally Posted By: azpathetic
Do you think Joe Gibbs will give out his oil development data for free if you ask him?
Actually, you don't even have to ask him - they've already posted a boatload of technical data on their website, where it's FREE. http://www.joegibbsracingoil.com/trainingcenter/index.html
That is not the oil development data, just a conclusion. Oil development data are for examples dyno results, engine built specs, tear down specs, fuel type and setting, etc. They actually had an R&D contract to develop the oil, spent millions since then to refine the blend, and sell them to other NASCAR teams. Now, why would a NASCAR team want to develop their own oil when they can have any oil available to them by pretty much any manufacturer in the world?
Originally Posted By: Steve S
...I like to go to the boat drags because I like being able to see the rebuilds occur on the top fuel engines between rounds .All the engines look about the same no matter what oil is used.
I highly doubt your eyes can see a cam lobe that has worn down 0.020". Translating this cam lobe wear into a NASCAR engine power output would be around 10-15hp. Do you know what 10hp means to a race team?
...I like to go to the boat drags because I like being able to see the rebuilds occur on the top fuel engines between rounds .All the engines look about the same no matter what oil is used.
I highly doubt your eyes can see a cam lobe that has worn down 0.020". Translating this cam lobe wear into a NASCAR engine power output would be around 10-15hp. Do you know what 10hp means to a race team?
You will not receive data of any value from a well funded engine program. Customers don’t get it and you won’t either. It won't happen. You'll receive common knowledge, promotional information and noise. NASCAR engine programs are very expensive an as Cotton Owens once said, there are engine builders that would sell their Grandmother into a whore house for 5 more horse power going down the back straight.
This was my whole point to jpr and others is that they will not get the data they are looking for without paying.
Quote:
I highly doubt your eyes can see a cam lobe that has worn down 0.020"
This is a huge number in manufacturing. Well within visual detection range.
I highly doubt your eyes can see a cam lobe that has worn down 0.020"
This is a huge number in manufacturing. Well within visual detection range.
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
This was my whole point to jpr and others is that they will not get the data they are looking for without paying.
Another good example of bozo logic.
The only person that has been discussing engine development data is you. Nobody has ever suggested any engine or oil manufacturer/blender/builder would provide the data. The only point you've proved is regarding your method of dodging questions by posing and answering your own straw-man arguments, hoping nobody will notice your utter and complete inability to technically substantiate any claim you've ever made.
The real icing on the cake though is the suggestion that you have but are withholding technical data because it is on a comparable level to that of a NASCAR team or an oil blender/manufacturer. Many of your posts never rise above the level of pathetically childish, but this is true comic genius.
This was my whole point to jpr and others is that they will not get the data they are looking for without paying.
Another good example of bozo logic.
The only person that has been discussing engine development data is you. Nobody has ever suggested any engine or oil manufacturer/blender/builder would provide the data. The only point you've proved is regarding your method of dodging questions by posing and answering your own straw-man arguments, hoping nobody will notice your utter and complete inability to technically substantiate any claim you've ever made.
The real icing on the cake though is the suggestion that you have but are withholding technical data because it is on a comparable level to that of a NASCAR team or an oil blender/manufacturer. Many of your posts never rise above the level of pathetically childish, but this is true comic genius.
Originally Posted By: jpr
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
This was my whole point to jpr and others is that they will not get the data they are looking for without paying.
Another good example of bozo logic.
The only person that has been discussing engine development data is you. Nobody has ever suggested any engine or oil manufacturer/blender/builder would provide the data. The only point you've proved is regarding your method of dodging questions by posing and answering your own straw-man arguments, hoping nobody will notice your utter and complete inability to technically substantiate any claim you've ever made.
The real icing on the cake though is the suggestion that you have but are withholding technical data because it is on a comparable level to that of a NASCAR team or an oil blender/manufacturer. Many of your posts never rise above the level of pathetically childish, but this is true comic genius.
You are the one that has been searching for info on Redline oil and claims that since there is none that the oil is no good. Go back and read your own posts and see how little you know about oil, engine, racing, etc. Bench racers like yourselves can only troll until someone provide technical data to your satisfaction. Well the data ain't free so put up or step off. May be I should ask if you know what step off means????
Any more question such as "how can you destroy the oil if the cooling system is perfect?". Hahahaha, clueless.
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
This was my whole point to jpr and others is that they will not get the data they are looking for without paying.
Another good example of bozo logic.
The only person that has been discussing engine development data is you. Nobody has ever suggested any engine or oil manufacturer/blender/builder would provide the data. The only point you've proved is regarding your method of dodging questions by posing and answering your own straw-man arguments, hoping nobody will notice your utter and complete inability to technically substantiate any claim you've ever made.
The real icing on the cake though is the suggestion that you have but are withholding technical data because it is on a comparable level to that of a NASCAR team or an oil blender/manufacturer. Many of your posts never rise above the level of pathetically childish, but this is true comic genius.
You are the one that has been searching for info on Redline oil and claims that since there is none that the oil is no good. Go back and read your own posts and see how little you know about oil, engine, racing, etc. Bench racers like yourselves can only troll until someone provide technical data to your satisfaction. Well the data ain't free so put up or step off. May be I should ask if you know what step off means????
Any more question such as "how can you destroy the oil if the cooling system is perfect?". Hahahaha, clueless.
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Quote:
I highly doubt your eyes can see a cam lobe that has worn down 0.020"
This is a huge number in manufacturing. Well within visual detection range.
Only if you have a reference point. There is no way that you can tell if a cam lobe is 0.020" off by just watching some one tear down an engine.
Quote:
I highly doubt your eyes can see a cam lobe that has worn down 0.020"
This is a huge number in manufacturing. Well within visual detection range.
Only if you have a reference point. There is no way that you can tell if a cam lobe is 0.020" off by just watching some one tear down an engine.
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Quote:
I highly doubt your eyes can see a cam lobe that has worn down 0.020"
This is a huge number in manufacturing. Well within visual detection range.
Only if you have a reference point. There is no way that you can tell if a cam lobe is 0.020" off by just watching some one tear down an engine.
.020 wear is huge on the top of a cam lobe. That would wear through the finishing of the cam and would stand out like a sore thumb. I know what cams are supposed to look like from experience .I am not an internet expert.
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Quote:
I highly doubt your eyes can see a cam lobe that has worn down 0.020"
This is a huge number in manufacturing. Well within visual detection range.
Only if you have a reference point. There is no way that you can tell if a cam lobe is 0.020" off by just watching some one tear down an engine.
.020 wear is huge on the top of a cam lobe. That would wear through the finishing of the cam and would stand out like a sore thumb. I know what cams are supposed to look like from experience .I am not an internet expert.
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
You are the one that has been searching for info on Redline oil and claims that since there is none that the oil is no good. Go back and read your own posts and see how little you know about oil, engine, racing, etc. Bench racers like yourselves can only troll until someone provide technical data to your satisfaction. Well the data ain't free so put up or step off. May be I should ask if you know what step off means????
Any more question such as "how can you destroy the oil if the cooling system is perfect?". Hahahaha, clueless.
Actually, I'm the one who actually knows something about Redline oil beyond their marketing literature.
As for your second point, I direct you here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetorical_question
You are the one that has been searching for info on Redline oil and claims that since there is none that the oil is no good. Go back and read your own posts and see how little you know about oil, engine, racing, etc. Bench racers like yourselves can only troll until someone provide technical data to your satisfaction. Well the data ain't free so put up or step off. May be I should ask if you know what step off means????
Any more question such as "how can you destroy the oil if the cooling system is perfect?". Hahahaha, clueless.
Actually, I'm the one who actually knows something about Redline oil beyond their marketing literature.
As for your second point, I direct you here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetorical_question
Well, this is terribly embarrassing, but I have to admit being caught in one of azpathetic's argumentive traps.
He posted an implication that I had stated "how can you destroy the oil if the cooling system is perfect?". I replied in haste without noting that I have never made such a statement. The issue came up in regards to higher ambient temperature requiring a higher temperature tolerant engine oil.
The threads in questions are here, and I will let the record speak for itself -
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/experience-with-redline-oil.83423/
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/experience-with-redline-oil.83423/
He posted an implication that I had stated "how can you destroy the oil if the cooling system is perfect?". I replied in haste without noting that I have never made such a statement. The issue came up in regards to higher ambient temperature requiring a higher temperature tolerant engine oil.
The threads in questions are here, and I will let the record speak for itself -
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/experience-with-redline-oil.83423/
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/experience-with-redline-oil.83423/
The original post as to why people are down on Redline...
It is expensive, and a lot of people want to justify the extra expense before spending the money.
There are a lot of folks here who shop for oil deals......and live for the closeout table and Buy One Get One sales.
They ususally have specific brands that they look for.....and get some great deals on some great oil.
I am sure that they have great service from the oil that they buy.
These are NOT people that you are going to see buying much Redline oil.
I have used Redline, in my unqualified opinion, I think that Redline is a good oil.
Do I think that it serves my average motor well.....yes.
Do I think that it is overkill for my own application.....YES.
If I had a turbo charged engine......Redline would be on my short list.
As I stated before.....there are a lot of excellent oils out there.
Most of the miles that I put on my motor were with Mobil 1.
I got great service from it.....my engine was super clean inside (as viewed through the oil fill cap and as viewed when I removed the lower intake manifold to replace the gaskets).
There are a lot of posts putting Mobil 1 down.
Would I still recommend Mobil 1 to my friends?....yes.
The bottom line of the posts about Mobil 1 have been that it is expensive for what you get......More GrpIII and less PAO is suspected.
But....let's not change this to a Mobil 1 post....that is not my point.
The point is.....when people say that they have an issue with an oil......read what the issue is....often it is not an issue of whether the oil will perform in the average motor....but a discussion on the chemistry of the oil....
As one can see in various posts on this forum......some people are very defensive about their particular chosen brand and/or methods.
There are a lot of great posts on this forum by people who know their stuff, reading and posting on this form will get you some great information that will help you choose a great oil for your application.
It is expensive, and a lot of people want to justify the extra expense before spending the money.
There are a lot of folks here who shop for oil deals......and live for the closeout table and Buy One Get One sales.
They ususally have specific brands that they look for.....and get some great deals on some great oil.
I am sure that they have great service from the oil that they buy.
These are NOT people that you are going to see buying much Redline oil.
I have used Redline, in my unqualified opinion, I think that Redline is a good oil.
Do I think that it serves my average motor well.....yes.
Do I think that it is overkill for my own application.....YES.
If I had a turbo charged engine......Redline would be on my short list.
As I stated before.....there are a lot of excellent oils out there.
Most of the miles that I put on my motor were with Mobil 1.
I got great service from it.....my engine was super clean inside (as viewed through the oil fill cap and as viewed when I removed the lower intake manifold to replace the gaskets).
There are a lot of posts putting Mobil 1 down.
Would I still recommend Mobil 1 to my friends?....yes.
The bottom line of the posts about Mobil 1 have been that it is expensive for what you get......More GrpIII and less PAO is suspected.
But....let's not change this to a Mobil 1 post....that is not my point.
The point is.....when people say that they have an issue with an oil......read what the issue is....often it is not an issue of whether the oil will perform in the average motor....but a discussion on the chemistry of the oil....
As one can see in various posts on this forum......some people are very defensive about their particular chosen brand and/or methods.
There are a lot of great posts on this forum by people who know their stuff, reading and posting on this form will get you some great information that will help you choose a great oil for your application.
Originally Posted By: wiswind
As one can see in various posts on this forum......some people are very defensive about their particular chosen brand and/or methods.
Exactly - who would have thought the rather innocuous conclusion of "...I think you'll find the consensus opinion of Redline to be similar to that of most other synthetics - generally a good oil, better for some applications than others" would spur such bile?
As one can see in various posts on this forum......some people are very defensive about their particular chosen brand and/or methods.
Exactly - who would have thought the rather innocuous conclusion of "...I think you'll find the consensus opinion of Redline to be similar to that of most other synthetics - generally a good oil, better for some applications than others" would spur such bile?
- Status
Similar threads
