Red Line D6 ATF

Pablo · May 2, 2007

Quote:

Based on your discussion above (and other threads) seems like you think additive companies & OEM's are enjoying the disparity in the ATF industry .

I didn't say this - but to think a company with their life blood (no pun intended) being lubricants can't do better at ATF than an OEM is perhaps naive or wishful thinking. Again - don't get me wrong. For example, the folks GM hired and consulted with/for and on the develop Dexron VI (Whitewolf, Lubeman(?)) - brilliant! Monumental achievement! But to say this fluid can not be improved, or that there will never, ever be a better fluid.....Yeah, well I guess my degree in Chemistry, my R&D experience, all the people I've known are worthless......because I'm now a lowly sales harpy.

GMorg · May 2, 2007

Whitewolf wrote: "The so called 'Universal' fluids are in my opinion nothing more than cobbled together compromise products backed only by marketing hype"

Perhaps I do not understand the word "Universal" in this context, but there have been many fluids on the market with multiple approvals. I am sure we can identifiy several MerconV/DexIII fluids that were lisenced for both specs. A fluid can clearly be designed for multiple applications and simultaineously have OEM approvals. Just because a fluid is not dedicated to a single specification does not mean that is a "cobbled together compromise ... backed only by marketing hype in an attempt to mislead"

I grant that Redline does not claim any approval. Perhaps D6 is "cobbled together". However, where is the language that should lead us to fear that we will be misled?

LubeMan · May 2, 2007

By restricting - I meant the earlier service fluid specifications Dexron III spec was broad enough that a truck would go through it. Dexron VI is based on single additive approval and if you combine other test requirements - it really restricts the type of baseoil that can be used too.

Japanese have started service fluids programs ?? I have to admit I was not aware of the same, can you provide details (who ? spec details ?) ...maybe we can get an approval..there is more money in selling products which meet Japanese claims anyway..LOL

ConfederateTyrant · May 2, 2007

Most of the opposers of Amsoil, Redline, and Mobil 1 ATFs are appearing to have never used the products. Which means that your credibility is based on absolutely nothing. It's one thing to bash a fluid that you used and it was truly awful, and it's another thing to bash a fluid because it isn't "approved" or because it's "universal."

OEMs are nothing more than cheap b*****ds in my opinion. That's based on the cheapness of parts compared to the aftermarket, underfilled fluids, and faulty design.

buster · May 2, 2007

From what I understand, and many of you would know more about this than I would, Amsoil works closely with the additive suppliers. In doing so, couldn't they theoretically make as good of a fluid or even better? Amsoil isn't above anyone in terms of formulation. The additive companies do most of all the R&D and therefore assist Amsoil is what they are trying to achieve. No?

Tempest · May 2, 2007

This is getting ridiculous. Pretty much ALL the majors (Pennzoil, Valvoline, Mobil, Castrol, Nippon, etc.) make universal fluids that are not licensed...and oh yah Amsoil and Redline. WHO exactly makes OEM fluid? Ford, DC, GM?? Noooo... Mobil, Nippon...etc. Do you think they know something about what is required in an OEM fluid?

And I don't see too many people complaining about the quality of the motor oils/gears lubes of smaller producers either. Just ATFs. Why is this so different or hard?

Max_Wander · May 2, 2007

I'd choose redline over "OEM spec" fluid, knowing that it performs better. LubeMan, should i need WARRANTY SERVICE on a transmission simply because of POE fluid being used, then you can butter me up and call me Susan...

Gary Allan · May 2, 2007

Quote:

This is getting ridiculous. Pretty much ALL the majors (Pennzoil, Valvoline, Mobil, Castrol, Nippon, etc.) make universal fluids that are not licensed...and oh yah Amsoil and Redline. WHO exactly makes OEM fluid? Ford, DC, GM?? Noooo... Mobil, Nippon...etc. Do you think they know something about what is required in an OEM fluid?

That about sums up my response. XOM sells universal fluid and any number of other (anything but Amsoil) blender/refiners. Yet only the niche producers are lame and incapable of doing it right.

Maybe it's because they're not competitive on a mass distribution basis ..or aren't available at heavy discount at WM. For some reason, mass availability ..and a cheaper price appear to ADD credibility to the "cobbled together" offerings.

Go figure

unDummy · May 2, 2007

Yep, most of the opposing have never used or tested the boutique fluids. And, if they work for an OEM, licensing is what prevents their paychecks from bouncing.

The warranty argument is also meaningless. That's being beat to he1l. If something fails under warranty, its because the OEM engineering is inadequate. Doesn't say much for those pushing those OEM fluids. Get off your butts, get out of your cubicle, look into the real world, and fix that inferiority that every new vehicle ships with.

I guess that DexronVI is a cobbled together ATF when its backspec'd for all those trannies originally filled with III. So, hyprocrisy is accepatable for OEM, but not for any other company producing something superior. I also guess that OEM marketing hype is OK.
Looking at other multi-spec'd fluids, ATF+4 must also be a cobble together marketing hype ATF when compared to ATF+3. I wonder if the same can be said about Mercon-V when compared to Mercon

Depending on volume of sales and whether a brand is a blender or rebrander, those licensing fees add between $.50-$2.00 to each quart sold. I'd rather put my money into the boutique companies pushing the tech. Why bother with OEM's that are a decade or 2 behind? OEM's play catch up, and think that their the 'cats meow'. Thats pathetic.

Whitewolf · May 3, 2007

I only use what is recommended. So while some of you guys may not agree with my opinions at least I practise what I preach.
The only experience I have with a Mobil 1 product was in my BMW engine and that experience proved to be very good.

LubeMan · May 3, 2007

Have used unlicensed product and still use licensed product and know the difference...hence the recommendation of using approved fluid (which also applies to ExxonMobil, Pennzoil etc branded products too and not just Amsoil products).

wiswind · May 3, 2007

As noted, Redline has the D6 ATF listed on their website.
They do not include it in the side-by-side comparison of detailed specifications.

The DO, however, list the recommended applications for this fluid.

For my FORD that originally called for Mercon, the correct fluid for my application would be the Redline D4, which meets the Mercon / Mercon V specification.

Mercon SP, as listed in the specifications for Redline D6, is a different specification, for a different application than mine.
This is as per FORD TSB # 06-14-4 Released on 07/24/2006

In a nutshell......to see if a newer specification is correct for your vehicle.....look for TSB's released for your vehicle that update the original specification listing given in the owner's manual, etc.

Also....Using Redline or Amsoil "recommended" for your specification requirement will NOT void any warranty, unless that fluid specifically caused the failure.
In my case.....my 11 year old vehicle with 183K miles is beyond a prayer of any warranty coverage.

I currently have Redline D4 in my tranny.
I had it on Mobil 1 ATF up until this spring....and it worked great for me also.

I would NOT go for an extended change interval beyond what the manufacture's specified interval is for the transmission fluid.

MonumentOiler · May 5, 2007

Quote:

Japanese have started service fluids programs ?? I have to admit I was not aware of the same, can you provide details (who ? spec details ?) ...maybe we can get an approval..there is more money in selling products which meet Japanese claims anyway..LOL

I mean they are no longer piggybacking off of the GM standards and instead generating their own proprietary standards (Honda Z1, Toyota T-IV and WS). They aren't licensing their products but forcing consumers to the dealers for fluids.

With GM discontinuing the DIII licensing program what should owners of vehicles designed, built and proven with DIII go to now. An unlicensed "recommended/suitable for" DIII type fluid or a new D6 fluid that even though different from the fluid their vehicle was designed for has been licensed by GM. In this case it sounds like D6 is the claimed better but unproven product.

If D6's specifications were more performance based rather than formula based then the license would have more value.

MonumentOiler · Sep 2, 2007

Redline has updated their ATF product information.

"Synthetic D6 ATF is suitable for use in the new Dexron VI applications, Mercon SP, or Toyota WS fluids are recommended. The D6 ATF is a lower viscosity version of
the D4ATF and is designed for better fuel efficiency in CAFE testing. Dexron VI requires a different approach to conventional ATF formulation. Rather than beginning
with a 7.5 cSt fluid and allowing a viscosity loss in use to drop to 5.5 cSt, the Dexron VI fluid requires a starting viscosity of less than 6.4 and a final drop to no less than
5.5 cSt. Red Line D6 will drop to no less than 6.1 cSt. Since the final viscosity after use of these fluids are similar, Dexron VI fluids can be used where Dexron III fluids
were previously recommended.The D6 ATF also provides significantly improved gear protection and will provide a GL-4 level of gear protection, making it a superior
product for transmissions and transaxles. The balanced frictional characteristics provides smooth and consistent shifts for extended drain intervals. The superior stability
compared to petroleum ATFs allows high-temperature operation without varnishing valves and clutches which leads to transmission failure."

http://www.redlineoil.com/pdf/3.pdf

MikeR · Sep 2, 2007

Quote:

This is getting ridiculous. Pretty much ALL the majors (Pennzoil, Valvoline, Mobil, Castrol, Nippon, etc.) make universal fluids that are not licensed...and oh yah Amsoil and Redline. WHO exactly makes OEM fluid? Ford, DC, GM?? Noooo... Mobil, Nippon...etc. Do you think they know something about what is required in an OEM fluid?

And I don't see too many people complaining about the quality of the motor oils/gears lubes of smaller producers either. Just ATFs. Why is this so different or hard?

The difference is that in most cases, the motor oils and gear lubes of the smaller producers in question meet the manufacturers' requirements for their respective applications.

The first question a service tech will ask me in the event of a potential powertrain warranty claim is if I've filled with other than GM-approved ATF. As my truck is a 2007, anything other than DexVI is non-approved. An oil producer's assertion that their product "is recommended" for use in the application is ethically in a grey area - the product is specifically not recommended by the manufacturer.

Red Line D6 ATF

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