Red Line 15w40 Diesel

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We all "think about it".

VOAs are intersting; they predict the possibilities via theory.
But UOAs are telling; they report results that are historical and factual.

I'll take UOAs over VOAs any day. And there are hundreds of UOAs that show, for most circumstances, the performance of RL (and RP for that matter) do not return the investment on a proportional scale. You can get similar (or at times, even "better") wear results from lesser investments.

To spend more money and get a good ROI is smart; to waste more money on poor ROI is foolish.

To each his own, but that's what I think.
 
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My little 5.9 Cummins is turned up to 700lb/ft, but is only pushed on hills pulling my 13,000 5th wheel. By ring gear looks like [censored], and will be replaced soon. On my 3rd NV4500. I agree 3/4tons are turned up to whatever, they'll go thru lots of trans/diffs if they're doing it "all day". BTW, i'm at 260K miles on walmart oil and fram filters its whole life. Never touched the engine except for water pump. 21MPG, no consumption.
 
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
We all "think about it".

VOAs are intersting; they predict the possibilities via theory.
But UOAs are telling; they report results that are historical and factual.

I'll take UOAs over VOAs any day. And there are hundreds of UOAs that show, for most circumstances, the performance of RL (and RP for that matter) do not return the investment on a proportional scale. You can get similar (or at times, even "better") wear results from lesser investments.

To spend more money and get a good ROI is smart; to waste more money on poor ROI is foolish.

To each his own, but that's what I think.


Oh no, you used reason.
 
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
And there are hundreds of UOAs that show, for most circumstances, the performance of RL (and RP for that matter) do not return the investment on a proportional scale. You can get similar (or at times, even "better") wear results from lesser investments.


Depends on how you interpret UOAs. RL has shown time and time again that once you let the chemistry settle in it does exceptionally well in engines that are notoriously hard on oil.
 
what the heck...these computers at work are sub standard. Admin please delete 689 and 690.
 
YEs and both UOA's and VOA's will never bring you any closer to finding which oil is better. We know that a UOA can not be relied on to predict wear for the casual user.

Unless you are Doug Hillary, your UOA means NOTHING. It's a useless piece of paper other than maybe catching a underlying problem and for determining OCI's with a given oil brand/type.

I am really blown away that you are still saying UOA's are showing engine wear. No doubt there are other good choices, but to say lesser oils have less wear than RL and basing that of off UOA's is ridiculous.
 
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It's not rediculous. It's reasonable and proven science. Allow me to explain. And I'll admit that I'm not a paid tribologist. I'm not Doug or Terry. But I am a statistical process quality control engineer, so I do have some fairly good basis for understanding the methodology involved.

I'd be the first to agree that one UOA does not prove much, but many successive UOAs can show trends and ranges that will announce abnormal wear.

RL and RP tend to have greater wear metal numbers in a UOA. They will claim that it's "chemistry" based reactions; they could be right. But the problem with inherrently high wear numbers as a base-line is the ability of those same high readings to mask and/or obscure events that would be easily recongnizable with lower "normal" readings. The magnitude of the ppm change due to some event can be shaded by the % of change. Products like RP and RL mask those numbers because they carry high residual nubmers. That's just plain old math; you can't argue that. Yet RP and RL will tell you that's "normal". Perhaps, but only from their perspective. I would prefer my wear metal counts to be as low as possible, allowing for immediate identification of subtle changes.

Further, it depends upon how you want to argue the point of "wear". There is big wear from major events, and there's small wear. But size of particles and % of particles are not always the same thing. A UOA can tell us PPM, but not the size of the particles. RL and RP would have us believe that higher chemistry wear will be mistaken for true wear. But where I come from, the shedding of particles it typically just "wear", regardless of it's origin. If a dog poops in your yard, are you going to argue about it's size and origin? It's undesireable, regardless of where it came from or how big it is. Regarding chemical wear, it's still metal components shedding particles from their place of origin. I don't care if they are big or small; I don't want them leaving the bearing, the cylinder, the crank or whatever. In that sense, high wear PPM counts from RL or RP indicates that there is metal leaving metal.

I completely acknowledge and agree that teardown analysis is the only TRUE way to know how well a lubricant has done. But that process presumes that:
1) you have used that same fluid brand/grade for a long period, to exclude other variants.
2) you have (nearly) unlimited time, money and resouces to tear down your engine, tranny, diff, or whatever.

For most of us, a UOA gives reasonable insight into the world of lubricants, if we understand their benefits and their limitations. UOAs are NOT the panacea of lube knowledge, but they are a supporting chunk of it. UOAs can directly advise you of your lubricant health, and indirectly advise you of your equipment health.

This whole thread started because someone (an admitted synethic junkie) want's affirmation of his use of RL. They want to know if 10k miles on a PSD is doable. Well - maybe so, maybe not. A UOA should be able to tell him. My point is that a VOA only predicts how the oil might behave; UOAs tell you how it actually performed. Looking at some VOAs or PDFs is not near as informational as seeing UOAs.

UOAs can certainly show wear. And at times it's not "normal" wear, but catastrophic wear. I recall a post on another site where we helped diagnose a problem with grossly high wear numbers. The poor chap had plumbed his Amsoil bypass system backwards, and was getting nearly zero flow to the engine! Here, a UOA certainly was instrumental in quickly pointing to a problem outside the contribution of oil itself, but the oil was the "carrier" of the information.

Perahps that better defines my view.
 
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I stayed at a Holiday in express last night
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Analysis is very important in my world especially looking at fuel dilution aids in diagnosing Injector cups or Injector oring issues. I'm not near smart enough to tell exactly whats going on by a sample but I do agree their are advantages to doing UOA
 
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Understandable but a UOA wont as we all know show you which oil is better or as I have stated above, which oil provides less wear. Its just not possible with a few UOA's. When talking just WEAR, unless you are Doug Hillary as I have previously stated your UOA is merely for other indicators. You might as well send your $32 dollars to your favorite charity if your end goal is to see which oil is better wear wise! There it would actually do something......
 
On some level, a UOA does provide some indications of wear. And there are entire industries built around this concept. Is it a "sure thing"? No. But it's a darn good indicator.

Further, how an oil deals with "other issues" such as fuel contamination and moisture condensation, how well does it hold soot/insolubles in suspension, it's resistance against oxidation? These can certainly play into a decision of "which oil is better".

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I see merit in their use.
 
I see great merit in their use and have worked for companies that used them like religion, but to form a trend for the long haul. Running 5K on brand A then running another 5K on brand B, the another 5K on brand C does not tell you anything for comparison, unless somewhere during that 15K fun you spring a coolant leak.
 
Perhaps we're in closer agreement, then.

This is from my post in the previous page ...

"I'd be the first to agree that one UOA does not prove much, but many successive UOAs can show trends and ranges that will announce abnormal wear."
 
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The PPE Duramax system is retails for 869.00. Their are not alot of these systems around yet. The idea hasn't hit the lightduty diesel to much yet.
 
Originally Posted By: ccdhowell
I just bought an '07 F250 with the 6.0L Powerstroke. As an oil nut will do, I immediately started to get up to speed on what diesel oils were out there. I am an incureable synthetic nut and it seems to me that the turbo on this engine demands the use of a synthetic oil. Anywone ever run the Red Line 15w40 Diesel oil? How well did it work? Can you go 10K miles on it in a vehicle that often tows a heavy trailer? Thanks
What about the millions of semitrucks that live long lives using dino HDEOS?
 
Originally Posted By: 951Indy
My little 5.9 Cummins is turned up to 700lb/ft, but is only pushed on hills pulling my 13,000 5th wheel. By ring gear looks like [censored], and will be replaced soon. On my 3rd NV4500. I agree 3/4tons are turned up to whatever, they'll go thru lots of trans/diffs if they're doing it "all day". BTW, i'm at 260K miles on walmart oil and fram filters its whole life. Never touched the engine except for water pump. 21MPG, no consumption.
Like most of the pickup trucks with diesel engines,,,, strong engines weak trucks!!!
 
Originally Posted By: DieselTech
" A dodge is nothing but a shipping crate for a Cummins "


lol
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that was my thought exactly when I bought my Ram 10 years ago, but over the years have turned sweet on the truck too
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