Red Line 15w40 Diesel

[LateArrivalforLSU]

Red Line's diesel oil is sub par. One of the poorest performers that I've seen in diesel engine UOA's. VOA's don't mean jack...show me how they perform in real world tests (a UOA).

Give me Mobil Delvac dino or Delo dino and I'll show you a top performing HDEO.

 

[BobFout]

Got links showing Redline 15w40 along with a dino 15w40 in the same engine under the same conditions?

A top performing HDEO is a synthetic 5w40 or 15w40

(hope it doesn't get too cold out with a dino 15w40

)

 

[dnewton3]

Here's a great UOA that I personally experienced, with a dino 10w-30 HDEO. Just how much "better" do you think any fluid would have performed over the Rotella??? Used year round, too.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1628772#Post1628772

I challenge anyone to show me a UOA where they ran 6k miles, 50% of that pulling a travel trailer through the hills of PA, and they got "better" wear protection with a synthetic, or bypass filtration. My numbers are so low, that to have "less" wear would essentially mean that there was NO wear. I doubt you'd find numbers lower than mine. And, all for $9/gallon on a Wix filter.

 

[BobFout]

That's one UOA. What did we see 30K miles on either side of that UOA? Have UOAs from miles with your normal daily commute?

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: turbodieselfreak
I am a HUGE fan of redline products, but with the frequency of breakdowns with my 2004 6.0 (2003 MY engine), I have decided it no longer deserves the benefit of an oil that expensive. FWIW, cold starts are smoother with delvac 1, and surprisingly, even more so with rotella syn. In my case, I believe the HPOP and injector components are getting "tired", hence the improved cold start behavior with 5w40, along with better turbo response. Redline 5w40 wasn't listed as a diesel app until recently, so I haven't tried it, but I'm sure it would be fine. I won't spend the $$$ anymore, as my truck is almost paid off and I intend to look at the new cummins plants if chrysler survives. My 6.0 no longer has a single original injector, all replaced under warranty. I'm looking for a smaller diesel, but the proposed 4.4L f150 is out. I refuse to buy an engine designed with timing belts.
Not to rub salt into your wound but the last two diesel engines Ford put in their trucks seem to make me say why put the big buck oils into something that will most likley get dumped before the warranty peroid ends?

 

[dnewton3]

True that is just one UOA, on a truck with only 20k miles on it, so it's the first UOA. However, I challenge anyone to show me a RL or RP UOA that has wear numbers lower than that, with that kind of use. Note that this is not a daily commuter truck; I outline it's use in the posts.

To me, for a top-end product to be "worth it", the performance gain has to be at least equal to the expenditure, for my consideration. In other words, if RP or RL would likely cost 4x more money, would I get 4x less wear for that same 6k mile exposure? No way; we all know that.

What I MIGHT get is 4x longer OCI, perhaps. But that's assuming one could drive far enough, for long enough, to get the pay back. Unfortunately, I average right at 7k miles a year in the truck. Per my warranty, I cannot OCI past the 1 year mark. So, why would I want to spend 4x more money, to get what would likely be the same results?

We could argue about tear down analysis, but that's an easy cop-out for those that want an escape route. Because none of us are going to do a tear down on our vehicles. It's simply not cost effective. But UOAs can be reasonably effective. They are a direct view of lubricant health, and an indirect view of equipmnet health.

I'll stick with my dino HDEO OCIs for less than 10k miles. Very cost effective, and perform as well as any high-end PAO for my OCI plan.

 

[turbodieselfreak]

Originally Posted By: Steve S
Originally Posted By: turbodieselfreak
I am a HUGE fan of redline products, but with the frequency of breakdowns with my 2004 6.0 (2003 MY engine), I have decided it no longer deserves the benefit of an oil that expensive. FWIW, cold starts are smoother with delvac 1, and surprisingly, even more so with rotella syn. In my case, I believe the HPOP and injector components are getting "tired", hence the improved cold start behavior with 5w40, along with better turbo response. Redline 5w40 wasn't listed as a diesel app until recently, so I haven't tried it, but I'm sure it would be fine. I won't spend the $$$ anymore, as my truck is almost paid off and I intend to look at the new cummins plants if chrysler survives. My 6.0 no longer has a single original injector, all replaced under warranty. I'm looking for a smaller diesel, but the proposed 4.4L f150 is out. I refuse to buy an engine designed with timing belts.
Not to rub salt into your wound but the last two diesel engines Ford put in their trucks seem to make me say why put the big buck oils into something that will most likley get dumped before the warranty peroid ends?
Exactly why I quit with the redline. I've since replaced that truck with one of the last 5.9 cummins to roll off the line. I expect to hang on to this truck much longer (the way I intended to hang on to the 6.blow before its issues were known to the industry), so I might take a look at redline again someday.

 

[AzFireGuy79]

Why are you comparing Redline and RP??? Apples and oranges. What are your credentials with respect to UOA's? I see you constantly remarking on "tear down analysis" and how it's a cop-out yet there are those who have ventured down that path and come back with some pretty solid data. Doug Hilary comes to mind.

Granted we cannot do this in most applications but it proves you need to establish trend over many many miles to have a UOA become something more than an indicator of lubrincant health/imprending engine failure.

Being involved in the drag racing community I have spoken with several people who have used UOA's for years and many have shared stories of motors with clean UOA results that had substantial wear upon tear down. This makes you think about what a UOA is telling the casual user. IMO it is at times reponsible for a false sense of security and value from a given product.

 

[dnewton3]

Why compare RP and RL? Because they are both ultra-high-dollar synthetic products competing in the same niche market for the same customers. To most of us, that comparison makes sense. Apples to oranges - no. Oranges to tangerines - perhaps.

Further, I exclude "special" uses and circumstances from my comments, because I have little experience with them, and it means little, to nothing, to most of us. "Special" uses are race engines, drag racing, sled pulling, or street engines that are highly modified with tuner for ultra high HP and torque. Perhaps ultra premium fluids make sense for those uses.

But for most of us, dino HDEOs on routine OCIs are a great bargin, and the performance they put up is beyond reproach.

I'll agree and admit that we stand on opposite sides of the fence. It's hard to "prove" anything without a teardown and all the subsequent measurements. But there are millions of vehicles with high mileage that run nothing but dino fluids, and survive just fine. And UOAs are a proven methodology. You absolutely cannot "know" everything from a single UOA. But what you can do is get generalizations that allow you to track the extra-ordinary events that would otherwise go unnoticed. Those that race engines, and do frequent teardowns have the luxury of the full inspection. But most of us don't want the expense and downtime of such endeavors. So UOAs provide a reasonable view into the world of the equipment.

The OP questioned the rationale of 10k mile OCIs with RL. I see merit in them ONLY if he does successive UOAs, and sees the product pay for itself with longer OCIs. The problem comes along when the UOA resutls show PPM at (or sometimes even higher than) dino HDEO numbers for short-to-moderate OCIs. Where does that leave one to draw a conclusion? Do you believe for a second that this guy is going to tear down his 6.0L PSD to assure himself of the oil's performance every 10k miles? None of use believe that. So its down the UOA methodology road for him.

And when he gets back his UOAs and sees wear PPM that are no better, and likely higher than, a mass-market dino HDEO, where does he find his investment strategy? 4x the money for the same UOA results? No thanks.

I firmly and steadfasty believe that synthetics and bypass filtration have their proper uses; that of oil longevity. They don't make equipment last longer; they make the fluid last longer in service.

 

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted By: BobFout
That's one UOA. What did we see 30K miles on either side of that UOA? Have UOAs from miles with your normal daily commute?


We'll have to wait awhile...Dave doesn't drive the DMax much...

 

[dnewton3]

Patience is a virture, or so I'm told.

 

[LateArrivalforLSU]

Do a search in the HDEO UOA section. I've run Red Line in a Ford Diesel and a Cummins in the past. UOA's were underwhelming, even when trending Red Line. All other oils run showed very admirable results.

Not a fan of Red Line in normal situations. Unless Red Line has changed its' CJ4 formulation to wear better than its' past CJ4 oil, then I'll maintain that I'm flat out not a fan of Red Line.

I don't make a statement unless I have data that shows me why I would come to that said statement/conclusion. This case is no different for me.

 

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted By: Arkapigdiesel
Do a search in the HDEO UOA section. I've run Red Line in a Ford Diesel and a Cummins in the past. UOA's were underwhelming, even when trending Red Line. All other oils run showed very admirable results.

Not a fan of Red Line in normal situations. Unless Red Line has changed its' CJ4 formulation to wear better than its' past CJ4 oil, then I'll maintain that I'm flat out not a fan of Red Line.

I don't make a statement unless I have data that shows me why I would come to that said statement/conclusion. This case is no different for me.


But how do you feel about Rotella or Motorcraft in a Ford?

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: Arkapigdiesel
UOA's were underwhelming, even when trending Red Line. All other oils run showed very admirable results.


What was the scenario? How many OCIs did you sample with RL?

 

[LateArrivalforLSU]

Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: Arkapigdiesel
UOA's were underwhelming, even when trending Red Line. All other oils run showed very admirable results.


What was the scenario? How many OCIs did you sample with RL?

Typical scenario for me, which consists of a mix highway miles and in town driving (60/40 split if I were to guess). Minimal towing at the time.

I sampled enough to rule out the RL "cleaning" old oxidation of soft metals. I ran Amsoil HDD 5W-30 w/bypass filtration prior to the RL for many thousands of miles. Actually, with RL my soft metal & hard metals were both higher than normal. I've seen a number of UOA's on other diesel truck websites and the UOA's are just fair.

I would like to see a UOA of the new CJ4 formulation to see if it does a better job as a HDEO.

 

[LateArrivalforLSU]

Originally Posted By: D-Roc
Originally Posted By: Arkapigdiesel
Do a search in the HDEO UOA section. I've run Red Line in a Ford Diesel and a Cummins in the past. UOA's were underwhelming, even when trending Red Line. All other oils run showed very admirable results.

Not a fan of Red Line in normal situations. Unless Red Line has changed its' CJ4 formulation to wear better than its' past CJ4 oil, then I'll maintain that I'm flat out not a fan of Red Line.

I don't make a statement unless I have data that shows me why I would come to that said statement/conclusion. This case is no different for me.


But how do you feel about Rotella or Motorcraft in a Ford?

Hey, you forgot about Delo

 

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted By: Arkapigdiesel
Originally Posted By: D-Roc
Originally Posted By: Arkapigdiesel
Do a search in the HDEO UOA section. I've run Red Line in a Ford Diesel and a Cummins in the past. UOA's were underwhelming, even when trending Red Line. All other oils run showed very admirable results.

Not a fan of Red Line in normal situations. Unless Red Line has changed its' CJ4 formulation to wear better than its' past CJ4 oil, then I'll maintain that I'm flat out not a fan of Red Line.

I don't make a statement unless I have data that shows me why I would come to that said statement/conclusion. This case is no different for me.


But how do you feel about Rotella or Motorcraft in a Ford?

Hey, you forgot about Delo

I just wanted to hear any input from members who have used those oils...

 

[D-Roc]

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: Arkapigdiesel
I sampled enough to rule out the RL "cleaning" old oxidation of soft metals.


How many intervals?

 

[Sushibar]

Ok folks, here is my OPINION. I have a 2003 6.0l with 165000 km on it. With multiple warranty repairs and flashes my truck now runs consistent. Besides that I have taken a multiple of samples with different oils, some syn some not. I have used RL 15w40 this summer. Before I get to that I will list the oils I have tried. Texaco Ursa 15w40, 10w30, Delo 15w40 & 5w40, Delvac1 5w40, Royal Purple 15w40, Redline 15w40, Amsoil 15w40 & 5w30hdd, Rotella 15w40 & 10w30 & 5w40, Motorcraft 15w40 & 10w30.

My maximum OCI was 8000km, the average was around 7000KM.

Which one made my engine run the smoothest?
Delvac1 5w40, Rotella 5w40, Delo 5w40.

Which one had the worst UOA numbers compared to the average of MY SAMPLES.
Amsoil 5w30hdd, I never got to sample the Ams 15w40 as it went in for the "bed plate leak" and dumped the oil and changed with MC.

RP was similiar to the Amsoil 5w30. not impressed.

The dino's all showed similiar numbers with resepect to shear and wear, but my truck would run like [censored] close to the OCI.

Redline Sheared the least but I think we are splitting hairs here. It also had one of the highest oxidation numbers, similiar to the amsoil 5w30 hdd.


Using Bypass filtration with synthetics for extended drains on this vehicle to "maximize dollar cost averaging" is [censored].

The oil might be clean but the viscosity sucks after 7000 km anyways so what is the point. You will have piece of mind though if you change out at 7k with or with out syns.

Bypass is a great option.........on something that does not have HEUI. We have a Cat 3508,805hp 34L disp., direct injection(sounds like a locomotive) 210liter base with 2 centrifuges(bypass filtration) and my OCI is extended by 4x with dino oils and sampling. Delo 15w40

I'm not an analyst nor chemist, but call me educated.

Numbers are numbers and if you apply that to this engine the 6.0l , money saved by using syns with extended drains won't be an option becuas of the shear factor.

If you want above average numbers for wear stick to the original OCI with A 5w40, It seems to have stood up best against the rest.


Some were Ci4 when I first started testing then in the last 2 years CJ4. Was there a big enough difference I could see.? NO.

We are talking in PPM parts per million here, so If one of my samples jumps a bit, no biggie, but If it was to go from 20 ppm to 3000ppm on one of the tests I'd be concerned.

So from 20ppm to 60 or 80 is not really a problem. Sometimes we tend to overthink things.


Anyways that is my take like or not..

What is in my truck right now.? Delvac1 5w40 and I'm due for an oil change and guess what's going back in.


But I did put REDLINE 75w140 in my differential!