Changing from Red Line 15W-40 to another HDEO

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2017 F-350 Powerstroke... Since break-in, I've used Red Line 15W-40. Due to the expense, I'd like to switch to another oil but I'm concerned that the switch might result in a leak. As I understand it, Red Line might tend to swell seals more than other oils. Thoughts? Am I overthinking it? Thanks.
 
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There are several Ford approved oils available at WM for great prices. MC 10w30 or Rotella T5 10w30 work fantastic in these trucks.
 
Originally Posted by BillyE
2017 F-350 Powerstroke... Since break-in, I've used Red Line 15W-40. Due to the expense, I'd like to switch to another oil but I'm concerned that the switch might result in a leak. As I understand it, Red Line might tend to swell seals more than other oils. Thoughts? Am I overthinking it? Thanks.


IMO no problems switching brands, and the first time I switched brands in my Series 60 Detroit, I had concerns too.

I started the engine off on Mobil Delvac products, 15W40 Super and 10W30 Elite in the winter for approximately the first 180,000 miles. Due to greater availability I switched to Delo products, 15W40 LE then 15W40 SDE and I used Delo XLE 10W30 in the winter.

I noticed a slight bit of consumption when first switching from Delvac to Delo, but nothing major. My motor used roughly 1/2 gallon more than usual over 15,000 miles. After the first run on Delo, I had zero additional consumption after that. As I've read here the engine may (or may not) consume a little extra oil while it "adjusts" to the difference in additive packages between brands.

At approximately 340,000 miles I switched brands again. This time to Phillips 66 HDEOs. I use Guardol ECT 15W40 and Guardol ECT 10W30 now, and I noticed zero difference in consumption when I first switched.

Long story short, IMO no worries to switch brands.
 
The story about oil consumption immediately after switching is interesting. I wonder by what mechanism something like that could happen.

I'm in a climate where below freezing is unusual and below 20F is exceedingly rare. Over 100 is somewhat common. For this reason I'll probably go with a 15W-40. I'm leaning toward T4.
 
Based on the fuel dilution issues with the 6.7 combined with the questionable ancient DPF regeneration strategy of not using a 9th injector, I would keep using the Redline oil. The Renewable Lubricants 15w40 CJ-4 is also excellent and slightly cheaper than the Redline product.
 
Originally Posted by CleverUserName
Based on the fuel dilution issues with the 6.7 combined with the questionable ancient DPF regeneration strategy of not using a 9th injector, I would keep using the Redline oil. The Renewable Lubricants 15w40 CJ-4 is also excellent and slightly cheaper than the Redline product.


I appreciate the suggestion but what would make Redline preferable here?
 
Originally Posted by BillyE
Originally Posted by CleverUserName
Based on the fuel dilution issues with the 6.7 combined with the questionable ancient DPF regeneration strategy of not using a 9th injector, I would keep using the Redline oil. The Renewable Lubricants 15w40 CJ-4 is also excellent and slightly cheaper than the Redline product.


I appreciate the suggestion but what would make Redline preferable here?


Higher HTHS and higher base oil density of Group V oils like Redline and Renewable Lubricants resist fuel dilution and prevent wear better than other synthetics.
 
FWIW we currently have 3 2017+ trucks using quite a bit of oil all with 23k miles or less on them. They've been fed a diet of bulk 15w40 since new. Started using oil around 15k for all of them. These trucks also do see an enormous amount of regens due to the service they see and will likey have all three engines replaced under warranty.

My point is, I would run the oil you have had good results with. If that's redline, stick to it IMO
 
Well, you guys have given me something to think about. I have a stock of Redline so I'm in no hurry. More importantly...the delete question comes up more and more in my mind. I just have the extended warranty I really don't want to throw away.
 
Originally Posted by mattd
FWIW we currently have 3 2017+ trucks using quite a bit of oil all with 23k miles or less on them. They've been fed a diet of bulk 15w40 since new. Started using oil around 15k for all of them. These trucks also do see an enormous amount of regens due to the service they see and will likey have all three engines replaced under warranty.

My point is, I would run the oil you have had good results with. If that's redline, stick to it IMO


My old TDI also had the same DPF regeneration process as the 6.7s do. That engine would shed iron like crazy. I would have lots of iron on my magnetic drain plug and 80-100 PPM in the used oil analysis. I think when the injectors fire during the exhaust stroke to regen the DPF it washes off the oil from the cylinders which is the cause of the extra wear. I should have used an HDEO in that car if I knew what I know now. Very glad VW bought it back cause I don't think that engine would have lasted to 200K miles.

The newer diesels that use a dedicated injector prior to the DPF (Like GM and VW started doing in 2011 and 2015 respectively) are way more efficient and better for engine health. Ford needs to get their butt in gear and stop using 10+ year old technology to save a few bucks on manufacturing.
 
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Not to say this isn't true, but I'd think it would be easy to prove. Have you seen a 6.7 torn down? If this is true, then one cylinder bank would be much more worn.
 
Originally Posted by CleverUserName
Originally Posted by mattd
FWIW we currently have 3 2017+ trucks using quite a bit of oil all with 23k miles or less on them. They've been fed a diet of bulk 15w40 since new. Started using oil around 15k for all of them. These trucks also do see an enormous amount of regens due to the service they see and will likey have all three engines replaced under warranty.

My point is, I would run the oil you have had go
od results with. If that's redline, stick to it IMO


My old TDI also had the same DPF regeneration process as the 6.7s do. That engine would shed iron like crazy. I would have lots of iron on my magnetic drain plug and 80-100 PPM in the used oil analysis. I think when the injectors fire during the exhaust stroke to regen the DPF it washes off the oil from the cylinders which is the cause of the extra wear. I should have used an HDEO in that car if I knew what I know now. Very glad VW bought it back cause I don't think that engine would have lasted to 200K miles.

The newer diesels that use a dedicated injector prior to the DPF (Like GM and VW started doing in 2011 and 2015 respectively) are way more efficient and better for engine health. Ford needs to get their butt in gear and stop using 10+ year old technology to save a few bucks on manufacturing.


I would bet my hat that's what is happening. I'm sure this will happen again while these trucks are still under warranty since their service will not change. Ford is without a doubt behind the times with the the regen process. Cummins also uses the 7th injector for regen, at least on their ISX engines. I've been working on powerstrokes for the last 15 years and these latest ones are the only ones I've ever seen use this much oil. We even have a 2013 6.7 will all emissions in tact with 19000 + hours and doesn't use a drop of oil. These newer ones are using 2.5-3 quarts per 1000 miles with less than 3000 hrs. Programming seems to also be a problem because these newer trucks have to regen much but more than the older generation

I don't want to derail this thread any more so if you want to see more details of what's going on with these truck's I have a thread in the mechanical forum
 
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Originally Posted by BillyE
Not to say this isn't true, but I'd think it would be easy to prove. Have you seen a 6.7 torn down? If this is true, then one cylinder bank would be much more worn.


Cylinder washing and fuel dilution are common problems associated with the primitive strategy of using main injection to supply fuel for DPF regeneration. That is the main reason why most 6.4L powerstrokes have a major engine failure @ < 200K miles. Its a documented fact. Most manufacturers have moved away from it because it causes problems and shortens the service life of diesel engines. A thicker oil will help prevent the washing down of the cylinders during active regeneration. Or delete the truck and use whatever oil you want.
 
Ok, but I disagree that it's proven fact. The 6.7 regens by spraying on the exhaust stroke of only one bank. That bank doesn't change. This is my understanding. If that's true, and cylinder washing is really impacting wear patterns, there should be an abundant supply of documented tear downs showing one bank worn out and the other pristine. I haven't seen that. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just that I haven't seen it. Have you seen this, or do you feel like my reasoning is flawed?
 
Originally Posted by BillyE
Ok, but I disagree that it's proven fact. The 6.7 regens by spraying on the exhaust stroke of only one bank. That bank doesn't change. This is my understanding. If that's true, and cylinder washing is really impacting wear patterns, there should be an abundant supply of documented tear downs showing one bank worn out and the other pristine. I haven't seen that. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just that I haven't seen it. Have you seen this, or do you feel like my reasoning is flawed?


It's a proven fact on the 6.4L. Ford only used 2 cylinders to supply fuel for regen on those trucks and those two cyl. usually lose compression causing engine failure. I've also seen high wear from cylinder washout on the VW I owned. As I said, using main injection to supply fuel is for regeneration is primitive and can cause operational problems or even excessive engine wear. The only reason Ford hasn't gone to the proven 9th injector strategy is because of cost cutting measures. I will quote another post in this thread for reference:

Originally Posted by mattd
FWIW we currently have 3 2017+ trucks using quite a bit of oil all with 23k miles or less on them. They've been fed a diet of bulk 15w40 since new. Started using oil around 15k for all of them. These trucks also do see an enormous amount of regens due to the service they see and will likey have all three engines replaced under warranty.

My point is, I would run the oil you have had good results with. If that's redline, stick to it IMO


These trucks ^^^ likely have poor oil control due to excessive cylinder/ring wear caused by washout and/or fuel dilution.
 
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