WRX - Fear of Red Line 5W40 in Chicago Winter

Joined
Dec 26, 2005
Messages
21,542
Location
Upper Midwest
It means it is a convoluted, archaic, mis-representation of cold weather performance badly in need of a new labeling method to help oil purchasers make informed decisions.
It is a much improved real-world representation of cranking and pumpability performance that many people on this board disregard in favor of archaic metics that have been shown to be inadequate.
 
Joined
Nov 8, 2019
Messages
189
Location
Michigan
exactly the same like the Finnish version, read the msds and compere the specs, they do not mach. Also the pour point its not -60. Its -40C


It is close to -60 as shown in this video from the russian oilclub. I dont speak russian and there are many temperature readings in the video. It seems like the actual pour in that video was -54 but i dont speak russian. The msds says <-40 so that would mean -60 is possible.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 27, 2009
Messages
7,117
Location
down in the park
At least Redline says so:

Specific heat for esters is a bit higher (per unit of mass) and esters are generally more dense than PAO and mineral.

In that way there could be an effect on heat transfer, but I doubt it matters much. Likely the shearing of oil generates less temp rise than with a PAO or mineral oil with the same dynamic viscosity.
 
  • Like
Reactions: a5m
Joined
Dec 6, 2017
Messages
1,105
Location
Suomi


It is close to -60 as shown in this video from the russian oilclub. I dont speak russian and there are many temperature readings in the video. It seems like the actual pour in that video was -54 but i dont speak russian. The msds says <-40 so that would mean -60 is possible.

and you are 100% sure that is the updated version? why would msds show -40C if it would be -60? while other M1 products can show for example -45 in their msds🤷
 
Joined
May 17, 2009
Messages
18,014
Location
N.H, U.S.A.
not any more according to the latest msds
You should reference the PDS.
Still appears to be a borderline 30-40 grade ( 12.5 cSt ) on the Canadian marketed product
excerpt: 7-2021 Imperial Oil Calgary AB
Hi-Temp Hi-Shear Viscosity @ 150 C 1x10(6) sec(-1), mPa.s, ASTM D46833.6
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100 C, mm2/s, ASTM D44512.9
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40 C, mm2/s, ASTM D44570.8
Mini-Rotary Viscometer, Apparent Viscosity, -40 C, mPa.s, ASTM D468421600

Here is the US Version; Appears SAME:
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100 C, mm2/s, ASTM D445 12.9 Pour Point, °C, ASTM D97 -60 Density @ 15 C, g/cm3, ASTM D4052 0.846 Kinematic Viscosity @ 40 C, mm2/s, ASTM D445 71
 
Joined
May 17, 2009
Messages
18,014
Location
N.H, U.S.A.
IIRC the VOAs didn't match up with the listed specs. I'll have to look into it again.

I meant the new unused Red Line has to go in somewhere, so I'll just go ahead and use it when I do an oil change soon. Would've rather done it in summer but whatever, it should be fine.
Run a jug of 0W40 FS M1 through Winter. Save the RL to Summer. Though it is too thick.
The viscosity of the Redline you chose is above 100 cSt at very warm ambient temps.!
Which means loss of power and response, especially off-boost and in moderate driving, then Hard starting and slow warmup at near freezing temps
You can tell me I am wrong at the end of the Summer :)

It was just 0 deg F here last night and I am in New Hampshire near the coast, near Maine.

Have fun, Regardless! I miss the EJ engines even if they were grenades in N.A. open-deck SOHC VTEC form.
 
Joined
Nov 8, 2019
Messages
189
Location
Michigan
and you are 100% sure that is the updated version? why would msds show -40C if it would be -60? while other M1 products can show for example -45 in their msds🤷
That is something we do not know. Mobil seems to have variations in a few other prducts as well from pds to msds. However the pds shows the accurate pour point for all of the products. M1 extended performance high mileage 0w20 has a pour point of -54 on the pds and the msds the pour point is -18... i can assure you m1 ep hm 0w20 definately does not stop flowing at -18c. Theres a pour point video on youtube of this oil vs amsoil 0w20 which has a pour point of -52 iirc and the mobil 1 poured ever so slightly better at -50c so obviously the pour point they out on the msds is wrong. M1 ep 0w20 has the same pour point as their high mileage flavor but the msds shows -45c...

Back to the 0w40...the video is 8 months old. Could be a very recent batch who knows. The russian msds shows 30-40% pao and 40-50% gtl. Their pds shows all the same numbers as the us and german ones including the -60 pour point and [email protected] of 21,600. All that info has not changed. The viscosity, hths, pour point, flash point, mrv, and density has all remained the same since about 2016 when it switched to the pao/visom. Nothing has changed it appears except they upped pao and lowed gtl slightly presumably due to a shortage as mobil doesnt even produce gtl, they buy it from shell. Mobil changed the msds on alot of their oils this year while the pds specs have all remained unchanged
 

4WD

$50 site donor 2022
Joined
Sep 21, 2010
Messages
19,197
Location
Texas
It is a much improved real-world representation of cranking and pumpability performance that many people on this board disregard in favor of archaic metics that have been shown to be inadequate.
Agree - but the majority of PVL’s spec’d by the OEM’s are 5W or 0W … so it can be a BITOG thing - but betting most folks “follow the fill cap” …
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2021
Messages
128
I really think you are overthinking this. If you have been happy with Castrol, Castrol 0W-40 is as good as any other motor oil of that weight. So, unless RL is significantly less expensive, I see no reason you should change. Besides, if it is winter you are worried about, not that it will ever get that cold in Chicago, 0W-40 is more desirable than 5W-40.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 4, 2003
Messages
2,562
Location
NJ
I got the sense you weren't 100% onboard with the 5W40 in winter, let alone Red Line. This whole thing started because I thought my car was burning oil. But then in the last 1000 miles or so I found a vacuum leak in the PCV system. I've since fixed that and have been driving hard and monitoring with no change in oil level. So there's that...
If I said that it was probably before I got the new battery. 😁

Absolutely no issues with Red Line as it's robust add pack and robust HTHS and KV @ 100C is a great match for a WRX.

Whether or not you need to run it is another story, especially on short intervals. I started sticking with <$30 a jug oil after my FXT started using so much oil and I didn't see the point of running pricey oil considering all of the specs that the Euro oils meet.
 
  • Like
Reactions: a5m
Joined
Nov 2, 2021
Messages
1,120
Dont see harm in using it.. I'd hold onto it until a summer oil change unless you can swap it for 5w30. Anyway stick with a 5w30 afterwards
 
Joined
Dec 6, 2017
Messages
1,105
Location
Suomi
That is something we do not know. Mobil seems to have variations in a few other prducts as well from pds to msds. However the pds shows the accurate pour point for all of the products. M1 extended performance high mileage 0w20 has a pour point of -54 on the pds and the msds the pour point is -18... i can assure you m1 ep hm 0w20 definately does not stop flowing at -18c. Theres a pour point video on youtube of this oil vs amsoil 0w20 which has a pour point of -52 iirc and the mobil 1 poured ever so slightly better at -50c so obviously the pour point they out on the msds is wrong. M1 ep 0w20 has the same pour point as their high mileage flavor but the msds shows -45c...

Back to the 0w40...the video is 8 months old. Could be a very recent batch who knows. The russian msds shows 30-40% pao and 40-50% gtl. Their pds shows all the same numbers as the us and german ones including the -60 pour point and [email protected] of 21,600. All that info has not changed. The viscosity, hths, pour point, flash point, mrv, and density has all remained the same since about 2016 when it switched to the pao/visom. Nothing has changed it appears except they upped pao and lowed gtl slightly presumably due to a shortage as mobil doesnt even produce gtl, they buy it from shell. Mobil changed the msds on alot of their oils this year while the pds specs have all remained unchanged
RU video is pointless at this point. Dont even know what oil and formula it is. Just speculations. Well time will tell, just like i said above msds dont mach pds. Not even the viscosity at 40C and 100C. Scandinavian M1 dont show any gtl in their msds on the 0w-40. What is right and what is wrong msds is hard to tell right now. Never seen mobil1 mess up this before. Usually they have formula standards on their oils. Maybe a error?
 
Joined
Nov 8, 2019
Messages
189
Location
Michigan
RU video is pointless at this point. Dont even know what oil and formula it is. Just speculations. Well time will tell, just like i said above msds dont mach pds. Not even the viscosity at 40C and 100C. Scandinavian M1 dont show any gtl in their msds on the 0w-40. What is right and what is wrong msds is hard to tell right now. Never seen mobil1 mess up this before. Usually they have formula standards on their oils. Maybe a error?
Good catch on the swedish msds i just checked. No gtl instead looks to be group 3. Hmm
 
Joined
Nov 8, 2019
Messages
189
Location
Michigan
RU video is pointless at this point. Dont even know what oil and formula it is. Just speculations. Well time will tell, just like i said above msds dont mach pds. Not even the viscosity at 40C and 100C. Scandinavian M1 dont show any gtl in their msds on the 0w-40. What is right and what is wrong msds is hard to tell right now. Never seen mobil1 mess up this before. Usually they have formula standards on their oils. Maybe a error?
Again i wouldnt worry about the differences in specs on msds and pds. M1 5w30 vanilla has a pour point of -45c on pds or -49f and on msds the pour point is 36c or 97f! Trust the pds for viscosity specs and pour points and flash points vs the sds IMO
 
Joined
Nov 8, 2019
Messages
189
Location
Michigan
Of course GTL is a Group III base stock (which is subsequently hydrocracked) but I’m assuming the CAS shows it to be not derived from GTL?
Ive checked the CAS and matched it with a list of cas numbers found here...

Translate to english but it looks like it could even be group 2 but i doubt XOM would put a high concentration of group 2 in this specific oil. According that link it could be yubase 5, 6, or 8 but i have zero knowledge on those
 
Top