WRX - Fear of Red Line 5W40 in Chicago Winter

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Thanks all for your replies and suggestions. This thread sort of sums up my confusion about this topic, as we seem to have a 50/50 split on what I should do.


Thanks, I already practice this with the current fill. As someone mentioned, that might be with M1 due to it being a bit on the thin side.


I'm worried because I want to fully understand them. I've read up on what those values are measuring, so I understand the definition so to speak, but am a bit unsure in terms of real-world use, specifically for my application. The EJ isn't anything special but not all engines are created equal. Just trying to prolong its life the best I can. Good point about the battery, I should be replacing mine soon.


Red Line lists the CCS in poise instead of centipoise so I went with that. Thanks for explaining the testing temp difference, that makes a lot of sense.


I'm not sure that's true for an EJ, especially in the summer. As in most cases with Red Line, I had to order it online. I may be able to return it, but I don't think it'll make economical sense.



Thanks Dennis. Firstly yes, I'm referring to the High Performance line. My factory battery is getting pretty tired, as I've noticed sluggish starts on a couple really cold mornings. I'm not worried about the car starting due to viscosity, but about the oil getting to where it needs to in time. As much as I want to just do it, I may hold off for the summer. I don't know.

I've taken the manual recommendations with a grain of salt but hadn't come across this. Do you remember what section it's in?
11-13. There's a viscosity chart and you have to squint to tell that it goes below 0F, but the Factory Service Manual mentions -4F.


Before I sold my Forester, I ran 10W-40 in the summer (mainly due to high consumption) and that sometimes continued into the winter depending when I needed to change the oil. I did usually top up with 0W-40 during the winter and would usually just use 0W-40 if I was changing late fall/early winter.

If I didn't burn through two quarts in ~5k miles, I probably would've stuck with 0W-40 year round. I do recall Dave at Red Line recommending their 5W-30 in turbocharged EJ's that specced up to xW-40. After my last factory battery lasted me less than two years, I ditched it even though it was under a pro-rated warranty and went with a more powerful Interstate battery. I left a map light on all night in single digit temps (twice!) and didn't have any issues starting the next day.
 
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They don't even list the HTHS now. All we know is it's a minimum of 3.5 because it's A3/B4.
Finnish page show 3.6 hths before the update in the formula. And that oil is thinner than the updated version so my guess is, the hths is a little bit more since its thicker than the old version🤔
 
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still waiting for mobil to update typical specs for the 0w-40 since the msds do not mach it. Think the hths is a little more than before. its 13.81 cSt at 100C after the update.
Check the german pds and msds. Its most current. The pds even lists the [email protected] which is 21,600 along with the -60 pour point. Msds shows more pao and slightly less gtl i believe
 
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a5m

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11-13. There's a viscosity chart and you have to squint to tell that it goes below 0F, but the Factory Service Manual mentions -4F.


Before I sold my Forester, I ran 10W-40 in the summer (mainly due to high consumption) and that sometimes continued into the winter depending when I needed to change the oil. I did usually top up with 0W-40 during the winter and would usually just use 0W-40 if I was changing late fall/early winter.

If I didn't burn through two quarts in ~5k miles, I probably would've stuck with 0W-40 year round. I do recall Dave at Red Line recommending their 5W-30 in turbocharged EJ's that specced up to xW-40. After my last factory battery lasted me less than two years, I ditched it even though it was under a pro-rated warranty and went with a more powerful Interstate battery. I left a map light on all night in single digit temps (twice!) and didn't have any issues starting the next day.
Oh yes, 11-12. I see it now. 5W40 is well below -20F on that vague diagram 😂 Have to take a look at the FSM.

I got the sense you weren't 100% onboard with the 5W40 in winter, let alone Red Line. This whole thing started because I thought my car was burning oil. But then in the last 1000 miles or so I found a vacuum leak in the PCV system. I've since fixed that and have been driving hard and monitoring with no change in oil level. So there's that...

It also has the best cold temperature specs of all the major's 0w40.
still waiting for mobil to update typical specs for the 0w-40 since the msds do not mach it. Think the hths is a little more than before. its 13.81 cSt at 100C after the update.
Of course. Mobil 1 does it again. I've just come across this news and read through that entire thread by @OVERKILL. Great. But these formula changes and data sheet inconsistencies give me pause to switch. I think I'm just going to run this Red Line.

Where you located? I think you are over thinking it. Redline 5w40 is a great choice for your EJ.

Pour it in and enjoy!
Chicago. Not the coldest, but it gets down there. I think you're right. Less than 100 miles away. This stuff is going in!

I ran 5W-40 through winters in my ‘97 LGT and ‘08 STI without a single issue.

What’s your OCI, btw? Whats your driving profile?
Which 5W40? I was doing 3k but on this one went with the Subaru recommended 3750 miles, and was going to extend if the UOA looked good.

I don't baby it, but don't beat on it either. Sees boost every time I drive, 10 psi avg, with a WOT here and there. In fact went WOT today, but the ECU seems to pull boost in cold temps so only hit 13.82 psi.
 
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Oh yes, 11-12. I see it now. 5W40 is well below -20F on that vague diagram 😂 Have to take a look at the FSM.

I got the sense you weren't 100% onboard with the 5W40 in winter, let alone Red Line. This whole thing started because I thought my car was burning oil. But then in the last 1000 miles or so I found a vacuum leak in the PCV system. I've since fixed that and have been driving hard and monitoring with no change in oil level. So there's that...



Of course. Mobil 1 does it again. I've just come across this news and read through that entire thread by @OVERKILL. Great. But these formula changes and data sheet inconsistencies give me pause to switch. I think I'm just going to run this Red Line.


Chicago. Not the coldest, but it gets down there. I think you're right. Less than 100 miles away. This stuff is going in!


Which 5W40? I was doing 3k but on this one went with the Subaru recommended 3750 miles, and was going to extend if the UOA looked good.

I don't baby it, but don't beat on it either. Sees boost every time I drive, 10 psi avg, with a WOT here and there. In fact went WOT today, but the ECU seems to pull boost in cold temps so only hit 13.82 psi.
Dont worry about the data sheets for m1 fs. Its a world wide product and the most current msds for it shows increased pao and slightly decreased gtl. The specs the oil meets has not changed and the pds specs for the oil are the same no matter what pds you look at. The german one shows the most info. I thought i read of a gtl shortage so im guessing thats why theres more pao now. If anything it should make all us oil nerds feel warm and fuzzy inside lol
 
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I was doing up to 7k intervals with RT6. 3.75?! What a waste, unless you’re a short tripper.
Not brave enough to start off there, was going to build up to it. $21.97 is cheap insurance.

Dont worry about the data sheets for m1 fs. Its a world wide product and the most current msds for it shows increased pao and slightly decreased gtl. The specs the oil meets has not changed and the pds specs for the oil are the same no matter what pds you look at. The german one shows the most info. I thought i read of a gtl shortage so im guessing thats why theres more pao now. If anything it should make all us oil nerds feel warm and fuzzy inside lol
Haha yes it should, until it gets reformulated and someone notices by accident months later 😂

You're right about the specs. But I have this Red Line now and it has to go somewhere. Excited for the next UOA to see how it does.
 
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Not brave enough to start off there, was going to build up to it. $21.97 is cheap insurance.


Haha yes it should, until it gets reformulated and someone notices by accident months later 😂

You're right about the specs. But I have this Red Line now and it has to go somewhere. Excited for the next UOA to see how it does.
The only thing i could see them doing is going back to the old levels or pao/gtl. It doesnt get reformulated very often. As far as i know prior to this one it was last reformulated in 2016 from pao/visom to pao/gtl base. Correct me if im wrong @OVERKILL

I wouldnt dump the redline early just to use m1 0w40
 

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The only thing i could see them doing is going back to the old levels or pao/gtl. It doesnt get reformulated very often. As far as i know prior to this one it was last reformulated in 2016 from pao/visom to pao/gtl base. Correct me if im wrong @OVERKILL

I wouldnt dump the redline early just to use m1 0w40
IIRC the VOAs didn't match up with the listed specs. I'll have to look into it again.

I meant the new unused Red Line has to go in somewhere, so I'll just go ahead and use it when I do an oil change soon. Would've rather done it in summer but whatever, it should be fine.
 
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IIRC the VOAs didn't match up with the listed specs. I'll have to look into it again.

I meant the new unused Red Line has to go in somewhere, so I'll just go ahead and use it when I do an oil change soon. Would've rather done it in summer but whatever, it should be fine.
What didnt match up? If viscosity doesnt match up im sure the labs that test these oils are not perfect with viscosity tests especially blackstone it seems. Id trust exxon mobil who spent millions developing these lubes over a 30-40 dollar voa
 
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The only thing i could see them doing is going back to the old levels or pao/gtl. It doesnt get reformulated very often. As far as i know prior to this one it was last reformulated in 2016 from pao/visom to pao/gtl base. Correct me if im wrong @OVERKILL

I wouldnt dump the redline early just to use m1 0w40
Sounds right. The most recent version is, IMHO, an improvement. I like seeing more PAO, but I'm biased, lol.
 

a5m

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What didnt match up? If viscosity doesnt match up im sure the labs that test these oils are not perfect with viscosity tests especially blackstone it seems. Id trust exxon mobil who spent millions developing these lubes over a 30-40 dollar voa
Yes viscosities, particularly kinematic at 100°C. But who knows that might have been more of a PDS/formulation mismatch instead.
 
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Next OCI coming up. Been running Castrol Edge 0W40 but bit the bullet and decided to try Red Line 5W40. Mainly to change things up, but potentially improve wear and protection.

Less than 200 miles away. Figured 5W40 would be fine year-round, but with temps getting into the teens and single digits I'm having second thoughts now.

Castrol Edge 0W40 has a CCS of [email protected]°C and Viscosity at 40°C and 100°C of 74 and 13.2, while Red Line 5W40 CCS is [email protected]°C, Viscosity at 40°C and 100°C of 97 and 15.6. Plus Red Line is an ester based oil, so how does that factor in? Dave at Red Line said ester improves heat transfer but nothing to substantially alter warm up time. 5W40 would be fine but he recommended 5W30 for my application.

This is for a stock motor and tune 2010 WRX approaching 122K miles. Here is my last UOA on Castro Edge 0W40.

Given the butter-like toughness of these EJ engines, and the heavier than typical weight of Red Line oils, should I just stick to Castrol for another OCI and then RL once the weather warms up? Or am I overthinking this and should just send it?

In all honesty, I don't fully understand what the viscosity specs mean for the conditions I'm describing other than that the differences seem substantial. Haven't found anything specific to my application so posting this hoping someone can shed some light or point me in the right direction to understand all this better.

Thanks in advance.
Does the WRX need 40wt? Seems like 5w30 would be good.
 
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