Red flag on 2010 BMW 328i CarFax
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Originally Posted By: barlowc
That doesn't say much for BMW quality.
Who said there was any?
Seriously though, BMW is known for many things, but reliability isn't one of them.
That doesn't say much for BMW quality.
Who said there was any?
Seriously though, BMW is known for many things, but reliability isn't one of them.
But he said Quality; is that the same thing as Reliability?
Just for the fun, I was looking at the places where 5-series are discussed. One of the routine procedure on 545 is listed to cost about 8 to 10K, something to fix the valve guide leaks. One guy had given a part list for the routine coolant maintenance on a run of the mill 5 series. I started adding it up mentally and after it went over five hundred, I stopped counting!
Then there was a guy who purchased a used BMW from a Long Island used car dealer and then took it to the BMW dealer for inspection! Was he surprised to get a laundry list of items needed to be replaced on that vehicle.
BMW's are like crack, they make people do dumbest thing.
Just for the fun, I was looking at the places where 5-series are discussed. One of the routine procedure on 545 is listed to cost about 8 to 10K, something to fix the valve guide leaks. One guy had given a part list for the routine coolant maintenance on a run of the mill 5 series. I started adding it up mentally and after it went over five hundred, I stopped counting!
Then there was a guy who purchased a used BMW from a Long Island used car dealer and then took it to the BMW dealer for inspection! Was he surprised to get a laundry list of items needed to be replaced on that vehicle.
BMW's are like crack, they make people do dumbest thing.
Hard to believe so many are concerned about the mileage on a 2010 BMW with 18k miles. Which comes out to 6k miles a year or 500 miles per month.
Originally Posted By: Vikas
But he said Quality; is that the same thing as Reliability?
Right, but he was responding to a comment around the riskiness of keeping a BMW outside of warranty, which to me should be looked at from the standpoint of reliability rather than quality. Wrong choice of words, maybe? Not sure which one the previous poster really meant.
You can have high quality fit and finish both inside the cabin as well as under the hood, but if the individual parts haven't been designed to last (like the weak plastic cooling systems), then it's going to be a reliability issue and a significant cost once warranty runs out, unless you're very handy and can DIY.
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Just for the fun, I was looking at the places where 5-series are discussed. One of the routine procedure on 545 is listed to cost about 8 to 10K, something to fix the valve guide leaks.
When you say routine, how often does it need to be done? Regardless, sounds expensive
but I'd expect the I6 engine in 328i to not need such pricy maintenance as the V8 on 545i.
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One guy had given a part list for the routine coolant maintenance on a run of the mill 5 series.
Yup. I had a long list of items that I had replaced on my 5 as part of a cooling system overhaul at 70K miles. Parts were $800 (from autohausaz). Not too terrible, but again, most other cars don't need it done at all. I paid a guy $300 for the labor, and he certainly deserved it.
Now, if you let the dealer do it, you'll pay $1500 for parts and another $1000 for labor.
But he said Quality; is that the same thing as Reliability?
Right, but he was responding to a comment around the riskiness of keeping a BMW outside of warranty, which to me should be looked at from the standpoint of reliability rather than quality. Wrong choice of words, maybe? Not sure which one the previous poster really meant.
You can have high quality fit and finish both inside the cabin as well as under the hood, but if the individual parts haven't been designed to last (like the weak plastic cooling systems), then it's going to be a reliability issue and a significant cost once warranty runs out, unless you're very handy and can DIY.
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Just for the fun, I was looking at the places where 5-series are discussed. One of the routine procedure on 545 is listed to cost about 8 to 10K, something to fix the valve guide leaks.
When you say routine, how often does it need to be done? Regardless, sounds expensive
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One guy had given a part list for the routine coolant maintenance on a run of the mill 5 series.
Yup. I had a long list of items that I had replaced on my 5 as part of a cooling system overhaul at 70K miles. Parts were $800 (from autohausaz). Not too terrible, but again, most other cars don't need it done at all. I paid a guy $300 for the labor, and he certainly deserved it.
Now, if you let the dealer do it, you'll pay $1500 for parts and another $1000 for labor.
Originally Posted By: satinsilver
Hard to believe so many are concerned about the mileage on a 2010 BMW with 18k miles. Which comes out to 6k miles a year or 500 miles per month.
It's not the absolute amount of miles that concerns most, it's the fact that a large amount of those miles were within a small window of time without a plausible explanation yet.
Hard to believe so many are concerned about the mileage on a 2010 BMW with 18k miles. Which comes out to 6k miles a year or 500 miles per month.
It's not the absolute amount of miles that concerns most, it's the fact that a large amount of those miles were within a small window of time without a plausible explanation yet.
Dealer picked it up, ran a fast 6k or so on it, now they are selling it.
Our local Ford dealer did this last year with an S550 and some [censored] aftermarket warranty, and got some sucker to pay what MBUSA was getting for CPO examples.
Our local Ford dealer did this last year with an S550 and some [censored] aftermarket warranty, and got some sucker to pay what MBUSA was getting for CPO examples.
What happened? The first owner bought a cheap, low mileage lease, drove it about 16K and rolled the odometer back. Think it doesn't happen anymore? Think again. This article is a real eye-opener: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/12...buyer-part-one/
BMW has hidden odometers in the cars, so the fraud was corrected and fixed. Whether the guy was actually "caught" or not is neither here nor there, to you.
Alternative: Someone bought the car, couldn't afford it and drove the heck out of it before it was either repoed or thought better of it and voluntarily turned it in.
Either scenario should be a non-issue for you. Its a mistake to try and read too much into a Carfax report, just because you paid so much for it. The car wasn't stolen and had maintenance done along the way, and wasn't turned in under the lemon law or involved in a reported accident.
BMW has hidden odometers in the cars, so the fraud was corrected and fixed. Whether the guy was actually "caught" or not is neither here nor there, to you.
Alternative: Someone bought the car, couldn't afford it and drove the heck out of it before it was either repoed or thought better of it and voluntarily turned it in.
Either scenario should be a non-issue for you. Its a mistake to try and read too much into a Carfax report, just because you paid so much for it. The car wasn't stolen and had maintenance done along the way, and wasn't turned in under the lemon law or involved in a reported accident.
I didn't know you could roll back odometers on electronic odometers!
I kind of went the other way on the Cherokee. The gauge cluster died at 106653 miles. Lowest one I could find in the junkyard was 177500 miles.
Happened right after inspection ... so I put on about 75000 miles in one year!
I kind of went the other way on the Cherokee. The gauge cluster died at 106653 miles. Lowest one I could find in the junkyard was 177500 miles.
Happened right after inspection ... so I put on about 75000 miles in one year!
Yep, it's possible to "Roll back" electronic/digital odo's. Before I put a oem gage package on my F150 I sent the cluster to a guy who changed the number held in memory. I looked into it and on the Ford the cluster stores odo info in hexadecimal! So when it's changed it may not show exactly what you were trying to get it read. I drove it for a couple of weeks to get the readings close enough to swap the cluster.
Wow... paranoid much?
The car was into the dealer a year before being sold for service at 8000 miles... (but we'd rather make wild assumptions with out even reading thread or the car fax and give "advice" I guess)
The car was CPO, they surely would have caught tampering...
The car moved from Florida to Michigan a distance of ~1350 miles one way...
Several trips between FL and MI is a much more reasonable explanation...
The car now has 17,000 miles why does it even matter how it or when they got on it?
If someone can provide a coherent explanation of why the fact that the car got 7000 miles on it in a few months is so concerning I'd love to hear it and that might be helpful to the original poster...
The car was into the dealer a year before being sold for service at 8000 miles... (but we'd rather make wild assumptions with out even reading thread or the car fax and give "advice" I guess)
The car was CPO, they surely would have caught tampering...
The car moved from Florida to Michigan a distance of ~1350 miles one way...
Several trips between FL and MI is a much more reasonable explanation...
The car now has 17,000 miles why does it even matter how it or when they got on it?
If someone can provide a coherent explanation of why the fact that the car got 7000 miles on it in a few months is so concerning I'd love to hear it and that might be helpful to the original poster...
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Wow... paranoid much?
The car was into the dealer a year before being sold for service at 8000 miles... (but we'd rather make wild assumptions with out even reading thread or the car fax and give "advice" I guess)
The car was CPO, they surely would have caught tampering...
The car moved from Florida to Michigan a distance of ~1350 miles one way...
Several trips between FL and MI is a much more reasonable explanation...
The car now has 17,000 miles why does it even matter how it or when they got on it?
If someone can provide a coherent explanation of why the fact that the car got 7000 miles on it in a few months is so concerning I'd love to hear it and that might be helpful to the original poster...
I did provide a coherent explanation on how this particular car could have racked up 7000 miles in a couple of months. My theory is that it could have had some problems or an accident that doesnt' show up on Carfax (they aren't perfect), and to avoid having a ding on the title they drove it to their sister dealership and had it titled in FL. Then they drove it back to MI and had it re-titled in MI with a clear title.
Is it probable? Maybe not, but it is possible that it went down this way.
Wow... paranoid much?
The car was into the dealer a year before being sold for service at 8000 miles... (but we'd rather make wild assumptions with out even reading thread or the car fax and give "advice" I guess)
The car was CPO, they surely would have caught tampering...
The car moved from Florida to Michigan a distance of ~1350 miles one way...
Several trips between FL and MI is a much more reasonable explanation...
The car now has 17,000 miles why does it even matter how it or when they got on it?
If someone can provide a coherent explanation of why the fact that the car got 7000 miles on it in a few months is so concerning I'd love to hear it and that might be helpful to the original poster...
I did provide a coherent explanation on how this particular car could have racked up 7000 miles in a couple of months. My theory is that it could have had some problems or an accident that doesnt' show up on Carfax (they aren't perfect), and to avoid having a ding on the title they drove it to their sister dealership and had it titled in FL. Then they drove it back to MI and had it re-titled in MI with a clear title.
Is it probable? Maybe not, but it is possible that it went down this way.
Lost of people try and wash a car title between states, stay away.
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Lost of people try and wash a car title between states, stay away.
Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly do you mean by "washing" a title? And is there anything in this vehicle's CarFax that indicates something was washed?
I got an AutoCheck and everything checked out on it too. So everything with Owner #1 looks completely legit. It appears to have been a 3-year lease car in Florida, after which it was CPO by BMW. It's just the unexplained short ownership and high mileage of Owner #2 which is odd.
Lost of people try and wash a car title between states, stay away.
Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly do you mean by "washing" a title? And is there anything in this vehicle's CarFax that indicates something was washed?
I got an AutoCheck and everything checked out on it too. So everything with Owner #1 looks completely legit. It appears to have been a 3-year lease car in Florida, after which it was CPO by BMW. It's just the unexplained short ownership and high mileage of Owner #2 which is odd.
Originally Posted By: barlowc
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Lost of people try and wash a car title between states, stay away.
Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly do you mean by "washing" a title? And is there anything in this vehicle's CarFax that indicates something was washed?
Typically "washing" means to clean a title of a salvage or rebuilt brand. I'm sure it could be done but with changes in laws and NMVTIS/NICB it isn't like it was 10 years ago. Alabama was the one that was notorious...
And no, there is no evidence of it, it is just BITOG teeth gnashing...
The assertion does not make a lick of sense and I'm surprised someone could actually type it out, proofread it and not realize what absolute hogwash it is.
I mean the assertion is really that between 02/15/2013 and 03/29/2013 (what is that 6 weeks) someone had time to total the car, fix the car, perform a minor titling miracle AND put a little over 7000 miles on the car... REALLY
Any thing we propose is theory but that one doesn't get past the smell test on several fronts.
Originally Posted By: barlowc
I got an AutoCheck and everything checked out on it too. So everything with Owner #1 looks completely legit. It appears to have been a 3-year lease car in Florida, after which it was CPO by BMW. It's just the unexplained short ownership and high mileage of Owner #2 which is odd.
I agree it is odd, that I agree with...
I still don't see the big deal if the car checks out and is a good deal. When a CPO one year older with nearly twice the miles is the same price it sounds like it is priced right. Particularly if they'll pony up a warranty...
If I was guessing I would say the owner suffered some sort of life change and had to move and the car just didn't fit into the new deal. (marriage, divorce, death of a parent, child or spouse, sudden job loss something like that.) The mileage is roughly 2 round trips and a one way no...?
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Lost of people try and wash a car title between states, stay away.
Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly do you mean by "washing" a title? And is there anything in this vehicle's CarFax that indicates something was washed?
Typically "washing" means to clean a title of a salvage or rebuilt brand. I'm sure it could be done but with changes in laws and NMVTIS/NICB it isn't like it was 10 years ago. Alabama was the one that was notorious...
And no, there is no evidence of it, it is just BITOG teeth gnashing...
The assertion does not make a lick of sense and I'm surprised someone could actually type it out, proofread it and not realize what absolute hogwash it is.
I mean the assertion is really that between 02/15/2013 and 03/29/2013 (what is that 6 weeks) someone had time to total the car, fix the car, perform a minor titling miracle AND put a little over 7000 miles on the car... REALLY
Any thing we propose is theory but that one doesn't get past the smell test on several fronts.
Originally Posted By: barlowc
I got an AutoCheck and everything checked out on it too. So everything with Owner #1 looks completely legit. It appears to have been a 3-year lease car in Florida, after which it was CPO by BMW. It's just the unexplained short ownership and high mileage of Owner #2 which is odd.
I agree it is odd, that I agree with...
I still don't see the big deal if the car checks out and is a good deal. When a CPO one year older with nearly twice the miles is the same price it sounds like it is priced right. Particularly if they'll pony up a warranty...
If I was guessing I would say the owner suffered some sort of life change and had to move and the car just didn't fit into the new deal. (marriage, divorce, death of a parent, child or spouse, sudden job loss something like that.) The mileage is roughly 2 round trips and a one way no...?
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Originally Posted By: barlowc
Hi guys. I've looked at a used 2010 BMW 328i that a local Honda dealer has for sale. In reviewing the CarFax report, I noticed something that raised a red flag and wanted to see what you all thought.
On 02/15/2013 at 10,578 miles there's a record that states, "Title or registration issued. New owner reported." It's the first record for Owner #2.
Then, on 03/12/2013 there's a record that states, "Title issued or updated", and the mileage is reported as 15,700. What kind of use puts 5K miles on a vehicle in a month?
Then, on 03/29/2013 there's a record that states, "Vehicle offered for sale", and the mileage is reported as 17,847. 2K miles in 17 days!?
The vehicle is in great shape and clean - exterior, interior, and under the hood - and is being sold at a reasonable price. But 7300 miles in a month and a half seems crazy.
What do you think? So crazy that I should steer clear?
One possibility is that a high-mileage commuter purchased the car, drove it for a month, and found out that it did not fit their needs very well (noise, driving position, etc) and therefore, traded it in immediately.
Hi guys. I've looked at a used 2010 BMW 328i that a local Honda dealer has for sale. In reviewing the CarFax report, I noticed something that raised a red flag and wanted to see what you all thought.
On 02/15/2013 at 10,578 miles there's a record that states, "Title or registration issued. New owner reported." It's the first record for Owner #2.
Then, on 03/12/2013 there's a record that states, "Title issued or updated", and the mileage is reported as 15,700. What kind of use puts 5K miles on a vehicle in a month?
Then, on 03/29/2013 there's a record that states, "Vehicle offered for sale", and the mileage is reported as 17,847. 2K miles in 17 days!?
The vehicle is in great shape and clean - exterior, interior, and under the hood - and is being sold at a reasonable price. But 7300 miles in a month and a half seems crazy.
What do you think? So crazy that I should steer clear?
One possibility is that a high-mileage commuter purchased the car, drove it for a month, and found out that it did not fit their needs very well (noise, driving position, etc) and therefore, traded it in immediately.
Stay away !!!!!!
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Stay away !!!!!!
Just curious, but what it your reason for this particular case?
Stay away !!!!!!
Just curious, but what it your reason for this particular case?
Very fishy circumstances...
Stay away !!!!
Stay away !!!!
I hate to return to this thread, but with the continued discussions I wanted to add one obvious thing. If a dealership has a car at a bargain price there is a reason. If a car is damaged and repaired responsibly they will want full retail. If not, it will usually be wholesaled. Most dealerships have a lot, sometimes hidden, where they keep the wholesale cars. And no, you can't buy one without a dealer license.
The car smells fishy. Dealers are guilty until proven innocent in my book. I worked in the field for years in independent repair shops and have friends in the service areas and body shops of several local dealerships. I have cut cars in half and put 'em back together. And I'm telling ya, if it's cheap there is a reason.
I have seen everything from great repair jobs to mud and undercoating jobs that were just plain scary.
Get this car checked by an independent body shop and ask if him if he would buy it for his wife or mother. My bet? Probably not.
The car smells fishy. Dealers are guilty until proven innocent in my book. I worked in the field for years in independent repair shops and have friends in the service areas and body shops of several local dealerships. I have cut cars in half and put 'em back together. And I'm telling ya, if it's cheap there is a reason.
I have seen everything from great repair jobs to mud and undercoating jobs that were just plain scary.
Get this car checked by an independent body shop and ask if him if he would buy it for his wife or mother. My bet? Probably not.
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