Recommend me a 38 Special Ammo FMJ and HP

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I can understand the non-+P. In an airweight, +P can be zippy. I have cysts in my right hand. +p's were punishing on my shooting hand. Thus, I got rid of my J frame, which I loved, and opted for a S&W Shield. Going non-+P certainly limits t he choices. My first choice would be LSWHP. If it fails to open up and expand, it still acts as a wadcutter. Second choice would be just to go with a wadcutter. Last time I checked, the LSWCHP were getting hard to find. Probably have to find them online.
 
i like handiness of my alloy s&w 642 38 snubbie but its lightweight doesnt absorb recoil well at all. for all my handguns my practice ammo is always my ccw ammo. im recoil averse so need softest shooting ammo possible for the 642. so online or at gunshows i stock up on 38 wadcutter (any brand) or cbc 38 shorts (by magtech). i shoot cheapest 158gr fmj (any brand) ammo out of the heavier-built ruger blackhawk or bond arms derringer or steel taurus 85.
 
Originally Posted By: bunnspecial
Your specification of non-+P makes the choice a bit more difficult. My go to snub loads are either the 135gr short barrel gold dot, or the old "FBI load"-a 158gr LSWCHP but both of these are +P loads. 158gr is the "standard" weight for 38 special, and most fixed sight revolvers will shoot to POA with 158gr ammo. FMJs are not super common in 158gr 38 Specials. I like just a standard 158gr lead round nose or semi-wadcutter for range use(granted I cast my own SWCs). With that said, I think S&B(or Cabelas house-brand black box Herter's Brass) sells a 158gr round nose that's either jacketed or plated. If you opt for a lighter bullet, the big three all make either a plated or jacketed 125gr or 130gr round nose that's economical and probably as good as anything for range use. If you want to practice with a +P ammo, Wal-Mart use to sell(I haven't looked recently) a pretty affordable Remington 125gr +P jacket hollow point in 100-round boxes.
I haven't seen the video links posted on this thread. But a while back I saw some well-respected Youtuber who did ammo comparisons put the Remington hollow points, bolded above, up against a more popular self-defense round. And it more than held it's own weight in the reviewer's eyes. Expansion was more than adequate for someone looking for a hollow-pointed self-defense round. Plus it's affordable and easily accessable. It's what my wife keeps in her J-frame and practices with.
 
If you are 100% set on non plus P, then that really limits your options, as far as good performance. Most will not open up and will just act like a FMJ. Hornady Critical Defense 110 grain is an acceptable load. Another decent option is 148 grain wadcutter, or 158 grain semi-wadcutter. At least you can go for penetration and tumbling with the weaker non-plus P loads. The fluted 100 grain extreme defender round by Lehigh/Underwood, also looks promising, although expensive.
 
Originally Posted By: bigj_16
My wife had problems with recoil in her LCRX 3". We finally got down to the Hornady Critical Defense Lite 90gr.
I HIGHLY recommend not using that round. Ever. Standard pressure 148 grain wadcutter or standard pressure 158 grain semi-wadcutter are superior in every way. Its far better to have 15-20 inches of tumbling penetration with no expansion than 7-9 inches of penetration.
 
Originally Posted By: Sierra048
I haven't seen the video links posted on this thread. But a while back I saw some well-respected Youtuber who did ammo comparisons put the Remington hollow points, bolded above, up against a more popular self-defense round. And it more than held it's own weight in the reviewer's eyes. Expansion was more than adequate for someone looking for a hollow-pointed self-defense round. Plus it's affordable and easily accessable. It's what my wife keeps in her J-frame and practices with.
IMO, the cost is definitely a point in its favor. At least the last time I looked at it, it was price competitive with the 130gr FMJ standard pressure Remington load that Wal-Mart sells(I think around $35 for 100 rounds) and there's a lot of merit to practicing with what you carry. I like the FBI Load for the same reason. It's a BIT more expensive than standard pressure 158gr SWCs, but I can afford to shoot a fair bit of it at around $30 for a 50 round box(as opposed to that much for a 20 round box of Gold Dots). I will qualify that, though, with the comment that I've been able to buy the 50 round "law enforcement" boxes of Gold Dots from SGammo for around $30, although what they have in stock at any one time is hit or miss.
 
Originally Posted By: wymi516
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLPFPyg9r1k
EXCELLENT choice of videos. Paul did a 3-part series on .38 Snub ammo analysis. In the shorty, I've always used the tried and dull 158 grain lead semi wadcutter hollowpoint in the +P. All S&W J frames made after 1994 are, by default, rated for +P. I'm still using a 1970 vintage M36, and shoot +P occasionally out of it - without issue.
 
Originally Posted By: HouseTiger
All S&W J frames made after 1994 are, by default, rated for +P. I'm still using a 1970 vintage M36, and shoot +P occasionally out of it - without issue.
I would not worry about the strength of a J-frame. S&W's official line for a while was that any revolver with a model number stamped on it was +P safe, although they've become a bit more conservative since. One of the big gun writers back in the day-perhaps Skeeter Skelton or Jeff Cooper-opined that the J-frame was strong enough that you'd break your hand before you broke the gun. I don't know how much I'd care to test that, but at least in 38 caliber has a few features not present in other S&Ws. Most notable is the fact that the locking notches are offset from the chambers in the cylinder. I should qualify that my comment on strength related to the original Chief's Special in steel-the gun that would become the model 36. I'd treat older alloy frames a bit more carefully, but I wouldn't worry about occasional +P use. All alloy frames from any maker will stretch with any ammo, although fortunately at least up to a point frame stretch is easy to compensate for on S&Ws by shimming the cylinder.
 
Originally Posted By: bunnspecial
S&W's official line for a while was that any revolver with a model number stamped on it was +P safe, although they've become a bit more conservative since.
So has +P ammo.
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: bunnspecial
S&W's official line for a while was that any revolver with a model number stamped on it was +P safe, although they've become a bit more conservative since.
So has +P ammo.
Very true. I've chronoed some old(1960s) Winchester-Western 158gr RNs that managed about 850fps +/-10fps. Out of the same gun(S&W 14-2), the Remington "FBI Load" managed 880 +/-12fps.
 
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: bigj_16
My wife had problems with recoil in her LCRX 3". We finally got down to the Hornady Critical Defense Lite 90gr.
I HIGHLY recommend not using that round. Ever. Standard pressure 148 grain wadcutter or standard pressure 158 grain semi-wadcutter are superior in every way. Its far better to have 15-20 inches of tumbling penetration with no expansion than 7-9 inches of penetration.
I have seen more than one test that showed the Hornady load tumbles its bullet consistently.
 
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Originally Posted By: bigj_16
I have seen more than one test that showed the Hornady load tumbles its bullet consistently.
Im big time into ballistics. That 90 grain load is too light. You are looking at 7 to 9 inches of penetration. Avoid. I'm serious.
 
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: bigj_16
My wife had problems with recoil in her LCRX 3". We finally got down to the Hornady Critical Defense Lite 90gr.
I HIGHLY recommend not using that round. Ever. Standard pressure 148 grain wadcutter or standard pressure 158 grain semi-wadcutter are superior in every way. Its far better to have 15-20 inches of tumbling penetration with no expansion than 7-9 inches of penetration.
Over penetration is more a liability with that 20” of penetration-your likely to shoot thru the BG and hit a bystander. I’d take the Hornady 7-9” where my gun functions 100% and I’m comfortable shooting, and following up rather than causing and being liable for collateral damage.
 
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
I agree with Bunnspecial. .38 Special just doesn't have the juice to light up all these catchy named jacketed hollow point bullets. Good old fashioned lead bullets do best. It's hard to find lead semi wadcutter hollow points but I would second it better than and jacketed fashion ammo in that caliber out of a snub.
Something kinda like this maybe! They work ok if you don't cast them to hard and keep your velocity down a bit. These weigh around 150 Gr. These are the same bullet I just used my Hollow point modified mold for the bottom ones. They are Brindle hardness 10 to 12 and I shoot these about 800 FPS.
 
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Originally Posted By: JohnnyJohnson
Something kinda like this maybe! They work ok if you don't cast them to hard and keep your velocity down a bit. These weigh around 150 Gr. These are the same bullet I just used my Hollow point modified mold for the bottom ones. They are Brindle hardness 10 to 12 and I shoot these about 800 FPS.
Commercial 158gr LHPs from Remington and Federal are swaged pure lead, and are around BHN 5. They do not lead. I've been of the belief for a while that a lot of folks THINK bullets have to be harder than is necessary, and it often causes more problems than it solves. A bullet needs to be soft enough to easily obturate to the bore and only just hard enough to not "smear." The former is more of a concern in low pressure 38 specials than the latter. After all, 22s use pretty much this same bullet construction(soft swaged lead) and typically run at 1100fps+. When was the last time you had to de-lead a 22? I cast pretty much exclusively with wheel weights, which are anywhere from 9 to 12 depending on who you ask. I do not have leading issues. When I buy cast bullets, I often buy "cowboy" bullets from Missouri or their equivalent and I'm generally not afraid to run them up to 1300fps or so. They lead a LOT less than Linotype bullets at the same same velocities-in fact the BHN 12 bullets will usually not lead at all, while a Linotype bullet will leave enough lead that I have to push it out with a Tornado brush and can collect strips a half inch long in my hand. The hardest bullets I routinely use are a true Keith type 170gr SWC that a local caster makes. They size them to .358 and cast them at 15-16, just as Elmer prescribed. When shot as Elmer would shoot them(13.5gr 2400) they don't lead.
 
Well use that same 170 Gr. load in a softer lead and see what happens. That's why they at the Lyman #2 alloy hardness. Consistent loads over 1200 FPS or so that aren't that hard product some amount of leading in most guns. When you keep your muzzle velocities down leading drops way off. But the lube you use can also make a tremendous difference in the prevention of leading. All most all 22's are plated and or wax coated also.
 
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Originally Posted By: bunnspecial
Originally Posted By: HouseTiger
All S&W J frames made after 1994 are, by default, rated for +P. I'm still using a 1970 vintage M36, and shoot +P occasionally out of it - without issue.
I would not worry about the strength of a J-frame
Never gave it much thought since it's steel frame. Agency I was with in the early 1970s issued a Remington 125gr SJHP "Hi Velocity" round for the .38 Special. Still have half a box of it. Hot stuff for the time period. Shot well in my M66, and hurt like heck in the M36. Never cared for the alloy frame revolvers. Yes, they're light to carry, but not so nice to shoot with carry ammo. For practice and plinking, I reload 'mouse [censored]' practice rounds, cast 158 LSWC over 3.0 grains of W231. It suffices to keep the trigger feel in tune and doesn't lead up the barrel. The +P stuff is more uncomfortable to the hand than it likely is on the gun.
 
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