Reasons to use a larger filter?
- Thread starter BullittGT
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My escalade calls for PF46 (short) and my Canyon calls for PF61(long), I have used both filters in both vehicles. I cannot tell the difference even when cutting them open. I do 5-7k mile OCIs
I always try to run a larger filter. Never a negative to have more capacity (volume, media, etc). I had a MASSIVE oil filter on my chevy v8...it actually poked just past the oil pan. Took an extra quart...I wanted more thermal capacity via more oil volume due to my turbo. Easier then changing the oil pan
luckily the Fram Ultra 4967 and 4386 were the same price, so its a no brainer for my Yaris
luckily the Fram Ultra 4967 and 4386 were the same price, so its a no brainer for my Yaris
When GM designed the Gen 5 V8 they upped the oil pressure to 60 psi from 40 psi and guess what; they went to a larger oil filter.
Originally Posted By: BullittGT
Are there any real reasons to use a larger filter? Will it filter any more or anything? I just saw how small the filter for the Q50 is and found out I can use a Titan or GTR filter that is almost 1in larger, but not sure if there is really any benefit to it.
I think the MOST important reason is, because you can.
Are there any real reasons to use a larger filter? Will it filter any more or anything? I just saw how small the filter for the Q50 is and found out I can use a Titan or GTR filter that is almost 1in larger, but not sure if there is really any benefit to it.
I think the MOST important reason is, because you can.
Look at the size difference between the Mahle OC47 and the OC105 - there's an extra litre of oil capacity in some oversize filters.
For a given flow rate, a larger filter will allow a slower passage through the media and therefore a slightly higher filtration efficiency will be achieved.
Lower temps and extended intervals and greater holding capacity are also beneficial.
For a given flow rate, a larger filter will allow a slower passage through the media and therefore a slightly higher filtration efficiency will be achieved.
Lower temps and extended intervals and greater holding capacity are also beneficial.
I just stock Honda filters now and use them on nissans. As said more filter area and holds a little more oil. They have the same bypass pressure rating and same size can other than length.
I am about to pick up a Q50 soon and will run the honda filter on mine.
I am about to pick up a Q50 soon and will run the honda filter on mine.
Originally Posted By: BullittGT
Are there any real reasons to use a larger filter? Will it filter any more or anything? I just saw how small the filter for the Q50 is and found out I can use a Titan or GTR filter that is almost 1in larger, but not sure if there is really any benefit to it.
There is no proven evidence as BITOG usually requests that shows any real world advantages to a larger filter. It is strictly a "feel good" mod, and since it rarely seems to cause any problems then do it if you must. But realize that it is not really doing anything...
Are there any real reasons to use a larger filter? Will it filter any more or anything? I just saw how small the filter for the Q50 is and found out I can use a Titan or GTR filter that is almost 1in larger, but not sure if there is really any benefit to it.
There is no proven evidence as BITOG usually requests that shows any real world advantages to a larger filter. It is strictly a "feel good" mod, and since it rarely seems to cause any problems then do it if you must. But realize that it is not really doing anything...
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: BullittGT
Are there any real reasons to use a larger filter? Will it filter any more or anything? I just saw how small the filter for the Q50 is and found out I can use a Titan or GTR filter that is almost 1in larger, but not sure if there is really any benefit to it.
There is no proven evidence as BITOG usually requests that shows any real world advantages to a larger filter. It is strictly a "feel good" mod, and since it rarely seems to cause any problems then do it if you must. But realize that it is not really doing anything...
Especially if the smaller filter has a higher efficiency rating at 20 microns.
Originally Posted By: BullittGT
Are there any real reasons to use a larger filter? Will it filter any more or anything? I just saw how small the filter for the Q50 is and found out I can use a Titan or GTR filter that is almost 1in larger, but not sure if there is really any benefit to it.
There is no proven evidence as BITOG usually requests that shows any real world advantages to a larger filter. It is strictly a "feel good" mod, and since it rarely seems to cause any problems then do it if you must. But realize that it is not really doing anything...
Especially if the smaller filter has a higher efficiency rating at 20 microns.
BrocLuno said:
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Originally Posted By: Kestas
You mention engineers. Everyone knows cars are designed by bean counters.
They actually are. Engineers aren't giving a blank check and told to produce the best money can buy in most cases. Certainly not in cars and truck you see on the lot. They have hundreds/thousands of other requirements/requests from outside influences.
You mention engineers. Everyone knows cars are designed by bean counters.
They actually are. Engineers aren't giving a blank check and told to produce the best money can buy in most cases. Certainly not in cars and truck you see on the lot. They have hundreds/thousands of other requirements/requests from outside influences.
OK, so MAYBE a larger filter can deliver some advantage.
1) Any maker ever market a "Y" or "splitter"?....simply an adapter where you use 2 OE filters instead of 1.
2) In BIG PICTURE terms, is an additional oil cooler the better thing to do?....one with a thermostat.
1) Any maker ever market a "Y" or "splitter"?....simply an adapter where you use 2 OE filters instead of 1.
2) In BIG PICTURE terms, is an additional oil cooler the better thing to do?....one with a thermostat.
Lots of reasons, as itemized above, to run a larger filter. My biggest one is the pressure against the media of smaller filters. I have experienced torn media as a result. Displacing that pressure across more surface area decreases the risk.
Patman
Staff member
Here is a reason NOT to use a longer filter. This is the oil filter on my Corvette: (this isn't my car but it's exactly how mine looks)
Originally Posted By: bumpasmerc
BrocLuno said:"Many of us are on every other oil change for the filter,"
I have been following the oil filter topic on this site for some time and I have not read many posts saying every other oil change for the filter. Maybe I just missed those.
If this is common practice among those who have extensive experience, I would consider changing my every oil change/ new filter routine.
Well I'm sure this will open many cans of worms, but we have some papers indicating that some retained oil (~15%) will yield lower wear numbers because of already activated AW compounds. Seems these compounds are unique to each engine and operating environment. So Shannow and I are staggering the changes of oil and filters to keep that scenario going.
The State of Cali, Fleet Admin who administers some 10,000 vehicles of all types ran studies in the 1990's on cost effectiveness and efficacy for lubrication schemes in vehicles. Excluding severe service, the studies showed that the most cost effective program was oil changes at 6,000 miles and filters every other time. So this takes into account retained oil every other interval. The majority of their fleet goes over 200,000 miles before auction and are usually running fine when they go out the door.
Filters can go a long way, as long as the oil is not too far into oxidative thickening ... Modern synthetic media filters have plenty of thermal cycle capacity to last a l-o-n-g time on a vehicle. I have run some filters up to five years on seldom used trucks, and they worked out fine. Changing filters each time is like 3,000 mile oil changes. It's OK, but why ... There is some evidence to suggest it might be better to do it other ways
The only true way to do this is like we did in marine. You install gauges on both side of the filter string and monitor for pressure differential. If you see more than 5 PSI across the filters (hot), they need to be changed. Until they do, they stay in place ...
That is way to complex for most folks, so we have the very likely scenario where filters are changed way too often ...
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The benefit of leaving some used oil at an oil change to preserve activated additives is a concept that has been implied on BITOG but I have not had it explained so well until now.
I am now running a Fram Ultra so I am going to try 2 oil changes on that filter.
Thank you for the education.
I am now running a Fram Ultra so I am going to try 2 oil changes on that filter.
Thank you for the education.
Originally Posted By: Patman
Here is a reason NOT to use a longer filter. This is the oil filter on my Corvette: (this isn't my car but it's exactly how mine looks)
And that’s fine. You already have the long filter in your Gen 5 V-8. Look at how the short OEM sized filter looks on a Gen 4:
Here is a reason NOT to use a longer filter. This is the oil filter on my Corvette: (this isn't my car but it's exactly how mine looks)
And that’s fine. You already have the long filter in your Gen 5 V-8. Look at how the short OEM sized filter looks on a Gen 4:
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Cleaner assembled engines, cleaner running engines along
with better oils and better filtering media materials have
resulted in smaller filters in most cases.
A larger filter often doesn't cost any more than the
spec'd size one, and some of us get to sleep better.
with better oils and better filtering media materials have
resulted in smaller filters in most cases.
A larger filter often doesn't cost any more than the
spec'd size one, and some of us get to sleep better.
People saying a larger filter allows more oil in the sump, doesn't that depend on the location of the oil filter ? If it's above the oil level at full normal capacity, a larger filter has zero impact.
That said, my G35 uses a WIX 51358 oil filter (just using WIX for this example) while an 'oversize' filter would be 57356. It's $4 cheaper, at O'Reilly, for the larger filter (likely due to more applications, production quantity, etc). A Fram Ultra, from Walmart, is the same price in either size though.
That said, my G35 uses a WIX 51358 oil filter (just using WIX for this example) while an 'oversize' filter would be 57356. It's $4 cheaper, at O'Reilly, for the larger filter (likely due to more applications, production quantity, etc). A Fram Ultra, from Walmart, is the same price in either size though.
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