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Re-thinking 9/11 and building WTC 7
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oh my. Incoming craziness! Take cover!
I agree, tinman. For some folks, there's just no tinfoil hat big enough.
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My family had offices in WTC-7. Sorry, but the tinfoil stuff has to stop. Clearly, there was no Briggs-Stratton involved.
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Originally Posted By: dwcopple
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Sorry, but the tinfoil stuff has to stop.
Actually, our government just needs to tell us the truth for once.
You are correct, the government does not tell the whole truth. However, in the "information age" we are able to openly discuss what happens, regardless of whether the government admits/tells the story, or not. "Fast-n-Furious" is a great example! We know exactly what happened.
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Sorry, but the tinfoil stuff has to stop.
Actually, our government just needs to tell us the truth for once.
You are correct, the government does not tell the whole truth. However, in the "information age" we are able to openly discuss what happens, regardless of whether the government admits/tells the story, or not. "Fast-n-Furious" is a great example! We know exactly what happened.
Originally Posted By: dwcopple
Actually, our government just needs to tell us the truth for once.
Exactly.
Fact is that a CONSPIRACY did happen, whatever the details are.
BBC reported that WTC 7 collapsed over 20 minutes BEFORE it actually came down.
Actually, our government just needs to tell us the truth for once.
Exactly.
Fact is that a CONSPIRACY did happen, whatever the details are.
BBC reported that WTC 7 collapsed over 20 minutes BEFORE it actually came down.
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Originally Posted By: tinmanSC
oh my. Incoming craziness! Take cover!
x 1,000,000
oh my. Incoming craziness! Take cover!
x 1,000,000
I love the silly comments by some here claiming ANYONE who questions the "official" story is crazy or a tinfoil hat.
Yet many of these very same people will NEVER trust these same officials when it comes to ANY other subject. Think about it.
Now that is crazy.
It's "cognitive dissonance" in action.
Which is also a form of psychological warfare.
Yet many of these very same people will NEVER trust these same officials when it comes to ANY other subject. Think about it.
Now that is crazy.
It's "cognitive dissonance" in action.
Which is also a form of psychological warfare.
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Excellent topic. Richard Gage is right, you don't get a 110 story building to collapse neatly in on its own foot print in 10 seconds flat without explosives; it's physically impossible. The American people can't stomach the idea of their own government bringing those buildings down; so what they have done is put up psychological defense mechanisms to protect themselves mentally.
I was at work when 9-11 happened. We had TVs on so that we could be aware of any important events that took place in the world. I actually saw, real time, the second airliner fly into the second tower. Nobody is going to tell me that terrorists did not bring those towers down.
I worked in a steel fabrication facility before I worked where I work now. There are actually people who think steel does not have a melting temperature and a lot of people in the USA have no experience in industry.
So I am carefully going to explain this. The terrorists made sure they were on airliners that were recently fueled and traveling across the continent. They wanted for the airliners to be full of fuel. Why did they do this? So that there would be a lot of jet fuel to add to the damage and possibly destroy the towers.
The jet fuel, after the airliners crashed into the towers, was burning at very high temperature. Now steel has a melting temperature of about 3000 degrees F. I can't remember the exact temperature off the top of my head. The flames were not that high, but the steel weakened because of the high temperature. Fire insulation that can be covering the beams had been blown off of the steel. When the steel weakened the steel was no longer able to support the weight of the concrete. So one floor crashed into another with more and more weight available to smash the floors below. And there was already a lot of weight available above because the airliners crashed into the towers several floors below the top.
It is like an insult for people to believe these conspiracy theories and not blame the people who were actually responsible. In a video that was captured Osama bin Laden even admitted that the terrorists were responsible. He took credit for the destruction for his terrorist organization. And the terrorists had already attempted to destroy the towers before 9-11 and had committed several acts of terrorism before 9-11.
I am not going to argue with anybody over all of this. If somebody is going to believe that those towers were brought don by controlled detonations by USA government agents that is their problem. Anybody who is logical knows the truth.
Now today there are several conspiracies involving the IRS, etc. Those are the conspiracies we need to be investigating.
I worked in a steel fabrication facility before I worked where I work now. There are actually people who think steel does not have a melting temperature and a lot of people in the USA have no experience in industry.
So I am carefully going to explain this. The terrorists made sure they were on airliners that were recently fueled and traveling across the continent. They wanted for the airliners to be full of fuel. Why did they do this? So that there would be a lot of jet fuel to add to the damage and possibly destroy the towers.
The jet fuel, after the airliners crashed into the towers, was burning at very high temperature. Now steel has a melting temperature of about 3000 degrees F. I can't remember the exact temperature off the top of my head. The flames were not that high, but the steel weakened because of the high temperature. Fire insulation that can be covering the beams had been blown off of the steel. When the steel weakened the steel was no longer able to support the weight of the concrete. So one floor crashed into another with more and more weight available to smash the floors below. And there was already a lot of weight available above because the airliners crashed into the towers several floors below the top.
It is like an insult for people to believe these conspiracy theories and not blame the people who were actually responsible. In a video that was captured Osama bin Laden even admitted that the terrorists were responsible. He took credit for the destruction for his terrorist organization. And the terrorists had already attempted to destroy the towers before 9-11 and had committed several acts of terrorism before 9-11.
I am not going to argue with anybody over all of this. If somebody is going to believe that those towers were brought don by controlled detonations by USA government agents that is their problem. Anybody who is logical knows the truth.
Now today there are several conspiracies involving the IRS, etc. Those are the conspiracies we need to be investigating.
Quote:
Some interesting information..
-1535ºC (2795ºF) - melting point of iron
-1510ºC (2750ºF) - melting point of typical structural steel
-825ºC (1517ºF) - maximum temperature of hydrocarbon fires burning in the atmosphere without pressurization or pre-heating (premixed fuel and air - blue flame)
Diffuse flames burn far cooler.
Oxygen-starved diffuse flames are cooler yet.
The fires in the towers were diffuse -- well below 800ºC.
Their dark smoke showed they were oxygen-starved -- particularly in the South Tower.
Maximum jet fuel burn temperature is 825 Celsius.
Temperature needed to melt structural steel is 1510 Celsius.
LINK
Some interesting information..
-1535ºC (2795ºF) - melting point of iron
-1510ºC (2750ºF) - melting point of typical structural steel
-825ºC (1517ºF) - maximum temperature of hydrocarbon fires burning in the atmosphere without pressurization or pre-heating (premixed fuel and air - blue flame)
Diffuse flames burn far cooler.
Oxygen-starved diffuse flames are cooler yet.
The fires in the towers were diffuse -- well below 800ºC.
Their dark smoke showed they were oxygen-starved -- particularly in the South Tower.
Maximum jet fuel burn temperature is 825 Celsius.
Temperature needed to melt structural steel is 1510 Celsius.
LINK
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Quote:
Some interesting information..
-1535ºC (2795ºF) - melting point of iron
-1510ºC (2750ºF) - melting point of typical structural steel
-825ºC (1517ºF) - maximum temperature of hydrocarbon fires burning in the atmosphere without pressurization or pre-heating (premixed fuel and air - blue flame)
Diffuse flames burn far cooler.
Oxygen-starved diffuse flames are cooler yet.
The fires in the towers were diffuse -- well below 800ºC.
Their dark smoke showed they were oxygen-starved -- particularly in the South Tower.
Maximum jet fuel burn temperature is 825 Celsius.
Temperature needed to melt structural steel is 1510 Celsius.
LINK
Steel weakens to probably about half strength at the temperatures of the fuel fire. But there was also significant structural damage from the massive collision of the jet. With the way WTC tower was constructed, the collision itself could mostly be responsible for causing some of the floors to collapse, collapsing the whole tower like dominoes.
The only conspiracy I see with 9/11 is they probably knew the attack was going to happen, and allowed it to happen to springboard the Iraq war. But didn't realize the terrorist attack would do that much damage.
To believe the government demolished the towers is ridiculous because they didn't need to do that anyway to realize their agenda. No one can dispute the terrorist flew the jets into the towers. That alone without the towers totally collapsing would've gave the gov justification to invade Iraq and Afghanistan.
Quote:
Some interesting information..
-1535ºC (2795ºF) - melting point of iron
-1510ºC (2750ºF) - melting point of typical structural steel
-825ºC (1517ºF) - maximum temperature of hydrocarbon fires burning in the atmosphere without pressurization or pre-heating (premixed fuel and air - blue flame)
Diffuse flames burn far cooler.
Oxygen-starved diffuse flames are cooler yet.
The fires in the towers were diffuse -- well below 800ºC.
Their dark smoke showed they were oxygen-starved -- particularly in the South Tower.
Maximum jet fuel burn temperature is 825 Celsius.
Temperature needed to melt structural steel is 1510 Celsius.
LINK
Steel weakens to probably about half strength at the temperatures of the fuel fire. But there was also significant structural damage from the massive collision of the jet. With the way WTC tower was constructed, the collision itself could mostly be responsible for causing some of the floors to collapse, collapsing the whole tower like dominoes.
The only conspiracy I see with 9/11 is they probably knew the attack was going to happen, and allowed it to happen to springboard the Iraq war. But didn't realize the terrorist attack would do that much damage.
To believe the government demolished the towers is ridiculous because they didn't need to do that anyway to realize their agenda. No one can dispute the terrorist flew the jets into the towers. That alone without the towers totally collapsing would've gave the gov justification to invade Iraq and Afghanistan.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
The only conspiracy I see with 9/11 is they probably knew the attack was going to happen, and allowed it to happen to springboard the Iraq war. But didn't realize the terrorist attack would do that much damage.
To believe the government demolished the towers is ridiculous because they didn't need to do that anyway to realize their agenda. No one can dispute the terrorist flew the jets into the towers. That alone without the towers totally collapsing would've gave the gov justification to invade Iraq and Afghanistan.
Logical & common sense thinking!
The only conspiracy I see with 9/11 is they probably knew the attack was going to happen, and allowed it to happen to springboard the Iraq war. But didn't realize the terrorist attack would do that much damage.
To believe the government demolished the towers is ridiculous because they didn't need to do that anyway to realize their agenda. No one can dispute the terrorist flew the jets into the towers. That alone without the towers totally collapsing would've gave the gov justification to invade Iraq and Afghanistan.
Logical & common sense thinking!
Except the OP is talking about a third tower, WTC 7, that was struck by nothing and only had some internal fires. Some of those fires were dying down when the building collapsed.
There was no jet fuel in there, there was no structural damage from a crash, so how did that building collapse so neatly?
There was no jet fuel in there, there was no structural damage from a crash, so how did that building collapse so neatly?
Whoever did it it certainly got the American public to scream for some action. Homeland security can tap any citizens phones,read their emails,detain them at will,with no counsel and take them to dark rooms where no ones watching for the "advanced" interrogation techniques like waterboarding and so on.
All these basic rights can be immediately suspended if "suspected" of having some form of "terrorist" affiliations,or will be focused on based on religion,due to the "threats" being of a single religious belief system as of late.
They are now free to monitor all forms of communication,social media and if certain words are present you get looked at with far more scrutiny.
Yes,it's for the greater good,because these terrorists need to be vanquished at all costs,so if an American has to give up a bit of privacy then so be it if it quells a murderous plot.
Did you guys know there was a molten mass of iron in the basement of the towers that could be seen from satellites for a weeks.
Molten metal?
Kerosene was supposed to have melted it,and kept it molten and lets get serious. They fell straight down. If the middle floors were weakened then at that weak point the wind at that elevation should have pushed it over,but they went straight down.
Building 7,went straight down.
The elevator shafts are poured concrete 20 inches thick reinforced with steel.
The building around them that was steel could fall whichever way the wind blew it but that shaft should have remained.
And I don't get how if the center of a building is weakened and becomes a hinge point how do the floors below that weren't compromised fall into themselves.
I'm sorry for the loss of life but just look at what happened after they fell. And who benefited.
America suffered a great loss of life on that day,then the American people were dealt another blow but this one eroded away more of that document held so dear. Freedoms not just lost,but asked to be removed,for the safety of the citizens.
Now big brother has a much tighter grip on its borders,and those within them.
All these basic rights can be immediately suspended if "suspected" of having some form of "terrorist" affiliations,or will be focused on based on religion,due to the "threats" being of a single religious belief system as of late.
They are now free to monitor all forms of communication,social media and if certain words are present you get looked at with far more scrutiny.
Yes,it's for the greater good,because these terrorists need to be vanquished at all costs,so if an American has to give up a bit of privacy then so be it if it quells a murderous plot.
Did you guys know there was a molten mass of iron in the basement of the towers that could be seen from satellites for a weeks.
Molten metal?
Kerosene was supposed to have melted it,and kept it molten and lets get serious. They fell straight down. If the middle floors were weakened then at that weak point the wind at that elevation should have pushed it over,but they went straight down.
Building 7,went straight down.
The elevator shafts are poured concrete 20 inches thick reinforced with steel.
The building around them that was steel could fall whichever way the wind blew it but that shaft should have remained.
And I don't get how if the center of a building is weakened and becomes a hinge point how do the floors below that weren't compromised fall into themselves.
I'm sorry for the loss of life but just look at what happened after they fell. And who benefited.
America suffered a great loss of life on that day,then the American people were dealt another blow but this one eroded away more of that document held so dear. Freedoms not just lost,but asked to be removed,for the safety of the citizens.
Now big brother has a much tighter grip on its borders,and those within them.
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