RAM 2500 pickup owners: which 0w40 are you using and why?

[53' Stude]

A fellow member and I were discussing this while ago. Folks that have RAM 2500 truck with the 6.4 HEMI which oil do you use?

I posted about the oil my work uses and someone thinks that’s the “incorrect” or wrong oil. Let’s discuss this.

Thank You

 

[Timmastertech]

We use the Pennzoil SRT 0W40. Easiest thing for us to get that meets MS-12633 and no question as to whether we put the correct oil in them

 

[Tyson]

2020 Ram 2500 6.4 gasser. Bought it brand spanking new.

I went in circles about which oil to use.

I ended up at a backyard BBQ with a fleet mechanic that services a lot Ram HD gassers.

He said change every 4-5k miles with any 0w-40 or 5w-40 full synthetic and there won't be any issues.

They use bulk full synthetic 5w-40, rated for both spark and compression.

I've used Mobil 1 Euro 0w-40 and QS Euro 5w-40, NAPA Gold and Mobil 1 filters.

 

[SugarMouth]

I'll be using up my stash (23 qts) of 5W-40 QS Euro on my 6.4 Charger but likely will be buying more QS Euro if it goes on sale again for use in the Charger. OCI will be between 4.5k and 5k.

I can not believe that a Euro oil which carries approvals for BMW, Porsche and Merc (which includes DI and FI) would not take care of a N/A, non DI, low revving V8.

 

[The Critic]

If it is under warranty, the only correct oil is the Pennzoil SRT 0W-40 product. I would avoid any "euro" 0W-40 that is full SAPS due to potential damage to the catalyst.

 

[spasm3]

HPL Premium Plus 0w-40. Its a high moly , ester/an oil. I may use the supercar next year.

 

[SGT392]

I use any euro 0w40 or 5w40 flavor that’s on sale in my hellcat. 84k miles and still going strong. Don’t get caught up on the pennzoil/dodge “srt” oil. They are in bed together just like Chevy/Mobil. As for euro oils hurting cats I’ve never had a issue over the years and have never personally known anyone with failed cats for that reason. If your burning that much oil to kill your cats well you got bigger problems to worry about.

 

[SugarMouth]

If it is under warranty, the only correct oil is the Pennzoil SRT 0W-40 product. I would avoid any "euro" 0W-40 that is full SAPS due to potential damage to the catalyst.

Please explain why the cat on the Hemi is unique to the cats on the euro vehicles and how this difference would cause damage.

 

[The Critic]

Please explain why the cat on the Hemi is unique to the cats on the euro vehicles and how this difference would cause damage.

It isn’t. But vehicles that originally spec’ed full saps oils have undergone testing during development to ensure that their catalysts can last the full length of the emissions warranty. Those catalytic converters may contain more precious metals (than yours) in order to make it thru warranty.

As emissions standards have tightened, maintaining catalyst performance has become more critical, which is why you see a greater focus on catalyst performance now than ever before. Like I mentioned earlier, most euro cars no longer specify full SAPS oils.

 

[OVERKILL]

It isn’t. But vehicles that originally spec’ed full saps oils have undergone testing during development to ensure that their catalysts can last the full length of the emissions warranty. Those catalytic converters may contain more precious metals (than yours) in order to make it thru warranty.

As emissions standards have tightened, maintaining catalyst performance has become more critical, which is why you see a greater focus on catalyst performance now than ever before. Like I mentioned earlier, most euro cars no longer specify full SAPS oils.

Important point here:
- mid/low-SAPS Euro oil (w/GPF): 900ppm phosphorous
- full-SAPS Euro oil (w/o GPF): 1000ppm phosphorous
- API/ILSAC "resource conserving": 600-800ppm phosphorous

The "Emissions Systems Protection" Euro oils are actually closer to the phosphorous levels of the full-SAPS oils than they are to the API stuff.

And this only matters if the phosphorous is making its way to the catalyst (or DPF), which requires that the engine consume oil.

 

[OVERKILL]

As an aside, and somewhat amusing, but Valvoline recommends their 0W-40 for the Chrysler 6.4 and 6.2 applications, despite this oil being full-SAPS:

 

[SugarMouth]

As an aside, and somewhat amusing, but Valvoline recommends their 0W-40 for the Chrysler 6.4 and 6.2 applications, despite this oil being full-SAPS:

Interesting! MS12633.

QSFS 5W-40 lands closer to the "mid/low-SAPS Euro oil (w/GPF): 900ppm phosphorous" category I believe. https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...ate-durability-full-syn-5w40-european.341465/

 

[SugarMouth]

It isn’t. But vehicles that originally spec’ed full saps oils have undergone testing during development to ensure that their catalysts can last the full length of the emissions warranty. Those catalytic converters may contain more precious metals (than yours) in order to make it thru warranty.

As emissions standards have tightened, maintaining catalyst performance has become more critical, which is why you see a greater focus on catalyst performance now than ever before. Like I mentioned earlier, most euro cars no longer specify full SAPS oils.

I'm understanding the message, I'm just trying to wrap my head around why Chrysler's cats would be unique. Leaving warranty out of it, would you continue to use your remaining stash of QSFS 5W-40 or would you go to a MS12633 and leave the QSFS on the shelf if it was your vehicle?

 

[ka9mnx]

Interesting! MS12633.

QSFS 5W-40 lands closer to the "mid/low-SAPS Euro oil (w/GPF): 900ppm phosphorous" category I believe. https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...ate-durability-full-syn-5w40-european.341465/

The "new" QSFS 5w-40 is also API SP. The "old" QSUD 5w-40 was API SN.

 

[OVERKILL]

The "new" QSFS 5w-40 is also API SP. The "old" QSUD 5w-40 was API SN.

For an xW-40 that really only means that they are subbing magnesium for calcium for LSPI mitigation (if they are even doing that, as ZDDP is an LSPI mitigator), the phosphorous limits don't apply to xW-40's and xW-50's.

 

[OVERKILL]

I'm understanding the message, I'm just trying to wrap my head around why Chrysler's cats would be unique. Leaving warranty out of it, would you continue to use your remaining stash of QSFS 5W-40 or would you go to a MS12633 and leave the QSFS on the shelf if it was your vehicle?

They aren't unique.

None of my 6.4's have consumed any discernible oil between changes either.

What one has to consider about catalyst poisoning is that it's cumulative. It's like lead poisoning in the body or mercury, it doesn't get processed out. So, if you are consuming enough oil to kill the cats with phosphorous, whether it's 700ppm or 1,000ppm, the end result is the same, you'll reach that fatal concentration at some point. Would be easy enough to toss this into a spreadsheet and compare the two, but consider federal emissions warranty requirements and allowance for oil consumption by OEM's for "acceptable" as well as the pretty low bar set by the API for performance and it's pretty easy to read between the lines as to why API phosphorous limits for xW-30 oils and below are so low.

For Euro approvals, the quality of the oils is higher, because the approvals are more stringent, and so we aren't seeing the same crack-down on phosphorous as we do with the API despite the prolific use of GPF's. Even for light oils like M1 ESP X2 0W-20, phosphorous is at 880ppm, above the API limit, while EP 0W-20 is 760ppm. EP High Mileage is right at the limit at 800ppm.

And note that xW-40's and xW-50's are not required to have low levels of phosphorous by the API, it only applies to lighter oils.

 

[OVERKILL]

Interesting! MS12633.

QSFS 5W-40 lands closer to the "mid/low-SAPS Euro oil (w/GPF): 900ppm phosphorous" category I believe. https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...ate-durability-full-syn-5w40-european.341465/

Seems to slot in the middle there between M1 ESP X3 0W-40 (900ppm) and M1 FS 0W-40 (1,000ppm), having over 900ppm of phosphorous.

 

[ka9mnx]

For an xW-40 that really only means that they are subbing magnesium for calcium for LSPI mitigation (if they are even doing that, as ZDDP is an LSPI mitigator), the phosphorous limits don't apply to xW-40's and xW-50's.

In the case of QS both magnesium and calcium and phosphorus and zinc are lower in the SP version.

 

[OLEJOE]

Using PUP 0-40 in mine so far. 9200 miles. Have changed it 3 times so far. 768, 4153,& 7993 miles. Plan to change it every 4,000. Would be interested to know what bulk 5-40 they were using for the fleet trucks. Thought about using Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5-40 simply because it is easier to find than the PUP. Have to order it from Amazon. Not available locally anywhere. Also no 0-40 of any brand available at 3 different Walmarts or Sam’s.

 

[OVERKILL]

In the case of QS both magnesium and calcium and phosphorus and zinc are lower in the SP version.

View attachment 120536

View attachment 120537

That doesn't look related to the change from SN to SP. You'll note that phosphorous is still above the limit for the lower grades.

What's more interesting is that calcium was only reduced by a smidge (assuming these VOA's are reasonable accurate), going from 1519 to 1464, not sure how close to being within the margin or error this is, and Magnesium went DOWN, which is odd. But at first blush, the reduction in ZDDP and the basic non-change in calcium, if anything, would increase LSPI propensity.

That said, calcium is quite low already compared to older formulas. I'd like to see a few more VOA's to confirm that the oil actually changed, as these are all very close and we could just be seeing batch variation.