Napa Proformer Oil Filter and M1 5w20

[RAVL]

Good morning. In an effort to control household costs and to get better service, I started taking my two trucks (a 2016 4Runner and a 2020 Ram 1500 5.7 etorque) to a well regarded local gas station/service center. The multifranchise dealer for both trucks was relentlessly upselling services not in the manual, and I found evidence that they were not being careful - for example they stripped the bolts on the TRD skid plate on my 4Runner and did not tell me.

The new shop uses Mobil One when a full synthetic oil change is requested. On the Toyota, it is 0w20, and for the Ram it is 5w20 super synthetic. They also use Napa as a supplier for filters. The work done on both trucks so far seems well done - I am a car guy and consider myself fairly knowledgeable - but I am concerned about the oil filters being used as I would typically use the filter from the dealer to avoid problems or cheap knockoffs. They are using Napa Profromers. But again both trucks run very quiet and smooth, no consumption or weird noises, etc. (The M1 super synthetic data sheet states that it meets or exceeds the Chrysler MS 6395 standard - I checked before allowing it to be used.)

Also, I change the oil in both trucks about every 5k-6k. This is typically while the oil life is about 40-something percent on the minder (Ram only; Toyota just tells you service due soon) and is conservative according to oil analysis but we do a lot of short trips running the kids here and there. I also note that on the Ram, within a few thousand miles of the dealer standard oil change you would get hemi tick very briefly at start up. With the full synthetic M1 SS, you don’t hear that tick, ever.

Question is whether I should supply my own filters next service or is that overkill when you are doing full synthetic changes every 5k-6k?

Thank you in advance. Hope to be a helpful member here.

 

[Lubener]

If you have to supply your own filters, you should just do it yourself and be assured everything was done right. That would control your household costs even better.

 

[Rogueman2016s]

They’re good filters, they’ll meet the manufacturers specifications and requirements.

 

[bbhero]

If your Napa is like mine the Proformer oil filter is a Premium Guard made filter. Which is a very well constructed filter with decent efficiency. I got a Proformer for my lady’s RAV 4… They are a good choice.

 

[RAVL]

If you have to supply your own filters, you should just do it yourself and be assured everything was done right. That would control your household costs even better.

Thanks although that is not the question I asked. By the time you buy the oil and the filter (the Ram takes 7 quarts), put some value on my time, plus proper disposal, there is not much money saved. Plus the Ram requires a tire rotation each oil change and that is more than I want to do without a lift. Former amateur racer so not afraid to get my hands dirty but it is a question of time allocation. Thanks again.

 

[cptbarkey]

When I purchased my GX 460 early this year it had a Napa proformer and it looks very adequate.

If you want to control costs, do your own oil changes. Your thoughts about "time allocation" are interesting, but in the amount of time you wrote this post i would have already been halfway through the change. Also, who do you trust more exactly?

 

[ATex7239]

I would not worry about it at all but that is me. If you’re concerned about the filter then purchase what you like and bring it for them to install. Doesn’t sound like the oil is a concern and it shouldn’t be.

 

[bullwinkle]

Good morning. In an effort to control household costs and to get better service, I started taking my two trucks (a 2016 4Runner and a 2020 Ram 1500 5.7 etorque) to a well regarded local gas station/service center. The multifranchise dealer for both trucks was relentlessly upselling services not in the manual, and I found evidence that they were not being careful - for example they stripped the bolts on the TRD skid plate on my 4Runner and did not tell me.

The new shop uses Mobil One when a full synthetic oil change is requested. On the Toyota, it is 0w20, and for the Ram it is 5w20 super synthetic. They also use Napa as a supplier for filters. The work done on both trucks so far seems well done - I am a car guy and consider myself fairly knowledgeable - but I am concerned about the oil filters being used as I would typically use the filter from the dealer to avoid problems or cheap knockoffs. They are using Napa Profromers. But again both trucks run very quiet and smooth, no consumption or weird noises, etc. (The M1 super synthetic data sheet states that it meets or exceeds the Chrysler MS 6395 standard - I checked before allowing it to be used.)

Also, I change the oil in both trucks about every 5k-6k. This is typically while the oil life is about 40-something percent on the minder (Ram only; Toyota just tells you service due soon) and is conservative according to oil analysis but we do a lot of short trips running the kids here and there. I also note that on the Ram, within a few thousand miles of the dealer standard oil change you would get hemi tick very briefly at start up. With the full synthetic M1 SS, you don’t hear that tick, ever.

Question is whether I should supply my own filters next service or is that overkill when you are doing full synthetic changes every 5k-6k?

Thank you in advance. Hope to be a helpful member here.

What does your shop charge for a full syn oil change? My local indy mechanic has been running a full synthetic oil change with a silicone ADBV (Service Pro Dexos and Service Pro XL/Premium Guard XL filter) for $45, plus $20 for rotation & brake inspection. My stash can beat those prices, if I had to buy M1 & a decent filter retail it would almost be a wash...

 

[RAVL]

I appreciate people offering additional ways to save, it has been a challenging few years on the cost side. My cost to do an oil change is:
Mobil 1 synthetic 5w20 from Walmart: $40 for a 5 quart container times 3 = 120 but divided by 2 because that covers two changes, so $60. Filter on the Ram from the dealer is $18. Toyota similar. Can do better online but with shipping it’s not a huge savings unless I want to stock them which I don’t like to do for the same reason Toyota likes just in time - it is not efficient to leave things on a shelf unused for months and years. So say my cost is ~$75 do a change, plus the time to recycle the oil and time to do the tire rotation. Shop charges $100 with the rotation. For $25 I will save the hour or two involved with the tire rotation and running around to dispose of used oil properly. When I do things myself, I value my time at $50 per hour. Just my .02 but appreciate the helpful feedback on the proformer filter.

On my 94 BMW (M60) I do the oil and filter myself primarily because no shop, even good BMW shops, stock the 15w40 or 15w50 that the owner’s manual specifies for the climate here in North America. Lower viscosity oils like the 5w30s and 5w40s in that car is a no no when at hot idle you have only about 8psi of oil pressure spec. I have owned that car for over 25 years so I remember when it was still dealer serviced and they used the 15w oils. At 180k, the M60 v8 sounds like new.

Thanks again for the helpful feedback.

 

[kschachn]

On my 94 BMW (M60) I do the oil and filter myself primarily because no shop, even good BMW shops, stock the 15w40 or 15w50 that the owner’s manual specifies for the climate here in North America. Lower viscosity oils like the 5w30s and 5w40s in that car is a no no when at hot idle you have only about 8psi of oil pressure spec. I have owned that car for over 25 years so I remember when it was still dealer serviced and they used the 15w oils. At 180k, the M60 v8 sounds like new.

There is little need for that. How have you been measuring your oil pressure? As a former long-term E34 530i owner any oil with BMW Longlife-01 approval is going to have an HT/HS of at least 3.5 regardless of the winter rating or the grade. You've measured this oil pressure using a LL-01 oil?

The M60 was the best part of that car and the engine was in great condition until the end.

 

[RAVL]

I have been following the guidance in the manual for 25 years now. Unless you live in a polar climate, the chart is pretty clear. I would photograph and post it but the car is hibernating for the winter. Yes, you can certainly use a different viscosity, but then you are not following what is in the manual. I don’t see any point chasing a few tenths of a mile per gallon by using an oil that does not meet what is specified. If people want to do differently based on what they read on the internet, more power to them but when I have had this discussion over the years, and I ask for something in writing from BMW showing that, for example a 5w30 is appropriate in an M60, it never comes. The manual, however, is very clear and definitive. And it accords with what was used when the car was new. So as far as I am concerned, that is the least risky and most appropriate approach.


Listen, I have no issue using the 5w20
In my Ram or the 0w20 in my Toyota, for the same reason - that is what the manufacturer specifies in the manual. Are there people who do differently and live to tell about it? Sure, but that doesn’t change the reality that this is not the manufacturer recommendation, and so the owner is putting himself or herself in the place of second guessing the people who made the car.

 

[kschachn]

Grade recommendations in an owner’s manual are just that, recommendations. And really when it comes to protection from wear then it’s better represented by HT/HS not grade. A LL-01 oil has a requirement for a minimum 3.5 HT/HS which provides for excellent wear protection. This is different than an ILSAC 30-grade oil.

You’re not second guessing anyone here this is basic physics. And BMW has back-specified LL-01 oils to this engine through a service letter many years ago. That’s in writing if you choose to seek it out. These oils are superior in many ways and are an improvement over what was recommended (and available) back in 1994. There is no need to post the manual chart as I still have the manuals for my old BMW.

Nevertheless perhaps you should continue your historical actions if you are this concerned about the manual recommendations.

 

[DuckRyder]

I see no issue with your plan. However, make sure you are getting Mobil 1 and not Mobil Super, they aren't the same thing and some places like to play loose with terminology. AFAIK there is no such thing as "M1 super synthetic".

As mentioned the Proformer is considered a good filter. You can pick up as good and better at Walmart when picking up oil if you decide to go that route.

I get considering your time, don't forget to consider having to recheck their work and fix what they broke (IE: stripped skid plate bolts).

 

[ATex7239]

So say my cost is ~$75 do a change, plus the time to recycle the oil and time to do the tire rotation. Shop charges $100 with the rotation. For $25 I will save the hour or two involved with the tire rotation and running around to dispose of used oil properly. When I do things myself, I value my time at $50 per hour. Just my .02 but appreciate the helpful feedback on the proformer filter.

Totally understand this sentiment. Sometimes when I am crazy busy I will get oil changes done. In fact I have yet to even change on the oil myself on the Elantra. I might do it myself this spring when it’s due… or I might not.

 

[RAVL]

Thanks DuckRyder. Appreciate the heads up. I will double check but it was supposed to be full synthetic. Fwiw, the Toyota dealer stripped the skid plate bolts, tightened the drain plug to what I call “gorilla level”, and didn’t remove the hub center caps before removing the wheels, and in the process creating score marks in the lug wells. After that visit, I said “no more.” The Ram dealer, same company, different location, is a little better but tries to sell an alignment with each oil change, and wants to change all filters every year as part of a $700 something care package/. But hey they include new wipers too for that price. No thanks.

Kschachn- I see you took some offense to my post. That wasn’t my intention. But if it were me, and someone owned a car for two going on three decades and was following what was in the original manual, I wouldn’t presume to tell them it is unnecessary or historical. Peace.

 

[kschachn]

Kschachn- I see you took some offense to my post. That wasn’t my intention. But if it were me, and someone owned a car for two going on three decades and was following what was in the original manual, I wouldn’t presume to tell them it is unnecessary or historical. Peace.

No offense at all.

For what it's worth here is the BMW list of "Technically appropriate engine oils for BMW Group engines" which you can also find elsewhere. Note that it's by approval, not grade which is irrelevant for the approvals (except for the truly defective engines that were attempted to be saved with 10W-60). BMW M60 engines are listed via note 2).

https://www.bimmerfest.com/attachments/20221017_170729_sbs-anl-sbs1996-110796138_a3_vin7-xxxxxxx-pdf.1083111/

 

[RAVL]

No offense at all.

For what it's worth here is the BMW list of "Technically appropriate engine oils for BMW Group engines" which you can also find elsewhere. Note that it's by approval, not grade which is irrelevant for the approvals (except for the truly defective engines that were attempted to be saved with 10W-60). BMW M60 engines are listed via note 2).

https://www.bimmerfest.com/attachments/20221017_170729_sbs-anl-sbs1996-110796138_a3_vin7-xxxxxxx-pdf.1083111/

Very interesting. But forget about the M60 for a moment, there is no way any knowledgeable BMW owner would put anything other than an 10w40 (winter), 15w40, 15w50, or 20w50 into an M20 or M30. Unless you want to add two or three quarts between 7500 mile changes. I have owned all of those motors, and raced several. I will look this over more carefully, but I am mot going to change what I have been doing for about 27 years now. The funny thing is that they argue viscosity is now irrelevant it seems but I don’t know how that squares with the fact that viscosity is chosen in large measure by expected operating temp and main bearing clearances. I do know guys who would use say a 5w40 or 5w30 in an M50 or S50 and then complain of the pressure “kettle” flashing briefly at hot idle. And then act surprised when it went away when the original 15w40 was used. Those debates are all many years ago because no one owns these cars anymore, most of them have disappeared. It is what it is.

 

[kschachn]

Again it's about the HT/HS not the grade when it comes to approvals. Winter rating is relatively unimportant except for how it relates to your expected starting temperature. There's really no way to globally say that any oil with a 5W winter rating has a higher HT/HS than the same grade with a 15W rating. The two are not strictly connected.

In your example above I would not use any oil with a 10W winter rating where the starting temperature is below 0F. It is not guaranteed to be pumpable. It may pump below that temperature but there's no technical reason to do so. The 10W rated oil will not protect better.

 

[ka9mnx]

I wouldn't get too hung up on 27 year old manufacturers oil spec. Oil technology has changed a lot since then.

My 1993 Ford F150 came out of the factory with 10w-30. Shortly after, a Ford TSB came out changing the spec to 5w30.
Around the year 2000, another Ford TSB came out changing the oil spec to 5w-20 which is current.

I'm using 5w-40 Euro oil which is light years better for your vehicle than what was recommended 27 years ago. It's about HTHS, not grade.

 

[Rogueman2016s]

Can it also be chance, luck and the vehicle itself. I like to use my sister 03 Corolla S as example and I’m sure there’s many other people with similar results. She sold the vehicle around 3 yrs ago the vehicle is still running with 300,000 on the clock. Used super tech or fram extra guard oil filters and for the longest I know my brother in law used castrol GTX or super tech 5w30 never seen synthetic in their 260k miles they had the car. Occasionally the vehicle seen a local independent shop so it had jobber filters and whatever bulk in a drum of 5w30. That’s really following the owners manual when it comes to oil recommendation.