I live in Orlando. Yesterday I had my oil changed by a Toyota dealership. I own a 2000 Lexus rx300 with 265,000 - yes 265,000, miles. I had always used 10w30 for the last 215,000 miles. Last night Toyota replace my 10W30 with 5W20. Less than 15 miles later my engine froze up and was towed to the Toyota dealership. They are dismantling the engine this weekend to determine the cause of the "freeze up". We are not sure if just one rod is the cause or all of them as I contest they forgot to put oil in my car in the first place. They covered their tracks and said the dipstick showed oil but when my wife checked the dipstick at the time it happened, both her any the tow company states there was no oil showing on the dipstick. Toyota is trying to tell me the sludge issue with Lexus is the probable cause. Any thoughts?
Question regarding changing oil from 10W30 to 5W20
- Thread starter SteveD1
- Start date
- Status
5w20 would not cause instant failure. The logical conclusion is that No oil in the crankcase would cause sudden failure as described. They are grasping at straws bringing up the sludge issue. Monitor and photo document all work.
I thought toyota extended there covrage for the motors that get sludge anyway!!
anywho, 5w20 would not cause this. Get the tow guy to sign a statement, talk to the distric manager, and give him the card to your lawyer if he gives you any trouble.
anywho, 5w20 would not cause this. Get the tow guy to sign a statement, talk to the distric manager, and give him the card to your lawyer if he gives you any trouble.
I agree with the others......
But why would a dealer put 5W-20 in that engine?
You should get a sample of the oil if it's not too late.
But why would a dealer put 5W-20 in that engine?
You should get a sample of the oil if it's not too late.
Originally Posted By: SteveD1
I live in Orlando. Yesterday I had my oil changed by a Toyota dealership. I own a 2000 Lexus rx300 with 265,000 - yes 265,000, miles. I had always used 10w30 for the last 215,000 miles. Last night Toyota replace my 10W30 with 5W20. Less than 15 miles later my engine froze up and was towed to the Toyota dealership. They are dismantling the engine this weekend to determine the cause of the "freeze up". We are not sure if just one rod is the cause or all of them as I contest they forgot to put oil in my car in the first place. They covered their tracks and said the dipstick showed oil but when my wife checked the dipstick at the time it happened, both her any the tow company states there was no oil showing on the dipstick. Toyota is trying to tell me the sludge issue with Lexus is the probable cause. Any thoughts?
It is a fact that the newer Toyota engines have been plagued with sludge problems but it is also true that it took a long time for Toyota to kinda confess to the issue. If your local deal
ership changed your oil since new then you might be able to have then repair the engine if you can pull your records. Depending how many miles you put on your engine you might consider flushing the engine annualy to combat the possibility of sludge. This is assuming you get the engine running again.
My 89' Camry is now useing M1 5W-30 synthetic as a standard and am having good results. In the beginning it did leak about a quart/month but suddenly stopped so I don't always check the dipstick.
Quick note, If there was no oil in the crankcase then why didn't the oil light come on???? They may be right if the warning light didn't come on.
Durango
I live in Orlando. Yesterday I had my oil changed by a Toyota dealership. I own a 2000 Lexus rx300 with 265,000 - yes 265,000, miles. I had always used 10w30 for the last 215,000 miles. Last night Toyota replace my 10W30 with 5W20. Less than 15 miles later my engine froze up and was towed to the Toyota dealership. They are dismantling the engine this weekend to determine the cause of the "freeze up". We are not sure if just one rod is the cause or all of them as I contest they forgot to put oil in my car in the first place. They covered their tracks and said the dipstick showed oil but when my wife checked the dipstick at the time it happened, both her any the tow company states there was no oil showing on the dipstick. Toyota is trying to tell me the sludge issue with Lexus is the probable cause. Any thoughts?
It is a fact that the newer Toyota engines have been plagued with sludge problems but it is also true that it took a long time for Toyota to kinda confess to the issue. If your local deal
ership changed your oil since new then you might be able to have then repair the engine if you can pull your records. Depending how many miles you put on your engine you might consider flushing the engine annualy to combat the possibility of sludge. This is assuming you get the engine running again.
My 89' Camry is now useing M1 5W-30 synthetic as a standard and am having good results. In the beginning it did leak about a quart/month but suddenly stopped so I don't always check the dipstick.
Quick note, If there was no oil in the crankcase then why didn't the oil light come on???? They may be right if the warning light didn't come on.
Durango
Last edited:
hummm....15 miles before it seize up?
(1) oil pressure light should have come on if your engine loose pressure. Given that it's 5W20 it would still kick in the pressure light as a warning. So, naturally , my question for you is, did you see an oil pressure light (aka "idiot light" comes on on your dashboard?
(2) no coolant. Lack of coolant or very low in coolant would have lead to almost immediate engine "seizure", assuming what your interpretation of "seizure" is--> engine totally seize up to the point of frozen, and no futher movement can be had from it's movable components.
I would demand to have a serious talk with the store manager/owner, and also take this matter to Lexus district manager or so to bring to their attention before any actual repair work begins. Also take lots of photos and do not refuse the idea of getting some second opinions from other professionals (lawyers, other mechanics, etc.) just to keep those "stealership" folks from going astray....
My 2c's worth.
Q.
(1) oil pressure light should have come on if your engine loose pressure. Given that it's 5W20 it would still kick in the pressure light as a warning. So, naturally , my question for you is, did you see an oil pressure light (aka "idiot light" comes on on your dashboard?
(2) no coolant. Lack of coolant or very low in coolant would have lead to almost immediate engine "seizure", assuming what your interpretation of "seizure" is--> engine totally seize up to the point of frozen, and no futher movement can be had from it's movable components.
I would demand to have a serious talk with the store manager/owner, and also take this matter to Lexus district manager or so to bring to their attention before any actual repair work begins. Also take lots of photos and do not refuse the idea of getting some second opinions from other professionals (lawyers, other mechanics, etc.) just to keep those "stealership" folks from going astray....
My 2c's worth.
Q.
As retarded as I think it was for them to put a 5-20 in a motor with that many miles that worked so well with a 10-30, it's probably not the thin oil. A complete seizure is a sure sign it didn't have any oil in it. Even if the 5-20 was too thin it would be a more gradual death like a few thousand miles.
I'm thinking if there was no oil in the crankcase, the engine should've froze up way before 15 miles.
Heck, even water should have lasted more than 12 miles.
Exactly why my car never sees a mechanic other than myself.
Sorry to hear about your misfortune.
I'm sure they won't take any responsibility for the damage,and you'll be forced to buy a new lexus,which really ain't so bad.
Sorry to hear about your misfortune.
I'm sure they won't take any responsibility for the damage,and you'll be forced to buy a new lexus,which really ain't so bad.
Did the dealership tell you they put in 5W20 or are you assuming?
After 15 miles, the oil is not even at operating temperature. The oil hasn't thin down to the viscosity of a 20 weight. During warm up, the oil is still much thicker than the 10W30.
Assuming you did 5k OCIs, you had 53 oil changes. So in the 265,000 miles and 53 OCs you had on the Lexus, the 10W30 never once sheered to a 20 weight?
You should have taken pictures with your camera phone of the dip stick with no oil on it... for evidence. I think they probably dropped something into the filler hole or they forgot to put on an oil filter.
After 15 miles, the oil is not even at operating temperature. The oil hasn't thin down to the viscosity of a 20 weight. During warm up, the oil is still much thicker than the 10W30.
Assuming you did 5k OCIs, you had 53 oil changes. So in the 265,000 miles and 53 OCs you had on the Lexus, the 10W30 never once sheered to a 20 weight?
You should have taken pictures with your camera phone of the dip stick with no oil on it... for evidence. I think they probably dropped something into the filler hole or they forgot to put on an oil filter.
Last edited:
Almost certainly a low oil problem, or [distant second] a severe oil filter problem.
The tear-down of the engine will likely reveal lack of lubrication or otherwise.
I change my own oil, but if I did get changes done at a shop I'd check that dipstick first thing.....a) to make sure they actually changed it and b) to make sure there is oil in it!
I change my own oil, but if I did get changes done at a shop I'd check that dipstick first thing.....a) to make sure they actually changed it and b) to make sure there is oil in it!
No oil was probably put in. Should be very apparent that the seizure was caused by no oil rather than sludge induced oil starvation. It would take a lot of sludge to cause total seizure.
Which should be like night and day difference.
Which should be like night and day difference.
Originally Posted By: 02zx9r
unfortunately for you it is not a happy
to bitog
if made it 15 miles maybe the drain plug wasn’t in securely and it finally came out at the 14 mile mark and at 15 it finally seized up from lack of oil?
That's what I was thinking. It could be that they refilled it, but it had a severe leak that caused it to leak somewhere down the road... maybe from the oil filter or the drain plug (or both!), or they just didn't put any oil in, and it seized up down the road. Either of those sound logical to me. Logical, but unfortunate... Sorry to hear about the SUV, OP.
unfortunately for you it is not a happy
if made it 15 miles maybe the drain plug wasn’t in securely and it finally came out at the 14 mile mark and at 15 it finally seized up from lack of oil?
That's what I was thinking. It could be that they refilled it, but it had a severe leak that caused it to leak somewhere down the road... maybe from the oil filter or the drain plug (or both!), or they just didn't put any oil in, and it seized up down the road. Either of those sound logical to me. Logical, but unfortunate... Sorry to hear about the SUV, OP.
The only thing I can think of is cross threaded oil filter, or loose drain plug. I use to work at a Toyota/Lexus Dealer.
And if we messed up an engine, we made it right. By whatever it took. One time we had a guy come in with a 1992 Camry for a valve job with 350k. Everything was done correctly. On the road test the block threw a rod through the pan. (No oil light, no noise, it just happened) We took care of the guys bill and replaced the engine assy with a used one that had 65k. He was happy.
You should have no problem getting them to replace the engine assy for you, if it happened in 15 miles after the change.
Especially if there was no oil in the engine.
If they give you a hard time, call the local Toyota rep.
He'll make sure it gets done.
On a side note these engines are super strong, and we normally don't do this, so please don't go off on how you can never trust a dealer. We only did this b/c (1) we were replacing the Entire engine, and were going to junk the other, (2) we also wanted to test the strength of the 1MZ-FE, & (3) It was a saturday and it we had no work.
One saturday we had a RX like yours scheduled for an engine replacement due to sludge. We had a COMPLETE Assy for it.
So we drained the oil, fired it up, and tried to blow it up.
We ran it at 5000 Rpm for 40 min, with no oil. And it still didn't blow. It knocked like a mother, but it didn't blow.
It had been knocking for a while prior to us bring it in the bay.
After we dropped the pan, we found that the oil pickup screen was completely clogged with sludge.
My point in mentioning this story is that these engines are very strong.
Anyway, I hope that the dealer does the right thing and replaces the engine for you. If they give you a hard time, call the rep.
And let us know what happens.
Justin
And if we messed up an engine, we made it right. By whatever it took. One time we had a guy come in with a 1992 Camry for a valve job with 350k. Everything was done correctly. On the road test the block threw a rod through the pan. (No oil light, no noise, it just happened) We took care of the guys bill and replaced the engine assy with a used one that had 65k. He was happy.
You should have no problem getting them to replace the engine assy for you, if it happened in 15 miles after the change.
Especially if there was no oil in the engine.
If they give you a hard time, call the local Toyota rep.
He'll make sure it gets done.
On a side note these engines are super strong, and we normally don't do this, so please don't go off on how you can never trust a dealer. We only did this b/c (1) we were replacing the Entire engine, and were going to junk the other, (2) we also wanted to test the strength of the 1MZ-FE, & (3) It was a saturday and it we had no work.
One saturday we had a RX like yours scheduled for an engine replacement due to sludge. We had a COMPLETE Assy for it.
So we drained the oil, fired it up, and tried to blow it up.
We ran it at 5000 Rpm for 40 min, with no oil. And it still didn't blow. It knocked like a mother, but it didn't blow.
It had been knocking for a while prior to us bring it in the bay.
After we dropped the pan, we found that the oil pickup screen was completely clogged with sludge.
My point in mentioning this story is that these engines are very strong.
Anyway, I hope that the dealer does the right thing and replaces the engine for you. If they give you a hard time, call the rep.
And let us know what happens.
Justin
It's quite possible that there may have been a problem that was building up slowly (given these engines have a history of sludging ), and your engine just happen to give out after a little more abuse -- dealer didn't put oil in for oil change -- so that pushed it over the cliff.
You might look at this event as a stroke of luck.
If your engine had seized 15 miles before you went to the dealer for an oil change -- you'd be down the creek with no paddle. Since it seized 15 miles after a dealer oil change -- a lot of arrows are pointing at the dealer.
Was the engine already burning (or using) a large amount of oil between oil changes? That could be a sign that the engine was having "problems" before you brought it in.
You might look at this event as a stroke of luck.
Was the engine already burning (or using) a large amount of oil between oil changes? That could be a sign that the engine was having "problems" before you brought it in.
- Status
Similar threads
