If the filter is doing it's job
My followup question would be ... how likely are these two bits to make it through a bypass valve opening?
We seem to focus on oil changes on the new cars, but another aspect is the filter change.
If the filter is doing it's job
Remember when maintenance was free on BMWs for 4 years. This included oil, wipers, brake pads, brake rotors (BMW back then did rotor replacements with every pad change), etc.Not necessary. Our Honda Odyssey has the
factory fill oil in it and the OLM is 20%. Dealership won’t touch it for the free oil change until 15% when the wrench light comes on. 99% of cars on the road have not had early oil changes and many have hundreds of thousands of miles on them.
I think that once the bits are caught in between the filter pleats, it is unlikely that they would come loose during filter bypass.My followup question would be ... how likely are these two bits to make it through a bypass valve opening?
We seem to focus on oil changes on the new cars, but another aspect is the filter change.
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Yeah, I'm in the same boat, I want that large particulate out of the sump in the event that there's a filter bypass event, I don't want it re-introduced to the oil in circulation. I've seen enough visible break-in metal in oil filters to conclude that this is a reasonable practice.I normally agree with him. Wear is going to gradually drop over time. The oil and filter can handle levels of break-in wear. I'm not sure it's necessary to change it out as much as he suggests. I usually do first drain around 1-3k miles. I'll do a subsequent change 3-5k later. If the filter is doing it's job and the oil is doing its job keeping things in suspension, I'm not sure it's necessary to do 4-5 changes in firs 10k miles. Seems excessive and not necessary.
I want that large particulate out of the sump in the event that there's a filter bypass event
With manufacturing so good today, even at peak break-in wear metals are never at alarming levels in many engine brands.
Maybe some, but most engines today don't show crazy high break-in metals. Some of the older GM V8s did years back but most I see today are never at crazy high levels.Massive engine recalls seem pretty common these days. What was the root cause of bearing failure for Toyota Tundra engines? I thought it was very large particulate rather than a regular wear metals.
That's a good number and kind of what I do.I usually do it @1k, then 5k and let it roll after.
But what shows up in a UOA are not the damaging particles, for the most part no one knows if there are huge pieces in circulation. Either they see the metals in solution (or very tiny particles) in a spectrographic analysis or they see what’s trapped in the filter media. What’s in between is not measured nor even tested.That's kind of where I'm at. A UOA on a new car, to prove an early change is a good idea, may be too narrow of a look. Sometimes we have huge pieces to get out of there.
But what shows up in a UOA are not the damaging particles
What’s in between is not measured nor even tested.
That is true and could be a valid reason to change initial fill. But after that first 1k mile change or so, doing multiple changes up to 10k is kind of ridiculous to me. But I understand why someone may want to do that.But what shows up in a UOA are not the damaging particles, for the most part no one knows if there are huge pieces in circulation. Either they see the metals in solution (or very tiny particles) in a spectrographic analysis or they see what’s trapped in the filter media. What’s in between is not measured nor even tested.
We get so many people post in here about UOA that show moderately elevated levels, and then proclaim that it’s “good they got all that metal out of there”.
Much less than that, more like 1-3 microns. User edhackett has a couple of good posts on that, you can search for them. He discusses how it is actually the aerodynamic diameter and what that means as it is related to the density of the particles. Here is one of his several posts:I still agree. That was my point a UOA being too narrow of a view. It's missing everything bigger than what ... 10µm? I could measure the stuff in my filter with a ruler.
ICP(Inductively Coupled Plasma) spectrometry is designed to measure elements in solution, not particles in suspension. Droplets larger than about 4.5 microns destabilize the plasma. The proper operation of the instrument depends on the spray chamber removing "particles" larger than the 4.5-5 micron target range. The finer the droplets the nebulizer produces and the higher the efficiency of the spray chamber system at removing the larger droplets, the...I asked Dave @High Performance Lubricants what is the largest particle their ICP can detect, he said it's about 20 microns.
My opinion is your 342,500 miles are pretty realistically hard to argue with.and, since it is your car and your money, you are free to do that. On my Jetta, I have done 5,000 oil changes from the beginning. The first two changes included the oil filter and filter change every other time since then. I am only at 342,500 miles with no engine problems, so the jury is still out. My other cars get the same treatment but no other car has gotten remotely near that kind of total mileage.
BTW, I have been told multiple times on here that my 5k miles oil changes are a waste of money.
Except for the fact that he likely could have gotten there just the same with 10k intervalsMy opinion is your 342,500 miles are pretty realistically hard to argue with.
Except for the FACT that the particular engine my car has is notorious for eating the valve cam. Why is my valve cam still healthy? I will stick with doing it all wrong.Except for the fact that he likely could have gotten there just the same with 10k intervals