Question about sludge formation and Group III base

[06VtecV6]

Well, allow me to put something called a perspective in a short but sweet package. When I was using PP, I valued protection and with M1, it's all about letting her rip to peak torque @ 5k and leaving others in your rear view mirror. Btw, I am going to the track next weekend for the first time and will be back with some slips to back up my oil choice. I mean if she's gonna rip, might as well give that a shot along the way. Plus it just makes things much nice and neat to explain when you tell people you obsess about lubrication.

 

[Lonnie]

And remember, Mobil 1 is just an average engine oil, nothing remarkable except for the price. It will do a good job but there is nothing special about it or it's performance. If you want the product use it and live happily ever after. If you are price conscious, there are other choices that will give at least equal performance for a smaller price. It's a good oil , that's for sure, but nothing better than that.

 

[Mokanic]

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Well, allow me to put something called a perspective in a short but sweet package. When I was using PP, I valued protection and with M1, it's all about letting her rip to peak torque @ 5k and leaving others in your rear view mirror. Btw, I am going to the track next weekend for the first time and will be back with some slips to back up my oil choice. I mean if she's gonna rip, might as well give that a shot along the way. Plus it just makes things much nice and neat to explain when you tell people you obsess about lubrication.

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Uhhh, okay.

 

[Jaybird]

Two less-than-learned comedians in one thread!
Talk about value!

 

[JAG]

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And remember, Mobil 1 is just an average engine oil, nothing remarkable except for the price. It will do a good job but there is nothing special about it or it's performance.

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You should have said "I am not aware of anything special about any of the Mobil 1 oils." Then we see that you just don't know any better. You said your opinion like it's a fact.

 

[mikeg5]

i would have to agree with mokanic. anyone running a normal car or truck at 5k miles or less oci's any conventional oil would do great..

 

[ericthepig]

Lonnie,

You state that M1 is an "average engine oil". Then what do you consider a "remarkable" engine oil?

 

[Lonnie]

Jag, at my job we evaluated Mobil 1 oil over a lot of cars and miles. There was nothing special about it. We only used it in warranty intervals which may be how it is most often used. At those intervals with 5w-20 we replaced it with Motorcraft 5w-20, with at least equal performance over a year, again doing warranty intervals. It is only a fact in my realm of experience but we did a lot of lab work and spend a year at it, about two years ago. This was initiated by a price increase at the wholesale level that we did not want to pay if there was no additional value to be received. Mobil 1 may be better in your exerience by I did not have access to any other data. I am not an idiot as you suggest and I'm not an expert either. I expressed an opinion based on work that I do. I think that conventional oils are closing the gap at warranty intervals in normal conditions and in those so called normal conditions have hit parity. And Mobil 1 is a good oil, but nothing special for the price.

ericthepig, what do I consider a "remarkable" engine oil, I don't know what remarkable means when applied to an engine oil. For the price I would say in the right application that RLI, Amsoil and Red Line are very good oils for the price. There are others, products like Motorcraft that do not look special on paper but as a package perform well and for a lot less money.

 

[bruce381]

""I think that conventional oils are closing the gap at warranty intervals in normal conditions and in those so called normal conditions have hit parity.""

I agree 100%

""And Mobil 1 is a good oil, but nothing special for the price""

I agree 100%

bruce

 

[mikeg5]

get em lonnie!! jag, you can keep your m1... my truck runs smoother without it and i ran it for over 40k miles and not impressed at all with all the clankity clank noises.. put durablend in and its gone and so is m1

 

[JAG]

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Jag, at my job we evaluated Mobil 1 oil over a lot of cars and miles. There was nothing special about it. We only used it in warranty intervals which may be how it is most often used. At those intervals with 5w-20 we replaced it with Motorcraft 5w-20, with at least equal performance over a year, again doing warranty intervals.

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Two things:
1. That's just Mobil 1 5W-20. Your initial comment applied to "Mobil 1" which implies the entire lineup, which is very diverse.
2. When what is asked of a conventional oil is NOT too much, as is often the case when warranty requirements are followed, using an oil that can last longer is not going to do much or any good. To expect otherwise is folly.

Your work experience of evaluating oils is indeed interesting and worth telling. Forming conclusions that are not supported by those experiences is the problem.

 

[JAG]

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get em lonnie!! jag, you can keep your m1... my truck runs smoother without it and i ran it for over 40k miles and not impressed at all with all the clankity clank noises.. put durablend in and its gone and so is m1

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This is not about me keeping Mobil 1. It's about truthful evaluation of oils. I understand why you don't like to hear clanking sounds and are glad another oil got rid of them. You used one oil in the Mobil 1 lineup out of many in a particular engine. It maybe was not the best match. There is no doubt though that the clankety Mobil 1 oil you used would last longer than the quiet Durablend you are now using. If you change the Durablend before it's shot, that fact is irrelevent though.

 

[JAG]

Sorry one more post to Lonnie, just so I am more clear. Based on numerous used oil analysis, OEM approvals, and Product Data Sheets, I too do not think there is anything significantly better about Mobil 1 5W-20's performance vs other leading OTC 5W-20 synthetic oils. Me putting in "think" is an important point, showing that it is my opinion, not fact.

 

[Lonnie]

And Mobil 1 said to change their M1 products in 5w-20 and 5w30 that we tested at the warranty intervals. They said specifically that they can not support intervals longer than the factory intervals. Also M1 showed valve train wear that we did not experience with MC. This kind of wear was confirmed in a conversation with Terry Dyson. We did some tear downs on several vehicles out of the fleet that were involved in accidents and confirmed beyond expected wear on M1 cars as compared with those using Motorcraft or Pennzoil. Our sample size was small but consistant, 3 M1 cars 5 MC/Pennzoil cars. The wear was not enough to required attention in the 80 to 100k miles that cars are usually run but plainly enough to measure. Mobil 1 is as good as any API cert oil, and that makes it a good oil. But worth the extra money, in my experience, no. If you want to pay a little extra to get better protection there are better choices.

 

[ericthepig]

Lonnie,

I was asking about "remarkable" because you said there was "nothing remarkable" about M1 - thus I asked your thoughts on a "remarkable" oil.

You mentioned RLI, Amsoil and Redline. You mentioned using these oils in the "right application" which a warranty interval probably doesn't qualify (nor would it qualify for M1). Your conclusion that dinos are just as good as synthetics in non-severe service, warranty OCIs is spot on in my opinion. Everybodies different on BITOG, but it's very unlikely I would pay a premium for synthetic oil and then dump it in 5k miles. But where I take motor oils, the grp II dinos can't be trusted to go. Thus my use of Amsoil and M1 product lines since 1994.

MikeG, my van has seen M1 (reg. lines) 10w30, 0w30, and EP 5w30 for almost 80k. The sound the engines makes is one the Japanese strive for in their tea rooms.

 

[ericthepig]

Lonnie, you said "this kind of wear was confirmed in a conv. with Terry Dyson." Did Dyson confirm it in your own used oil analysis, or did he make a general statement about M1 causing this type of wear?

 

[ericthepig]

Lonnie, also, what type of metal comprises the valve trains in those engines?

I'm not questioning your findings. It sounds like you all had real and measurable results. But if an M1 product line is causing premature wear of certain engine parts, then that should be born out in countless used oil analysis on BITOG (which I enjoy going back and perusing in my spare time). Plus, I'm not a die hard M1 fan as it may sound. If my 10-12k UOA (several months from now) comes back with jacked up wear readings, then I myself will be looking elsewhere for a good lubricant.

 

[glenncof]

I find the "Mobil 1 0W40 European Formula" to be remarkable, ~$6/qt at WM. But it may be the ONLY one unique in Mobil 1 line up. I can't justify the price due to my OCI.

This stuff meets more tough European spec's than anything else I find except Valvoline SynPower 5W40; ACEA A3,B3,B4 , Porsche, MB 229.3/.5, BMW LL-0?, VW/Audi 502 and 503.01 (only a few oils in US can do this one).

If I had a newer machine that spec'd this stuff I would use it (or the SynPower) at half the 15K OCI typical spec even at that price.

 

[Lonnie]

Valve train wear was observed wear on parts. A used oil analysis can be part of trend analysis but it takes an expert to zone in on infrequent or individual lab results. Terry said he confirmed it in his experience. We are talking wear, not failure. We are talking patterns, not the earth falling.

A remarkable oil is one that does it's job and can be bought at a good price. A friend just got 48 bottles of Chevron Delo 400 15w40 for fifty cents a quart. The manager of the store said the new imporved Delo was out and he was told to get rid of it. He has a remarkable oil. Really, being able to pick just enough oil for the job and finding that oil in my mind constitutes the best oil.

 

[MolaKule]

With today's dispersant chemistry, I would not concern myself with sludge for any type of oil used under sensical oil change intervals or intervals dictated by analysis.