The future of Group III base oils

Pennzoil motor oil
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outrun

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As oil specifications become more demanding is it reasonable to think that Group III stands to become the dominant base oil even for conventional (in nominee) oils.

In other words we have had a raging debate on Group III vs IV and V from a nomenclature standpoint. Will we have a situation in the future when most conventional oils are Group III based ... and oddly enough our Synthetic will also be Group III. Already with oils such as Pennzoil 'yellow bottle' and HDEOs such as Mobil Delvac 1300, and Rotella T we have sizeable blended Grp III components. One tech paper I just read predicts Grp III to be a major HDEO player due to its refinement removal level of aromatic rings.

I presume synthetics in Europe will continue to be different due to there base oil definitions ... and grueling VW, MB, Peugeot etc specs.
 
Flying cars are the future. No oil will be needed. j/k

Its possible that as the EPA dictates that oil makers neuter their oil by lowering "evil" catalytic converter killing anti wear additives that the oil itself will have to be better to keep the engines from kabooming on us.
 
Originally Posted By: outrun
Already with oils such as Pennzoil 'yellow bottle' and HDEOs such as Mobil Delvac 1300, and Rotella T we have sizeable blended Grp III components.


What makes you think any of these oils have Group III in the base oil mix?
 
Johnny confirmed that Pennzoil conventional was either Grp II+, or Grp II+ and some Grp III based on where it was manufactured.
 
Originally Posted By: Gunatics_Adler
Flying cars are the future. No oil will be needed. j/k

Its possible that as the EPA dictates that oil makers neuter their oil by lowering "evil" catalytic converter killing anti wear additives that the oil itself will have to be better to keep the engines from kabooming on us.


Oh no... According to the Government, Electric cars are our future...
smirk2.gif


The crazy thing is that lowering these "Evil" additives to prevent catalytic converter failure is just stupid. It allows the engine to wear faster leading to oil consumption which then accelerates Catalytic Converter wear & failure. If they would just leave the additives alone and allow it to protect the heck out of the engine the cars wouldn't wear as quickly and wouldn't wear the converters.

But then again no one would be buying new vehicles and so that's not good for the economy or the Tax Mans pocket.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: Gunatics_Adler
Flying cars are the future. No oil will be needed. j/k

Its possible that as the EPA dictates that oil makers neuter their oil by lowering "evil" catalytic converter killing anti wear additives that the oil itself will have to be better to keep the engines from kabooming on us.


Oh no... According to the Government, Electric cars are our future...
smirk2.gif


The crazy thing is that lowering these "Evil" additives to prevent catalytic converter failure is just stupid. It allows the engine to wear faster leading to oil consumption which then accelerates Catalytic Converter wear & failure. If they would just leave the additives alone and allow it to protect the heck out of the engine the cars wouldn't wear as quickly and wouldn't wear the converters.

But then again no one would be buying new vehicles and so that's not good for the economy or the Tax Mans pocket.
wink.gif




Exactly why I decided to move away from "API" oil.
 
I have a hard time believing my engine wont last 200-300k miles on PP or castrol edge type oil.

We have a courier at work she has 479,000 miles on her 2003/2004 hyundai elantra.

NO engine work so far. She was telling me she has only done regular maintenance and some suspension parts.

and her car gets started about 40x a day.


in the end the best solution would be to find some additives that would replace the ones they want lowered and still work well.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: elwaylite
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: Gunatics_Adler
Flying cars are the future. No oil will be needed. j/k

Its possible that as the EPA dictates that oil makers neuter their oil by lowering "evil" catalytic converter killing anti wear additives that the oil itself will have to be better to keep the engines from kabooming on us.


Oh no... According to the Government, Electric cars are our future...
smirk2.gif


The crazy thing is that lowering these "Evil" additives to prevent catalytic converter failure is just stupid. It allows the engine to wear faster leading to oil consumption which then accelerates Catalytic Converter wear & failure. If they would just leave the additives alone and allow it to protect the heck out of the engine the cars wouldn't wear as quickly and wouldn't wear the converters.

But then again no one would be buying new vehicles and so that's not good for the economy or the Tax Mans pocket.
wink.gif




Exactly why I decided to move away from "API" oil.


And, exactly why I trust companies who don't go out looking for certifications that don't guarantee quality. That said, I have never heard about a catalytic converter failing in any one of my friend's cars using Amsoil.
 
Originally Posted By: pcfxer
That said, I have never heard about a catalytic converter failing in any one of my friend's cars using Amsoil.


Well, your friends probably won't fail a CAT regardless of what oil they use.
 
Originally Posted By: Rand
I have a hard time believing my engine wont last 200-300k miles on PP or castrol edge type oil.

We have a courier at work she has 479,000 miles on her 2003/2004 hyundai elantra.

NO engine work so far. She was telling me she has only done regular maintenance and some suspension parts.

and her car gets started about 40x a day.


in the end the best solution would be to find some additives that would replace the ones they want lowered and still work well.


Try Motor Silk?
 
Hi,
I believe that semi-synthetic lubricants will achieve a greater share of the lubricant marketplace in years to come

The big "players" EoM, Shell, Chevron, Castrol and Euros like Motul etc have been heading down this path for some several years

Many Grp3 based lubricants have significant Manufacturer Approvals and Blenders using Grp4 and Grp5 add ins are making extremely good products at realistic prices

It is well known that the performance of some of these products not only rival but perhaps even exceed that of their "full synthetic" rivals. Many are LL lubricants
 
Last edited:
Tisk-Tisk,

I thought you had enough board experience to independently verify me. I am not sure if that response is a front on credibility.

Delvac 1300 (Some Group III, % by volume proprietary, Product Data Sheet notes contains severly hydroprocessed base stock, Mobil Define severly hydroprocessed by another product sheet)

Pennzoil conventional (Dan's cc'd email messages from the Chief Shell lubricant chemist)

Castrol GTX (via Frank)


Shell Rotella T 10W30 (via Terry Dyson)

Why such skepticsm and denial over the use of Group III sold as conventional. That consumer advantage should make you happy not raise doubt. After how many years of the NAD argument now consider this turn of events.
 
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