Why the move to Group III?

[Mystic]

In a couple of posts here there is information that apparently both Pennzoil and Exxon-Mobil are going from PAO in their synthetic motor oils to Group III. In fact, there is apparently information to the effect that even Amsoil might be using Group III in some of its motor oils.

My question is why are the companies doing this? Is PAO becoming too expensive? Have people discovered some kind of a problem with PAOs in motor oil use? Will the price of these motor oils go down with Group III being used rather then more expensive PAO base?

I have been using conventional motor oil throughout most of the year and synthetic motor oil (Mobil 1) in the wintertime becaue of the wintertime cold. But if the pour point of Mobil 1 is adversely affected by the move to Group III I see no reason whatsoever to continue to use expensive Mobil 1 oil in the wintertime. I might instead use conventional Pennzoil motor oil in the wintertime since it apparently has a pretty good cold temperature pour point.

Which conventional motor oils do have a good cold temperature pour point? And if Pennzoil Platinum, Mobil 1, and even perhaps some Amsoil motor oils now are Group III base perhaps it is time to look at other synthetic oils that are also Group III and may be less expensive and just as high quality as the synthetic oils that are becoming Group III.

 

[Mystic]

One more point. Perhaps for wintertime use it is time to look at motor oils that are conventional but are designed especially to flow well in very cold temperatures. Is that Quaker State oil designed for winter use still available?

 

[ccs v2.0]

Call me cra$$, but that'$ an ea$y an$wer.

 

[buster]

M1 used to distinguish itself by being the only true synthetic PAO oil on the market (retail). Now it's composed of Group III with PAO/Esters. The primary reason for this would be cost.

According to many, Group III's are as good as most PAO's other than extreme cold temp. performance. It's the total product that counts. As I've stated many times, Shell uses Group III for F1 and it's Ferrari's. Obviously the additive package is just as important if not more so.

What bothers me most about the M1 change isn't the base oil change, but the price. XOM continues to bring in record profits and seems to be cutting the consumer no break what so ever. The market will take care of this and hopefully people will start using other brands.

 

[tripleM]

the defections have started...

seriously, if I can get Pennzoil Platinum or Quaker State Torque Power for
btw, Redline is next on the test rigg i would think...

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Supertech syn? Seriously good value. Pennzoil Platinum at recent incentive prices..again a good/great deal(and appropriately priced)
Silver bottle marketing @ 6+bucks a quart? I'll never pay full price for it.
Watching this unfold is going to be entertaining.

 

[tripleM]

Quote:

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What bothers me most about the M1 change isn't the base oil change, but the price. XOM continues to bring in record profits and seems to be cutting the consumer no break what so ever. The market will take care of this and hopefully people will start using other brands.

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I couldn't agree with you more!

 

[Mystic]

Is the Wal-Mart SuperTech a true PAO synthetic? Are there any motor oils available at a decent price that are still PAO? Maybe QS?

 

[Drew99GT]

I've got REM "End of the World" going through my head.

 

[Mystic]

One more thought. Does the move to Proup III by some companies with their 'synthetic' oils make the blends a better buy. Is a blend that contains 10% PAO now worth a look?

 

[Drew99GT]

Durablend seems to be a stellar oil, but if you look at Valvoline's MSDSs, it almost looks like it and Maxlife use more group I in the 5ws since the PAO can compensate for that, where as All Climate in 5ws is all group II.

This is why I buy soley on price. I could give a rats behind what an oil is comprised of as long as it meets current API standards and doesn't cost more than a buck a quart.

 

[tripleM]

I guess I am stating the obvious but it depends on if you believe the blended mini PAOs are > GrpIII Synth. Performance is still the deciding factor I would assume for most ppl. Only when price performance ratio is close would there be greater defection.

What PAO blends were you thinking of?

 

[Pablo]

Let's nip the Amsoil rumors in the bud. I'm OK with Tom NJ running the tests, though.

 

[Drew99GT]

I think Mystic was referring to the XL line of oils.

 

[GeorgeCLS]

ExxonMobil has NOT chnaged to Group III in any of its synthetic products. Period.........
George Morrison, STLE CLS

 

[mcrn]

I think this makes walmarts supertech look like a great value as a stated on the mobil post and as bryan stated here. I am pretty sure I read that it is a group III. I'm sure its add pack is weak but im sure its ok for 3 to 5K OCI.

 

[Mystic]

And what about high temperature performance? Some vehicles (like the Corvette) use Mobil 1 to meet GM high temperature requirements. Does a Group III still meet these requirements?

If someobdy wants to use a 'true' 'synthetic' oil maybe Redline is the answer?

 

[buster]

George, aren't you the same guy that said Mobil 5000 contained no Na? George, Mobil 1 does contain Group III my friend. Read the latest MSDS! It is now a Group III based oil confirmed by G.C. testing.

 

[Drew99GT]

If Clean 5000 truely is group III like was speculated here, not to mention the guy who worked for Mobil and flat out said it is, then I'd feel majorily ripped off buying Mobil 1 for 7 bucks a pop! Marketing is a strong force!

 

[beanoil]

Quote:

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Call me cra$$, but that'$ an ea$y an$wer.

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Mobil profits soar Texaco profits soar
Shell profits soar
Are you getting the picture? Business ethics is the newest oxymoron.