I think we need to be fair to the Group IIIs.

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Mar 5, 2003
I have seen a lot of people hear ridicule the Group III motor oils but I have not seen very many UOAs to justify all of this. How do the Group III motor oils compare? I would assume that motor oils like Chevron Synthetic, Pennzoil Synthetic, Quaker State Synthetic, Castrol Syntec (American), Valvoline SynPower, and others like these are Group III, although some of these may have some PAO or ester. Are any of them good motor oils that can compete with oils like Mobil 1?
I would not be too sure about the American Syntec being GIII anymore. (wishfull thinking) If pour point is important, PAOs and esters do perform better. If less VII is important (in extended drains it is) than Gruppe IV & V oils will require less of them. I does in part come down to additive packeges in GIII oils, if they can make a GII or GII+ oil perform well, surely a GIII with robust additives can work too. Don't forget the "other" GIII oil that is not hydrocracked and an equal to PAO, Shell's own wax isomerate. I am kind of going over old ground at this point, it seems like most oils will work well within a correct application, question is: for how long?
I think the general concensus is they cost too much for what they deliver. Group III oils cost $4.00 or more per quart. I can buy M1 at Costco for less than that and all evidence points to M1 being the better product. I have been tempted to run an interval of Chevron's Sythetic Group III and get an UOA to publish just for kicks. We could see how it does in my KA24DE oil smasher. There are a few UOAs of Cheveron Supreme dino in identical engines that can be used as a comparison. If Group IIIs averaged $2.50 - $3/ qt. they would be a better deal. [Cheers!] [Patriot]
I was tempted to try the Chevron Synthetic (which I assume is a Group III) because Chevron conventional really worked good in my previous car. I figured the Chevron Supreme Synthetic just had to be even better, and at $3.00 a quart. But I could not find the 5W-30 Chevron Supreme Synthetic, only the 10W-30. I wanted to try the 5W-30 in the wintertime. Another thing that has upset me recently about Chevron Supreme is somebody did a freezer test and the Chevron did not flow well in the cold, at least in that test.
Quaker State MSDS for full synth is PAO. http://www.pzlqs.com/MSDS/014/014953.pdf I too agree that the groupIII's are overpriced when compared to Mobil1. But, the store/noname brands usually aren't. Wallyworld/Autozone/Pepboys/?......sell their own synths that are priced well and most likely groupIII.
If I were to run extended drains (say anything over 7500 miles) I would definitely use a group IV over a III. But in my situation, I run 5000 drains because my car is still relatively new and I care about my warranty. In 5k drains, I haven't seen much evidence that group III's are inferior to Mobil, at least not in the VW engines.
There's an underlying presumption in this thread that (presumably) because ChevronTexaco's a major player in producing Group III base stocks at their Richmond, CA facility, it follows that their synthetics use Group III base stocks. But, the wording on the company's MSDSs, both for "Chevron Supreme" and "Havoline" synthetic products, does not bear this presumption out. In the "components" section, ChevronTexaco lists PAOs (Group IVs) first, OR (NOT "and") severely hydro-processed isomerates (Group IIIs). What I'd like to know is whether ChevronTexaco is vertically integrated to produce PAOs, or does the company procure from [an]other source(s)? And, if the latter, which company(ies)? [ October 14, 2003, 12:41 PM: Message edited by: Ray H ]
Interesting info on the quaker state synthetic oil. Not only does it list a PAO cas #, it also meets an old ACEA A3-98 spec and is apparently availabile in a 5w20 weight.
Originally posted by GSV: I think the general concensus is they cost too much for what they deliver. If Group IIIs averaged $2.50 - $3/ qt. they would be a better deal.
Me too. [Cheers!]
Exactly, and at $6.00 or more a quart, any engine oil is likely a rip-off whether PAO, Ester, or group III when you can get an API SL GF-3 5W30 on sale for 69 cents. But for the Canuck winter, I'll take my 0W30 or 5W40 group IIIs, at what works out to around $2.50 to $3.00 US a quart at the bulk outlets. The point is, and you can argue this until the cows come, for example, Chevron's Delo 400 5W40 for one, is certified to meet and exceed numerous manufacturers warranty requirements. Should I pay twice that for Mobil's Delvac 5W40 just because its a PAO???
Originally posted by userfriendly: When you can get an API SL GF-3 5W30 on sale for 69 cents...
Or when you can get Pennzoil Long-Life for $1.50/quart...not on sale [Big Grin]
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