I think you'll have a good idea before a year is up. Your objectives seem very reasonable. I remain agnostic on the subject of A-RX in any given car. I know it can help in meaningful ways but I also know it does not always make that sort of difference.
Quantifying Auto Rx
- Thread starter Spitty
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Glenn, that's about the way I feel. ARx gets a lot of good press here, from people I consider credible. this has swayed me to at least TRY it. Prior to that, I was a little put-off by ludicrous statements on the ARx site, like;
"Did you know that 95% of vehicle problems are caused by the build up of such contaminants as carbon, sludge, dirt and third-party abrasives in your engine?"
"Did you know that 95% of vehicle problems are caused by the build up of such contaminants as carbon, sludge, dirt and third-party abrasives in your engine?"
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Originally Posted By: Spitty
Glenn, that's about the way I feel. ARx gets a lot of good press here, from people I consider credible. this has swayed me to at least TRY it. Prior to that, I was a little put-off by ludicrous statements on the ARx site, like;
"Did you know that 95% of vehicle problems are caused by the build up of such contaminants as carbon, sludge, dirt and third-party abrasives in your engine?"
Well, as promotional statements go, it's not all that bad. I would probably have worded it that 95% (or have used "most") performance degradation can be caused by .....blablabla. I'd say that we've found that most consumption isn't due to true "wear". It's either due to design (low tension rings or a faulty PCV system - funny that they can't get that right after 30+ years of development) or stuff that Auto-Rx can remedy. It's the same with noisy lifters ...etc..etc. Stuff that typically tips the scale on looking for another car. Stuff that prematurely ages an engine.
I kinda look at it this way. Sure you can get 200k-250k out of many of today's engines. Many do. ..but I think it's like the human lifespan. Your genetics will mostly determine your life span or rather expectancy, but your health when you expire can surely vary. So, "engine life" will probably not be altered. Being worth driving until the point of expiration??
Glenn, that's about the way I feel. ARx gets a lot of good press here, from people I consider credible. this has swayed me to at least TRY it. Prior to that, I was a little put-off by ludicrous statements on the ARx site, like;
"Did you know that 95% of vehicle problems are caused by the build up of such contaminants as carbon, sludge, dirt and third-party abrasives in your engine?"
Well, as promotional statements go, it's not all that bad. I would probably have worded it that 95% (or have used "most") performance degradation can be caused by .....blablabla. I'd say that we've found that most consumption isn't due to true "wear". It's either due to design (low tension rings or a faulty PCV system - funny that they can't get that right after 30+ years of development) or stuff that Auto-Rx can remedy. It's the same with noisy lifters ...etc..etc. Stuff that typically tips the scale on looking for another car. Stuff that prematurely ages an engine.
I kinda look at it this way. Sure you can get 200k-250k out of many of today's engines. Many do. ..but I think it's like the human lifespan. Your genetics will mostly determine your life span or rather expectancy, but your health when you expire can surely vary. So, "engine life" will probably not be altered. Being worth driving until the point of expiration??
I am sorry you were put off by actual fact (getting a patent in the USA for specific applications needs third party collaboration) Spitty you never spent a dime with Auto-Rx so where and how you got product i don,t know what i do know is your hypotheticals are misrepresentation when you start posting your "quantifying" tests about a product not bought from the manufacture.
We just got our first order from the US Federal Goverment, do you know of any other metal cleaner product on this board that can make this statement?
When Auto-Rx pays for testing we have to furnish product, the lab does not borrow it or buy it from somebody else.
We just got our first order from the US Federal Goverment, do you know of any other metal cleaner product on this board that can make this statement?
When Auto-Rx pays for testing we have to furnish product, the lab does not borrow it or buy it from somebody else.
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Spitty, I have a SAAB 9-5 that had a history of deposit buildup when I bought it at 59k miles. I immediately purchased Auto-RX after seeing all the good comments on here.
I have to admit I was not completely impressed after two clean/rinse treatments but I did photograph everything. I can attest to the fact that visible results are going to be based on how oil is distributed in the engine. I took pictures at various angles under the valve cover. The area of the valve train that I saw the most cleaning take place in was around the timing chain area. I also cut open all my filters. The first clean didn't show much at all but the rinse did show a lot of fine carbon deposits lining the base of each pleat.
Still, I was expected miracle results. I was sure something out there could give them to me. Well, after thinking I had become an instant BITOG expert on arx's chemistry I purchased some Redline. I thought this uber ester oil would be bound to clean better. It didn't. Then I got on the "high detergent/dispersant" HDEO kick. I ran a couple changes of Castrol Tection Extra. No luck. Berryman Chemtool flush. Nope. Then I went back to Auto-RX and began a maintenance dose program. SUrprisingly, once again I saw the deposits slowly coming off around the timing chain. And once again I got cruddy filters.
It's been a slow process, I admit. But an engine doesn't get screwed up over night so I guess we all shouldn't be expecting over night results. My car is also known to be a sludger b/c of an inadequate PCV system. So I'm fighting chemistry! What I do know is that in a car where there is a decently abnormal rate of failed engines prior to 100k miles, mine is now at 131k miles and running like a clock. It's cleaner than it was at 59k, that's for sure.
What I would recommend if you want to keep a good account of what's going on is to take as many pictures of the engine internals before, during, and after the treatments. If I had taken soley overhead shots of my valve train I may have missed significant deposit removal in certain areas of my engine.
Also, crack open every filter. Often on here we get people taking pics of freshly-opened filters. These don't represent a true picture of the amount of deposits collected. What I've always done is to cut open the filters then get the end caps off the filters and then cut the media at some point. Then hang up the filter somewhere it won't be disturbed and let the oil drip off for maybe a week at most. At that point, any hard, fine deposits will be clearly visible in the media. Now, my car is a turbo so that's a different engine environment and you might not have the same types of deposits in your filter. But if you do, this will be the easiest way to show it.
I've done nothing to track MPG, compression, or any other parameter. I've done combustion chamber cleanings and fuel treatments so I don't think it would be a fair test of arx alone.
You can see some of my results over on the ARX main page. Scroll down on the left and look for "The Auto-Rx Maintenance Program in a SAAB 9-5 with photos."
I have to admit I was not completely impressed after two clean/rinse treatments but I did photograph everything. I can attest to the fact that visible results are going to be based on how oil is distributed in the engine. I took pictures at various angles under the valve cover. The area of the valve train that I saw the most cleaning take place in was around the timing chain area. I also cut open all my filters. The first clean didn't show much at all but the rinse did show a lot of fine carbon deposits lining the base of each pleat.
Still, I was expected miracle results. I was sure something out there could give them to me. Well, after thinking I had become an instant BITOG expert on arx's chemistry I purchased some Redline. I thought this uber ester oil would be bound to clean better. It didn't. Then I got on the "high detergent/dispersant" HDEO kick. I ran a couple changes of Castrol Tection Extra. No luck. Berryman Chemtool flush. Nope. Then I went back to Auto-RX and began a maintenance dose program. SUrprisingly, once again I saw the deposits slowly coming off around the timing chain. And once again I got cruddy filters.
It's been a slow process, I admit. But an engine doesn't get screwed up over night so I guess we all shouldn't be expecting over night results. My car is also known to be a sludger b/c of an inadequate PCV system. So I'm fighting chemistry! What I do know is that in a car where there is a decently abnormal rate of failed engines prior to 100k miles, mine is now at 131k miles and running like a clock. It's cleaner than it was at 59k, that's for sure.
What I would recommend if you want to keep a good account of what's going on is to take as many pictures of the engine internals before, during, and after the treatments. If I had taken soley overhead shots of my valve train I may have missed significant deposit removal in certain areas of my engine.
Also, crack open every filter. Often on here we get people taking pics of freshly-opened filters. These don't represent a true picture of the amount of deposits collected. What I've always done is to cut open the filters then get the end caps off the filters and then cut the media at some point. Then hang up the filter somewhere it won't be disturbed and let the oil drip off for maybe a week at most. At that point, any hard, fine deposits will be clearly visible in the media. Now, my car is a turbo so that's a different engine environment and you might not have the same types of deposits in your filter. But if you do, this will be the easiest way to show it.
I've done nothing to track MPG, compression, or any other parameter. I've done combustion chamber cleanings and fuel treatments so I don't think it would be a fair test of arx alone.
You can see some of my results over on the ARX main page. Scroll down on the left and look for "The Auto-Rx Maintenance Program in a SAAB 9-5 with photos."
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I guess that I haven't "quantified" anything, but my fuel economy increased 1.5 ~ 2 mpg on average, my engine is quieter, and my timing chain rattle is greatly reduced.
Crashbox
$100 Site Donor 2026
FOR THE RECORD: I AM THE GUILTY ONE WHO SENT SPITTY THE TWO BOTTLES OF AUTO-RX.
I SENT THEM TO HIM ***FREE OF CHARGE*** (THOUGH HE DID REIMBURSE ME) WITH THE THOUGHT THAT PERHAPS I COULD ACT AS A "BRIDGE", SEEING THAT HE WAS PUT OFF BY THE SHEER ARROGANCE OF SOME PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD AND I COULD MAYBE DO MY PART TO TRY TO MEND THINGS SINCE I BELIEVED IN THE PRODUCT.
VANITY. SHEER VANITY.
I VIEW SPITTY'S ATTEMPT TO EVALUATE THE PRODUCT IN QUESTION AS NO DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHER PERSON, EXCEPT HE SPELLED OUT HIS METHODOLOGY AT THE START.
I HAVE SEEN TOO MANY PEOPLE HERE ON THIS BOARD KICKED IN THE GROIN WITH STEEL-TOED BOOTS WITHOUT CAUSE. I'M OUTTA HERE.
ADIOS.
I SENT THEM TO HIM ***FREE OF CHARGE*** (THOUGH HE DID REIMBURSE ME) WITH THE THOUGHT THAT PERHAPS I COULD ACT AS A "BRIDGE", SEEING THAT HE WAS PUT OFF BY THE SHEER ARROGANCE OF SOME PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD AND I COULD MAYBE DO MY PART TO TRY TO MEND THINGS SINCE I BELIEVED IN THE PRODUCT.
VANITY. SHEER VANITY.
I VIEW SPITTY'S ATTEMPT TO EVALUATE THE PRODUCT IN QUESTION AS NO DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHER PERSON, EXCEPT HE SPELLED OUT HIS METHODOLOGY AT THE START.
I HAVE SEEN TOO MANY PEOPLE HERE ON THIS BOARD KICKED IN THE GROIN WITH STEEL-TOED BOOTS WITHOUT CAUSE. I'M OUTTA HERE.
ADIOS.
First Oilgal craters, now Crashbox appears to be leaving the forum. What's going on around here lately?
Originally Posted By: Frank
We just got our first order from the US Federal Goverment, do you know of any other metal cleaner product on this board that can make this statement?
And we all know that if the federal government bought something, it has to be good.
Frank, I'm a marginal supporter of your product because it helped on 1 out of 3 of my vehicles, but your that statement was meaningless.
We just got our first order from the US Federal Goverment, do you know of any other metal cleaner product on this board that can make this statement?
And we all know that if the federal government bought something, it has to be good.
Frank, I'm a marginal supporter of your product because it helped on 1 out of 3 of my vehicles, but your that statement was meaningless.
I agree, I may not be in the possession of the 'real' Auto Rx, I received it as Two bottles sealed together in a clear plastic bag, the bottles are black plastic and appear the same as those advertised on the ARx website. The bottles are sealed with a foil seal, BUT I admit they may not contain Auto Rx I apologize, I MAY have been duped or misled. However I will continue this substance, but I will now refer to it as 'Additive X' or Ax I will (and have not) made ANY claims on Auto Rx, (the product).
If you still feel the product I have is bogus, I will be pleased to send you the bottle, including a few dregs of product. I'm sure it will be of interest to you.
No other metal cleaner I've seen on this site claims to have been purchased by the U.S. Federal Government, But many advertised Oil Treatments (including Slick 50) have been, so I'm not sure what that proves!
I have NEVER said ANYTHING disparaging about the ARX product! in fact I have said several times that I have been impressed by the good reports from (who I consider) creditable people that post on this site.
I HAVE drawn attention to (what I consider) Asinine statements from the ARx website (a site that I also describe as Hokey) Please take this as personal feedback, but I don't recall anyone disagreeing with me.
For what it's worth, I really do hope I get positive results from this Ax test, Who knows, I might then try the 'real' ARx and become a regular user!
Remember, I'm not out to trash ARx, I'm just re-telling my honest experiences from my inital attempt to purchase through to application and results. No more, No less!
If you still feel the product I have is bogus, I will be pleased to send you the bottle, including a few dregs of product. I'm sure it will be of interest to you.
No other metal cleaner I've seen on this site claims to have been purchased by the U.S. Federal Government, But many advertised Oil Treatments (including Slick 50) have been, so I'm not sure what that proves!
I have NEVER said ANYTHING disparaging about the ARX product! in fact I have said several times that I have been impressed by the good reports from (who I consider) creditable people that post on this site.
I HAVE drawn attention to (what I consider) Asinine statements from the ARx website (a site that I also describe as Hokey) Please take this as personal feedback, but I don't recall anyone disagreeing with me.
For what it's worth, I really do hope I get positive results from this Ax test, Who knows, I might then try the 'real' ARx and become a regular user!
Remember, I'm not out to trash ARx, I'm just re-telling my honest experiences from my inital attempt to purchase through to application and results. No more, No less!
I believe in the product, but admittedly the web site has a really hokey look to it.
Originally Posted By: Crashbox
FOR THE RECORD: I AM THE GUILTY ONE WHO SENT SPITTY THE TWO BOTTLES OF AUTO-RX.
You're not guilty of anything. You bought it, you own it, you can do what you want with it.
FOR THE RECORD: I AM THE GUILTY ONE WHO SENT SPITTY THE TWO BOTTLES OF AUTO-RX.
You're not guilty of anything. You bought it, you own it, you can do what you want with it.
Originally Posted By: XS650
Originally Posted By: Frank
We just got our first order from the US Federal Goverment, do you know of any other metal cleaner product on this board that can make this statement?
And we all know that if the federal government bought something, it has to be good.
Frank, I'm a marginal supporter of your product because it helped on 1 out of 3 of my vehicles, but your that statement was meaningless.
+1
Originally Posted By: Frank
We just got our first order from the US Federal Goverment, do you know of any other metal cleaner product on this board that can make this statement?
And we all know that if the federal government bought something, it has to be good.
Frank, I'm a marginal supporter of your product because it helped on 1 out of 3 of my vehicles, but your that statement was meaningless.
+1
Originally Posted By: Saturn_Fan
First Oilgal craters, now Crashbox appears to be leaving the forum. What's going on around here lately?
Forum rage - like road rage but in a forum environment. I think people do and say things in this environment that people will not do face to face.
Hmmm.... maybe I can get a PH.D. or at least a research grant on this one...
Honestly, people are forgetting why they are on this forum and what being part of a community means. I, for one, joined this forum to learn more about products like oil and the various additives (good, bad, or indifferent) out there in the world. Does product A work? Could be. May be. Most definitely be. Maybe not. Those are all good questions and answers - that's why I'm here. Does it mean that we beat each other over the head with a stick because they don't share the same opinion? In the normal just society no we don't. In this one, it seems that sometimes we do!
First Oilgal craters, now Crashbox appears to be leaving the forum. What's going on around here lately?
Forum rage - like road rage but in a forum environment. I think people do and say things in this environment that people will not do face to face.
Hmmm.... maybe I can get a PH.D. or at least a research grant on this one...
Honestly, people are forgetting why they are on this forum and what being part of a community means. I, for one, joined this forum to learn more about products like oil and the various additives (good, bad, or indifferent) out there in the world. Does product A work? Could be. May be. Most definitely be. Maybe not. Those are all good questions and answers - that's why I'm here. Does it mean that we beat each other over the head with a stick because they don't share the same opinion? In the normal just society no we don't. In this one, it seems that sometimes we do!
Spitty,
I understand what you're trying to do. In order to receive a credible opinion of the product, you have to use it, and I'm in the process of it with the engine as well.
Keep us updated, and don't pay any attention to some of Frank's comments, sometimes they're pointless or the same quote that is still pointless in the thread.
I understand what you're trying to do. In order to receive a credible opinion of the product, you have to use it, and I'm in the process of it with the engine as well.
Keep us updated, and don't pay any attention to some of Frank's comments, sometimes they're pointless or the same quote that is still pointless in the thread.
Originally Posted By: Craftsman
Originally Posted By: Saturn_Fan
First Oilgal craters, now Crashbox appears to be leaving the forum. What's going on around here lately?
Forum rage - like road rage but in a forum environment. I think people do and say things in this environment that people will not do face to face.
Hmmm.... maybe I can get a PH.D. or at least a research grant on this one...
Honestly, people are forgetting why they are on this forum and what being part of a community means. I, for one, joined this forum to learn more about products like oil and the various additives (good, bad, or indifferent) out there in the world. Does product A work? Could be. May be. Most definitely be. Maybe not. Those are all good questions and answers - that's why I'm here. Does it mean that we beat each other over the head with a stick because they don't share the same opinion? In the normal just society no we don't. In this one, it seems that sometimes we do!
[/quote] FOR THE RECORD: I AM THE GUILTY ONE WHO SENT SPITTY THE TWO BOTTLES OF AUTO-RX.
Yes, and Crashbox flatly refused payment for the product or shipping! Wadda Guy!!
However, this was never my intention, so I had to stoop to 'devious means' to compensate him. The Ax I will be testing will be used on a neighbours Pickup free of charge (But I do belive 'what go's around comes around')
My point is, There is still goodwill on this site!
The fact that we are discussing ARx at all should be a Plus for the product. I'm not sure what the problem is here, but it seems that unless post praising ARx to the hilt you get a curt (of worse) response. Is this good PR?
With regard to the '95% vehicle problems' statement, If Frank can show the resurch/Figures that lead to this claim, I'm sure we'll all be impressed, and I will humbly apologize for calling it false. That will be the end of it! It is not my intention for this thread to turn into a Frank baiting Spitty bashing diatribe, That benefits no-one.
Originally Posted By: Saturn_Fan
First Oilgal craters, now Crashbox appears to be leaving the forum. What's going on around here lately?
Forum rage - like road rage but in a forum environment. I think people do and say things in this environment that people will not do face to face.
Hmmm.... maybe I can get a PH.D. or at least a research grant on this one...
Honestly, people are forgetting why they are on this forum and what being part of a community means. I, for one, joined this forum to learn more about products like oil and the various additives (good, bad, or indifferent) out there in the world. Does product A work? Could be. May be. Most definitely be. Maybe not. Those are all good questions and answers - that's why I'm here. Does it mean that we beat each other over the head with a stick because they don't share the same opinion? In the normal just society no we don't. In this one, it seems that sometimes we do!
[/quote] FOR THE RECORD: I AM THE GUILTY ONE WHO SENT SPITTY THE TWO BOTTLES OF AUTO-RX.
Yes, and Crashbox flatly refused payment for the product or shipping! Wadda Guy!!
However, this was never my intention, so I had to stoop to 'devious means' to compensate him. The Ax I will be testing will be used on a neighbours Pickup free of charge (But I do belive 'what go's around comes around')
My point is, There is still goodwill on this site!
The fact that we are discussing ARx at all should be a Plus for the product. I'm not sure what the problem is here, but it seems that unless post praising ARx to the hilt you get a curt (of worse) response. Is this good PR?
With regard to the '95% vehicle problems' statement, If Frank can show the resurch/Figures that lead to this claim, I'm sure we'll all be impressed, and I will humbly apologize for calling it false. That will be the end of it! It is not my intention for this thread to turn into a Frank baiting Spitty bashing diatribe, That benefits no-one.
I agree. I see very few negative comments about A-RX on this site, but even neutral comments often get taken overly personally by certain people. I would say that a little bit of patience and understanding towards people who have a healthy skepticism of this product would be a better approach. The lack of that sort of leaves a bad taste in my mouth about the product in general, fair or not.
There is plenty of evidence that ARX in the oil lowers wear metals. All of the oil analysis tests performed were done third party, by a very well respected individual on this board. Just because the tests are highlighted on the ARX web site, don't think that they are not very real and meaningful. All engines wear over time. Oil is not perfect. A motor is somewhat of a living thing. Over the coarse of a motors life, it ingests massive amounts of air and fuel and dispells tons of exhaust gases. You can't tell me that by keeping the inards cleaner won't help that motor from performing at a higher level longer.
The motor oil will sure perform better in a clean environment.
So I am very much in agreement of the statement on the ARX site regarding 95% of internal motor problems are caused by contaminants.
I don't hold any high hopes for the water glass on the valve cover telling us too much here. If the Yota truck picks up a bit in mpg, I wouldn't be suprized, although this is not a motor that typically suffers from stuck rings, which is where the most gains in performance related to mpg, surround.
The motor oil will sure perform better in a clean environment.
So I am very much in agreement of the statement on the ARX site regarding 95% of internal motor problems are caused by contaminants.
I don't hold any high hopes for the water glass on the valve cover telling us too much here. If the Yota truck picks up a bit in mpg, I wouldn't be suprized, although this is not a motor that typically suffers from stuck rings, which is where the most gains in performance related to mpg, surround.
I'm a fan of testing and experiments, and appreciate that you're taking the time to do this. I think the compression testing will give the most definitive results.
I've just added one bottle of Auto-Rx to our '98 Caravan, which has no apparent oil related issues (i.e., sludge, oil consumption, etc.) and roughly the same mileage as your test vehicle, so maybe there will be some interesting findings to gleam from...
Are you planning on using the initial bottle for at least 3,000 miles?
I've just added one bottle of Auto-Rx to our '98 Caravan, which has no apparent oil related issues (i.e., sludge, oil consumption, etc.) and roughly the same mileage as your test vehicle, so maybe there will be some interesting findings to gleam from...
Are you planning on using the initial bottle for at least 3,000 miles?
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