Purflux LS410

[82DMC12]

Hi Group,

The Purflux oil filter for my car is an LS410. This filter is becoming difficult to find in the US but I feel it is the best filter available for my application (1982 DeLorean).

1. Does anyone know where I can find a stash of these?
2. There is a Bosch equivalent that is my 2nd choice from my usual vendors. I have heard there is a difference between the German Bosch filters and the US Bosch filters? Can anyone elaborate? The filter costs much less but is it any good?
3. Does anyone know if there is a Mann or Mahle filter available? And from where?

Price is no concern. I just paid $40 for two Purflux filters shipped to my door. Price has doubled since they became unavailable to my usual vendors. I only change the oil once a year before storage and put about 2000 miles on during the driving season. I use Mobil Delvac 1300 Super. Great stuff!

Thanks -
Andy

 

[Gary Allan]

That cross ref's to a Baldwin B163. It's a common 3/4-16 thread filter.

There was no direct xref to WIX ..but the B163 xref's to a WIX 51307

There is nothing special that I can see in this filter. It has the standard 2.8/2.4 gasket.

Part Number: 51307
UPC Number: 765809513075
Principal Application: Volvo (64-92), Ford Mustang (74-78), Various HD Applications
All Applications
Style: Spin-On Lube Filter
Service: Lube/Transmission
Type: Full Flow
Media: Paper
Height: 3.812
Outer Diameter Top: 3.663
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 3/4-16
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: 8-11
Anti-Drain Back Valve: Yes
Burst Pressure-PSI: 325
Max Flow Rate: 7-9 GPM
Nominal Micro Rating: 28

Gasket Diameters
Number O.D. I.D. Thk.
Attached 2.834 2.462 0.200

It has the bigger 3.663 can diameter ..which means that you can use anything like a FL1A or FL300 sized filter.


So, you can head to ANY parts store and get a standard Ford/Mopar filter of whatever length you can handle.

If you want to buy in bulk, check out fleetfilter.com. They can even give you the xref'd 51307 which, among various pieces of internationally available farm impliments, is a custom fit for your Volvo V6 Delorean

Quote:

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CLARK EQUIPMENT+Fork Lift Trucks C500-355 w/Waukesha D155 Gas & LP Engine
CLARK EQUIPMENT+Fork Lift Trucks C500-685 w/Continental F227 Gas & LP Engine
DAVIS+Trenchers DH4 w/Leyland Engine
DELOREAN DMC-12 2.8L Volvo
DITCHWITCH+Trenchers VP12 w/Onan NHMS Engine
FORD MUSTANG V6 2.8L 171 CID
FORD MUSTANG II V6 2.8L 171 CID
FORD+Diesel Industrial Engines 104 4 Cyl.

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[Quickbeam]

We service one of those things. Forgive me but what a POS. Very poorly built. I saw one dropped from a helicopter at an airshow a few years ago. It didn't fly very well

Anyway, as I recall that filter doesn't have a bypass in it. The bypass is actually in the filter mount. I put a motorguard on it 4 years ago. He changes the TP and we change the oil and full flow once every two years when he brings it in for emissions. The oil always looks great. We've been putting either PureOnes or Mann Hummels on it. I never did see anything special about the Purflux. Even cut open it never impressed me.

 

[unDummy]

Yep, just a 3/4" threaded filter. Nothing special.
Where do the rumours start that one is soooo much better then another?

Prove the rumour wrong. Run that Purflux for 3k miles, do a UOA with particle count. Repeat with another filter like Fram, Napa, Purolator, or .....

Its a lousy PRV engine(not that I didn't rack up several hundred thousand miles on a couple). With good oil, it won't care what filter you are using.

Put the money saved on the filter toward better things, like beer.

 

[Quickbeam]

A B28F PRV. Gutless 3 liter. Reliable enough but sounds like a bad of rocks. Has that funky kjetronic injection system on it. Not hard to work on, just different.

Engine aside the car is awful. Every system is badly done. Electrical, cooling, steering, weak transmission, you name it. There's also a suspension flaw that can lead to sudden collapse and loss of control. They aren't worth much either. Some people like them but for the life of me I can't figure out why.

I guess I should answer his question. We use the Mann W 719-5 filter. Easy to come by but as you say any old 3/4" will work. IIRC the first time it came in it had a Toyota filter on it. Worked fine.

 

[Gary Allan]

That was a popular engine in its day. Pukeout and a couple of others availed themselves of the Swedish alloy. Wasn't the k-jetronic the same one that was on the VW and BMW of the same era. I believe my 78 320i used the k-jetronic. The 5 series, iirc, got the more advanced L-jetronic. Very reliable and, for the time, long lived. Bosch meant something back then.

I'll take your word on the rest of it. They really didn't have a chance to iron too many bugs out. I don't imagine that their R&D staff were 1/100th any other auto manufacturers steno pool.

 

[Quickbeam]

The PRV in some forms can deliver real performance but that verison was lame. Smogged to death. It's an odd fire engine too. I think a stock Delorean makes somewhere around 100 HP at the wheels. IIRC the PRV was also used in some Chrylser cars.

The k-jet was used on some high end vehicles. Older Ferraris come to mind. When I learned it I didn't know whether to shake my head or nod in admiration. Still don't. It's very reliable if fed clean fuel but being pretty much a 100% mechanical injection system it can be fussy at times. It pales next to modern EFI but every EFI system todays traces it's roots back to Bosch's electronic systems. Ja...German engineering

I hate to bash any car but when you work on them you can't help but have opinions. The Delorean truly is badly designed in many areas. Lucas electrics and undersized wiring for example. It's become a cult car these days but I agree with undummy: save your money for beer.

 

[Gary Allan]

The injection system didn't have the capability to adapt to altitudes above 5000 ft. The owners manual stated that if you were living above that level that you had to have it tuned to the new primary stomping grounds. The way it was worded, it appeared that tuning a sea level -5000ft engine to 5000+ spec's would result in better fuel economy. I never had any issues with it ..other then if you attempted to "fuel squeeze" by driving like a "mature woman" ..that the engine idled like poop the next day. Very intolerant of carbon deposits. I still had a point distributor in 1978 ..and those 'prone to corrosion" ceramic fuses.

I think the Lucas electrics was to continue the established tradition of lousy wiring in para-British automobiles. It was probably part of a package 'jobs" deal with being produced in Ireland. You can't shake up too many things at one time.

100hp at the wheels wasn't all that limited for the era ..at least in streetable form with any type of manners that wouldn't have you in the shop every week for a tune (think Porsche of the era). No truely "ultra go fast" was going to be a norm for anyone who bought it. The competition, if there really was any, was pretty smogged themselves at the time. The industry was into stop gap measures from then until maybe a decade ago.

You're right, it's a cult collectable ..like a Bricklin ...maybe a Jenson-Healey (I don't know much about either of them other then they didn't last long). I just saw a Jenson the other week. 440 (IIRC) and a 3" tubular type frame rail deal (taking a peek at the under side while on the lift).

 

[Quickbeam]

You know your k-jet Gary. The WOT switch (if it was a k-jet with lambda control) has to be disconnected at high altitudes. Otherwise the mixture screw in the airflow unit has to be tweaked. The best way to work properly on a k-jet is using a gas analyzer. And yeah, they can be REAL fussy when it comes to idle.

Lucas: The Prince of Darkness. You're probably right about the Irish deal. That's one thing I'll say about the car: it has an err, interesting history. Did you know it's really a Lotus underneath? They designed the chassis. Makes it even odder it has a potentially fatal flaw. Had the Delorean company survived it'd probably been sued out of existence by now.

I drive it when it's in for service. Not gutless but not fast. The word adequate comes to mind. It's a heavy car for it's size too. All that stainless adds up. They're bolt on panels btw, hung onto a fiberglass underbody. Otherwise the car is built from pretty much off the shelf parts. GM, Volvo, Renault, etc.

The owner tells me it was marketed as competition to the Vette of that era so it's seems you're right. It can be made reliable but you'd either better know how to do it yourself or have a boat load of cash to pay someone else. I'd still be lerry of taking it far from home though. Just too many weak points in it's systems.

I think if it weren't for the movies the car would've faded away but with those of that era coming of age they may become worth more. Sort of like the muscle car thing of our time. (From other posts I'm assuming you're an old guy like me

)

Appears the poster takes good care of his if he's willing to spend $40 on oil filters. Here's hoping BITOG has educated him.

 

[Gary Allan]

Yes, I'm a pre-geezer (50)

A good bit of revolutionary automotive inovation has taken place in "our lifetime"

The OP is like most of us before we get to peek inside the infamous black box facade. In my youth I purchased a Permacool dual mount under the Fram part number (it was in the Fram cat). I took it for granted that the HP1 filter was the only thing that fit it. @$6 and a minimum order of 6 filters (my buddy owned the parts store) I was rather dismayed to find out that they were a common Ford thread. He had a good laugh at my expense that I had just spent about $100 (in 1977 $$) to buy Ford filters.

I hope that he feels better then I did when I found out was behind the curtain.

 

[G-MAN]

Quote:

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It pales next to modern EFI but every EFI system todays traces it's roots back to Bosch's electronic systems. Ja...German engineering

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Actually, every modern EFI system today traces its roots back to Bendix's Electrojector system from the late 50s. Bendix (a good ol' American company) sold their patents for this system to Bosch in the early 60s. Bosch later utilized the Bendix design as the basis for their own electronic systems.

 

[Quickbeam]

I stand corrected. A quick trip to Wikipedia shows you to be right. Not that I ever doubted you. Who says the internet is only a global pornography network?

I should have known better since Bendix mechanical constant injection systems live on in nearly every Continental (Teledyne Motors) piston aviation engine flying today.

Thanks G-Man, and thanks for the point out about Dan Stern. I'm learning not much gets by this crowd.

 

[82DMC12]

Quote:

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A B28F PRV. Gutless 3 liter. Reliable enough but sounds like a bad of rocks. Has that funky kjetronic injection system on it. Not hard to work on, just different.

Engine aside the car is awful. Every system is badly done. Electrical, cooling, steering, weak transmission, you name it. There's also a suspension flaw that can lead to sudden collapse and loss of control. They aren't worth much either. Some people like them but for the life of me I can't figure out why.

I guess I should answer his question. We use the Mann W 719-5 filter. Easy to come by but as you say any old 3/4" will work. IIRC the first time it came in it had a Toyota filter on it. Worked fine.

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Quickbeam,

As Gary has pointed out, the K-Jet system is extremely reliable once it has been tuned properly. It holds its tune and needs no maintenance for many years as long as the car is driven from time to time. It's not as sophisticated as today's fuel injection, but it is also 25 years old now.

Not quite sure where you come from with the comments about the car being poorly designed. The engine, as described above, is bullet-proof. The transmission is from a Renault R30 which was also used in the Renault Alpine A310 and Lotus Esprit where it handled over 300 hp reliably. The transmission is bullet-proof as long as you replace the plastic clutch line with a stainless braided variety.

Electrical has a couple of weak systems in it but then again, with a couple of quick modifications it is very reliable. Most cars built in the UK had electrical gremlins due to Lucas.

Steering is pin-point precise as long as it is in good shape, since there is no power steering, the wheel is a little stiff at low speed but is extremely communicative once rolling.

Cooling system could be considered a weak point but with a bleeder hose installed, 3 row radiator, and high output fans I have never had a problem.

By suspension flaw I assume you are talking about the trailing arm bolts. Can't blame DeLorean on that one - that was Lotus' fault. These days we just replace the stock bolts with Iconol bolts.

The car's styling still appears modern and the interior is much better than most other cars of its era. Compare the interior to say, a 1981 Corvette or a Ferrari 308. Very high quality materials, comfortable, and ergonomic. Still contemporary.

While light on horsepower, the car is only 2800 lbs, which is lighter than a same-year Corvette by 500 lbs, a 280ZX by 100 lbs, a Ferrari 308 GTSi by 400 lbs, a Ferrari Mondial by 700 lbs, a Maserati Merak by 300 lbs, and just a hair heavier than a Porsche 911SC. Hardly heavy by any means. The stainless steel panels actually weigh about the same as a painted metal panel, so you can't blame the materials.

To put horsepower into perspective during the early 80's, the Corvette with a 4 barrel V8 only made 190 hp and weighed 500 lbs more. Emissions choked everyone back. Good thing I ripped my stock exhaust out and installed headers and a Magnaflow muffler!

Values on DeLoreans have been increasing over the last 5 years for the cars that have been restored or are in top shape.

I belong to a US DeLorean owners' club - we meet every two years for an expo and most of the 100+ attendees drive their cars from all over North America. Once a small handful of weak point are addressed, these cars are so reliable that I just turn the key and drive it 1500 miles with no preparation.

Clearly the DeLoreans you have been in contact with have been neglected or poorly maintained.

 

[Quickbeam]

I know the owners of these cars can be, shall we say, defensive. They have good reason. However you don't have to tell me about these cars because I work on them. I said the engine was reliable and the k-jet used on many engines of the era. I never said it wasn't reliable but it can be fussy since it's doesn't compensate like an efi system. Since it's mechanical that's no surprise as mechanical systems are inherently less reliable than electronic. Nor do I know of any other system that requires a complete set up using gas analysis after what would be considered minor work on other engines.

It wasn't my intent to place blame for all the Delorean's faults. I'm pretty sure anyone killed or injured in a suspension collapse could care less whether Delorean or Lotus was responsible. What about the other issues? How about failed lower control arms, broken ball joints, etc? Were these not recall items? What are recalls if not an indication of bad design?

Bullet proof transmissions? The wisdom of a plastic clutch line aside (you call that good design?) I'm sure you're aware the manuals have weak input shafts and there's some sort of shaft failure that can punch a hole in the case while the automatics are undersized and suffer from chronic computer problems. All this can be rectified yes, but it still points to poor original design. Steering? How about the shaft bushing?

To say the electrical system has a few weak points is being kind. There are too many to list starting with the original alternators and going downhill from there. It's my understanding more than one Deloran has burned to the ground from either an electrical fire or your beloved k-jet. As for the cooling system what can you expect from a car with the engine in the rear and the radiator up front? Lots of piping, hoses, and a known history of leaks, bad radiators and water pump failures.

Styling is in the eye of the beholder so it's a moot point. I personally think the car looks very dated, more so than even it's model year and gutless is gutless regardless of what the car weighs. An engine that is inadequate (for what was claimed to be a sports car at least) is yet another sign of faulty engineering.

It's also a moot point what material the trailing arm bolts are replaced with as it's a moot point all the other faults can be corrected. That they need to be replaced at all is a sign of poor design, either of the bolt itself or the joint. I wouldn't call the car's front/rear weight bias exactly great engineering either. How many other cars require larger tires in the rear to tame potentially atrocious handling? My point is any poorly designed machine can be made reliable with enough money and upgrades. That every system in this car needs to be revamped in some form is indicative of poor design. That was the point I was making. Your repsonse is to offer excuses for it by stating "well yeah, but it all can be fixed". That in no way changes the fact the car was badly engineered and/or built to begin with.

I've also heard of a myriad of other minor problems ranging from bad window regulators, cracking of those wonderful interior materials you spoke of, delamination of windshields, speedometer drive failures, exterior water leaks, and exhaust gaskets. The cars I've dealt with also suffer from all around poor fit and finish. Very few of these problems appear to be age related. They're either out right bad engineering or the use of inferior materials, assmeblies, and build quality. Put this car's engineering up against any Toyota of the era for example and it falls on it's face in nearly every category.

Understand, I don't hate the car. It's just another machine to me. There are worse ones out there but frankly, I don't know of many. Btw, the ones I work on are well maintained because I see to it. They have to be or they wouldn't give reliable service. There isn't an unbiased mechanic or automotive enthusiast I know who would give the Delorean high marks compared to most cars of it's era. I have to admit though when I saw one dropped at that airshow the crowd went wild when it hit the ground. I can only imagine the reasons why.

Since it's a cult car I think the problem here is really quite simple: People who don't own them tend to be more objective. You'll also forgive me if I wonder how knowledgeable an individual is regarding automotive design if he forks out $40 for a pair of mediocre oil filters.

 

[82DMC12]

Quote:

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Since it's a cult car I think the problem here is really quite simple: People who don't own them tend to be more objective. You'll also forgive me if I wonder how knowledgeable an individual is regarding automotive design if he forks out $40 for a pair of mediocre oil filters.

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Quickbeam,

I will not attempt to tell you that the car is the pinnacle of late 70's engineering because it is not. However, for a car with a production run of only around 9000 and for being completely redesigned by Lotus two years prior to introduction, the car is reasonably well built and at least as reliable as any other European low-production car. Yes the control arms and ball joints were recalled... but I see similar recalls by today's auto manufacturers who have tens of times the R&D budget that DeLorean had. To expect a car to come from scratch without any flaws or recalls is expecting too much. For only a few hundred bucks these cars can be made quite reliable, as I have said. All I do is turn the key and drive anywhere in the US, and I have many acquaintences whom have similar results.

I spent $40 on a pair of oil filters because all of the US-made xref filters have different dimensions, forcing me to relocate the oil pressure sending unit if I wanted to use them. It is also difficult with my headers to use a longer filter. I need a filter just like the Purflux. That's why I spent $40 on two oil filters, and it doesn't mean I don't know anything about good car design. I really don't care what it costs, I just want the right part.

 

[Quickbeam]

As I said objectivity is the key here. Try telling my customer it needs only a few hundred to make it reliable. He's spent a lot more than that on it. But ok, fair enough. I wouldn't own one but that's just me. My customer says he like the attention he gets but at the same time is embarressed to drive it. Bizzare. Why he keeps it is beyond me. I think it's some sort of insecurity or ego thing but as long as he keeps paying me I'm all for it

As already posted by myself and others there are many oil filters available domestically that'll fit the car without modifying anything. The Manns and several Totoyta filters among others. You just didn't search hard enough. Try the WIX website next time you need to check a filter's specs.