Pricing of synthetic oil

[wemay]

Tipping point depends on context. Yours isn't wrong, just different. My meaning centers on the overall industry movement...which is undoubtedly towards EV (artificial or not, forced by Gov't or not. etc.), whether we on bitog will buy one or not. Time will tell how far we go down this road.

 

[CKN]

Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson

Originally Posted by CKN

Originally Posted by anndel

Absolutely correct! The environmental activists were pushing a bill in the Hawaii state legislature and they even passed a bill that died in committee to ban all fossil fuel vehicles and go EV here in Hawaii. These people don't even have a clue that mining lithium for the batteries damages and pollutes the Earth more than fossil fuel production, refining and driving. Our friend had a Nissan Leaf that finally died and to replace the batteries would have cost $8,000. They traded it in for a gasoline burning Toyota Corolla.

Well....on the upside any where on any Island is well within range for an electric vehicle. Last I heard they were still using diesel to generate electricity on some of the islands......however that could of changed.

On Maui they've had 20 plus wind turbines for several years now. In fact last time we were there half of them were idled.

It would seem for wind power they would need some sort of back up. And they do-Also referred to as the Maalaea Power Plant, is located off of North Kihei Road, just minutes away from Maalaea Harbor. At this power plant, fossil fuels are converted into electricity. Most of the island (and our surrounding Maui County islands of Lanai and Molokai) get power from this source. Fossil Fuels pollute the environment and are not a renewable energy. https://mauiguide.com/maui-energy/

 

[DGXR]

I don't think synthetic oil will ever be cheaper than conventional oil, all other factors being equal. Who would pay more money for lower quality? Yes the question seems ridiculous, but that's the essence of this thread.

 

[RDY4WAR]

The line between "conventional" and "synthetic" base oil is becoming more and more blurred so I think it'll end up just being "oil" with varying levels of performance. There are areas where group I and II conventional base oils outperform their group III and IV counterparts, namely in solubility/miscibility and pressure-viscosity coefficient.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted by buster

Originally Posted by RDY4WAR

Oil is cheap. Whether you spend $4/qt or $14/qt. Let's take that for example. 6 quart capacity 7,500 mile OCI 15,000 miles (2 OCI) per year The $14/qt oil would cost an additional $120/yr ($10 per month). Realistically, the higher end oil would go longer intervals than that also. The $4/qt oil would account for 0.12% of my annual budget. At $14/qt, it's 0.41%. By comparison, fuel accounts for 4.54%. (for 1 vehicle) I see no reason to go cheap on oil. That said, I can also see the reasoning against it when you have good UOAs with cheap oils. As for electric vehicles, I don't see that being a complete takeover for quite some time.

Agree 100%. I've never understood the mindset of those that cut corners on oil for their car that costs thousands of dollars.

I agree. I paid $5 a qt in 1978 when I first bought M1 5-20. At that time Valvoline 10-40 cost abut 45 cents a qt. However I tripled my OCI and saw the very noticeable benefits of M1 over dino. The cost of M1 today is around 5-6 bucks a qt by the jug at WM.

 

[Doublehaul]

Any more your not cutting corners. Cheap oil with the same certs does just as well as expensive oil with the same certs. This is not the 70s. Oil is a regulated commodity like it or not. Marketing is just that...makes you spend more and feel good doing it. Tig...do you honestly feel Mobil 1 is the only oil capable of 10k ocis in non-demanding port injected engines? I run Mobil1...but it's the cheapest MB229.5 I can find!

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Originally Posted by Doublehaul

Any more your not cutting corners. Cheap oil with the same certs does just as well as expensive oil with the same certs. This is not the 70s. Oil is a regulated commodity like it or not.

Then why doesn't Supertech describe it's cleaning power on it's jugs, much like Pennzoil, Castrol and Mobil-1 do? Same certs dies not translate into same cleaning power. If one has GDI /TGDI engines, I would be asking Warren why they obstain from mentioning what all the major brands mention on keeping those pistons and valves clean as possible.

 

[Doublehaul]

Because their dexos 1 gen 2 certs does it for them. There is absolutely zero proof that any marketing slogan or brand position translates into performance. That's what certs are for. For the record...Pepsi never made anyone younger and magnum condoms...well you get it If you like advertised promises you will love Lucas products. Thank me later lol

 

[Doublehaul]

Btw...this is directly from their website About This Item Better fuel economy Superior Wear Protection Cleaner Engines

 

[Triple_Se7en]

When verbage I need is missing on the label, I put the label back on the store shelf and reach for a product with the needed verbage. Those oil certs without attached verbage is a recipe for subpar longetivity. I keep my vehicles from birth to old age junkyard burials. They were all driven to the junkyard 18-19 years later. Thank you major brands for getting those badly rusted vehicles to their last destinations. Maybe Warren will send you-out a tow truck to get yours in 18-19 more years..... oops, I mean 13-14 more years

 

[Doublehaul]

...this is why I work in sales. Ole PT Barnum was on to something

 

[BLND1]

Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en

When verbage I need is missing on the label, I put the label back on the store shelf and reach for a product with the needed verbage. Those oil certs without attached verbage is a recipe for subpar longetivity. I keep my vehicles from birth to old age junkyard burials. They were all driven to the junkyard 18-19 years later. Thank you major brands for getting those badly rusted vehicles to their last destinations. Maybe Warren will send you-out a tow truck to get yours in 18-19 more years..... oops, I mean 13-14 more years

LOL, dude the last time you made this argument it didn't go well for you. You want to do it again?

 

[N Heat]

Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en

Maybe Warren will send you-out a tow truck to get yours in 18-19 more years..... oops, I mean 13-14 more years

Lots of Supertech fed engines are still on the road at 18-19 yrs and not in a junk yard. My Suburban will be turning 18 next month. Well over half of its 277k have been on ST conv 5w 30 with 6k intervals.

 

[RDY4WAR]

There's benefits to boutique oils other than just wear protection. I switched from Mobil 1 5w-30 to Driven LS30 5w-30 in an old 289 SBF and the idle increased by 60 rpm. I actually had to bump the idle screw on the carb to bring the idle back down to 700 rpm. That's because of the much lower friction coefficient. I've found oils that contain high amounts of MoDTC and other Moly-based friction reducers (600+ ppm) have worked very well at quietening the dreaded piston slap noise from the LS-based engines. Granted it's not a noise to be concerned about, but it's still annoying. I've found higher end oils to operate at lower temperatures (as much as 10*F cooler) compared to generic API synthetics which I'm sure is a result of a lower friction coefficient and better ability to shed heat. The extremely low NOACK (<6%) of the high end oils helps keep down oil consumption and helps keep carbon deposits out of the intake, ports, and chambers. The higher end PAO/POE synthetics resist aeration and foaming better as well (more of a concern in the racing industry, but still a plus). With more effective anti-oxidants, and base oils that are naturally more resistant to oxidation, longer oil change intervals are easily achieved. API / ILSAC, while being a decent bare bones minimum for oil performance, is heavily restricted due to emissions concerns. Limits to phosphorus and sulfur greatly limit the oil's performance. That's not something that interests me. That's why I use oils from companies like High Performance Lubricants and Driven.

 

[Doublehaul]

Show me a spec...and I'll believe. No spec...it's marketing to me plain and simple.

 

[RazorsEdge]

Originally Posted by RDY4WAR

There's benefits to boutique oils other than just wear protection. I switched from Mobil 1 5w-30 to Driven LS30 5w-30 in an old 289 SBF and the idle increased by 60 rpm. I actually had to bump the idle screw on the carb to bring the idle back down to 700 rpm. That's because of the much lower friction coefficient. I've found oils that contain high amounts of MoDTC and other Moly-based friction reducers (600+ ppm) have worked very well at quietening the dreaded piston slap noise from the LS-based engines. Granted it's not a noise to be concerned about, but it's still annoying. I've found higher end oils to operate at lower temperatures (as much as 10*F cooler) compared to generic API synthetics which I'm sure is a result of a lower friction coefficient and better ability to shed heat. The extremely low NOACK (<6%) of the high end oils helps keep down oil consumption and helps keep carbon deposits out of the intake, ports, and chambers. The higher end PAO/POE synthetics resist aeration and foaming better as well (more of a concern in the racing industry, but still a plus). With more effective anti-oxidants, and base oils that are naturally more resistant to oxidation, longer oil change intervals are easily achieved. API / ILSAC, while being a decent bare bones minimum for oil performance, is heavily restricted due to emissions concerns. Limits to phosphorus and sulfur greatly limit the oil's performance. That's not something that interests me. That's why I use oils from companies like High Performance Lubricants and Driven.

👍...Ž

 

[Doublehaul]

I dont disagree either...I use a spec other than what my vehicles specify but it's a verifiable non brand specific spec. In my case I really prefer mb 229.5 as I put my vehicles through some high stress operation. In my built v8s both na and force inducted I typically ran 15w40 hdeo's as I saw higher oil temps. Same same in my OPE and ATVs I will say that I'm pretty intrigued by the d1g2 30wts though

 

[ChrisD46]

Originally Posted by Doublehaul

Any more your not cutting corners. Cheap oil with the same certs does just as well as expensive oil with the same certs. This is not the 70s. Oil is a regulated commodity like it or not. Marketing is just that...makes you spend more and feel good doing it. Tig...do you honestly feel Mobil 1 is the only oil capable of 10k ocis in non-demanding port injected engines? I run Mobil1...but it's the cheapest MB229.5 I can find!

*While all oils which state D1 / Gen 2 certs should meet them - a number of D1 / Gen 2 certified oils differ by how much they exceed the D1 / Gen 2 specifications - such as cleaning power , having lower NOACK , temperature range , increased additives , etc.over the basic "It meets D1 / Gen 2 certs" oils .