Preliminary DP Results After Oil Change

[Jim Allen]

Got the oil changed last night. The oil ran 15,496 miles. Conventional MC 10W30 Super Duty HDEO SM/CJ4. P1 filter in there the whole time, 10K of that with a Racor ABS bypass installed (3um absolute). I have three samples to send off for tests, two for UOAs (two different labs) and one for an optical PC. Should be interesting to see vs the 5K and 10K tests.

Installed the last of my Castrol GTX 5W20 (SM from about 2008), which will be the test oil for the filter tests. Installed an MC FL820S as a baseline. Will run that 10K or so.

I finally got around to installing a Fumoto, which will greatly simplify sampling from here on. I had to resample once because I picked up grunge stuffing a sampling hose down the dipstick tube. No more-o-that!

Didn't datalog the short test drive, but the drop in oil pressure is notable between the 10W30 and the 5W20. I only got to 185F EOT and the pressure at my 1750 rpm (60 mph) test speed was 64 psi. At that temp, I am usually around 70 psi with 10W30. DP at that rpm and EOT was about 2psi on the gauges with the MC filter. The P1 with 16K miles at the same temp and rpm with 10W30 is about 4-5 psi. I will have to make sure and test a fresh P1 in this cycle for comparison with the lighter oil. I installed the DP gauges when the P1 had about 10K on it, so I have not seen it in a new state ( with 10W30 or 5W20).

I was interested to see how much of a difference in oil pressure there was between the 5W20 and 10W30 conventionals. I had a high VI 5W20 syn in there previously and it would deliver about 63 psi at the same rpm and oil temp.

 

[Colt45ws]

For reference; Are you using an actual DP gauge, or just two OP gauges?

 

[Jim Allen]

Two OP gauges but when I datalog (all the gauges are daisy-chained and feed into a central control unit with a USB port), it reads four times per second so I get good numbers then. They are stepper gauges so they dance a little making exact measurement a little touch.

 

[HTSS_TR]

If the OP of 5W20 drops below 40 PSI at the same RPM and temp I would worry about it. Above 60 PSI at less than 2000 RPM with 185F temp is pretty good. The pressure drop of 10% from 10W30 to 5W20 is expected.

 

[Colt45ws]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Two OP gauges but when I datalog (all the gauges are daisy-chained and feed into a central control unit with a USB port), it reads four times per second so I get good numbers then. They are stepper gauges so they dance a little making exact measurement a little touch.


What type of system is this? Have a link?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen

Didn't datalog the short test drive, but the drop in oil pressure is notable between the 10W30 and the 5W20. I only got to 185F EOT and the pressure at my 1750 rpm (60 mph) test speed was 64 psi.


"EOT" is what? ... "Engine Oil Temperature" ... ??

Jim, is this a gasoline or diesel engine?

Do you ever plan on just swapping out different oil filters on the engine with the same oil and run them at the same oil temps and engine RPM points to get comparative delta-P measurements between them all?

 

[Jim Allen]

HTSS: It won't drop below 40, I assure you. The hottest it's ever been is 219F (with syn 5W20) and the OP was ~ 60 psi @ 1750 rpm. Idle is 25-30 on 5W20 and 33-36 on 10W30 with hot oil. I can see well over 100 psi on a cold start with the 10W30.

Colt: It's Isspro's Performax. Google it. Good setup. It's primarily intended for diesels.

Zee: EOT= Engine Oil Temperature. Gas, 5.4L Modular in an F150 HD.

I am close to deciding on a test regimen for the filters I have. I will run them with the 5W20 and measure the DP at various EOT and rpm. I will then dissect the filter. Thus far, my list is:

(all are FL820s equiv. if I forget the # here)
MC FL820s
MC CM-6731-FL820 (Racing version of FL820)
Fram Tough Guard
Bosch D+
Puro Classic
Pure One
RP
Fram Ultra

Some of these have been graciously donated by the likes of dnewton3, 2010FX4, sunnyinhollister and from my own stash.

Further donations are welcome of filter brands not on this list. They must be an FL820s equivalent and a new, unused filter (no spit swapping on my rig!). You won't get it back but you will see the autopsy and the DP data.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

JA, I thought the 5.4 was very picky about using only 5W20 because of the cam phasers.

 

[Jim Allen]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
JA, I thought the 5.4 was very picky about using only 5W20 because of the cam phasers.

5W20 is optimal but I showed it wasn't absolutely necessary nor lethal to stray away from (remember at one point Ford sent out a TSB to used 10W40 to cure a phaser noise). The installation of 10W30, and the subsequent 15K run was an experiment. My initial goal was to find out how much effect the heavier oil had on VVT operation. I datalogged the cam operation with 5W20 then did the same after the 10W30 was installed. No difference. You could lay the data on top of each other. The notorious phaser noise that reputedly gets better with heavier oil... no difference. Happy top be back on 5W20 but also happy to know that a 30 grade wouldn't kill it too.

 

[KCJeep]

Great update, thanks for all you're doing!

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen

I am close to deciding on a test regimen for the filters I have. I will run them with the 5W20 and measure the DP at various EOT and rpm. I will then dissect the filter. Thus far, my list is:

(all are FL820s equiv. if I forget the # here)
MC FL820s
MC CM-6731-FL820 (Racing version of FL820)
Fram Tough Guard
Bosch D+
Puro Classic
Pure One
RP
Fram Ultra


That should be interesting.

Please post up results as you get them instead of waiting until they all have been ran through the test.

 

[Jim Allen]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

Please post up results as you get them instead of waiting until they all have been ran through the test.


That was my intent. I will do them regularly as my "shedule" ( I learned to pronounce that is shool) allows.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
JA, I thought the 5.4 was very picky about using only 5W20 because of the cam phasers.

Nope. Absolute nonsense and Internet expertise. The phasers don't actuate the piston to advance the cam til around 3000rpmish,so when the engine is cold a smart driver isn't revving above that anyways.
And from what I remember the phasers don't actuate at all until the oil reaches a predetermined temp.
So lets think about this. The phasers don't actuate til oil is hot. 5w-20 isn't really that much thinner than 10w-40 when its hot. I'll take a shot in the dark and say there MIGHT be 3 lbs difference between the 2 grades at any given rpm.
Now when you consider those phasers advance the cam in the higher rpm range one can assume the pedal is very near to the floor and the oil is pumping full blast.
So honestly is there really any difference to the way they operate on a hot engine. I seriously doubt it. If they did actuate slower it would be milliseconds.


Jim. Thanks for doing this. I'm adding to watched topics.

 

[Jim Allen]

Clevy, you are right. The system is temp sensitive but even when the system is operating, the OP to the phasers is regulated. Also, the difference in OP is more than 2-3 psi between 5W20 and 10W30.. more like around 5 psi. I predict more for 10W40 but the oil pump will go into bypass at some point above 75 psi. I hedge that because I can see 100 psi even though the oil pump is "supposedly" designed to bypass at 75. I have not reconciled that fact yet, but I digress.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
I predict more for 10W40 but the oil pump will go into bypass at some point above 75 psi. I hedge that because I can see 100 psi even though the oil pump is "supposedly" designed to bypass at 75. I have not reconciled that fact yet, but I digress.


I take it you are seeing 100 PSI on your data logger. Do you know what pressure the pump's bypass is supposedly designed to start opening at? If it is 75 PSI, then you might be seeing a "transition spike". In other words, the pump's bypass takes some time to react and the pressure will over-shoot until it can bypass enough oil volume to bring the pressure back down. Only way to know would be to hold the RPM steady while the pump is adjusting to regulate the pressure to see if the pressure over-shoots, then comes back down and settles out at a constant pressure.