PP putting pressure on M1

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LouDawg

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Now Wal-Mart (around here at least) has the 5 qt jugs of them both priced at $19.97. Not the M1 EP, just the "regular" M1. And a bigger selection of M1 to boot.

So how long before Pep Boys starts having M1 on rebate and Advance for BOGO?

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I'm glad to see Shell taking the synthetic market seriously and making such a good oil. Mobil 1 has had it too easy, too long.
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I remember a post on BITOG where a guy claimed he had talked to a Wally Auto mgr, and it was Wally ST Synth. that was going off the shelves the fastest. If so, M1 already has their hands full.
 
Mobil 1 has moved up market in price but they forgot to bring the oil with them. It's acutally not that important, it's marketing that counts. If you want the best marketed product on the shelf, Mobil 1 is an excellent choice. Out of a hundred drivers how many have any clue about what's in the bottle or what the spec's mean, three?
 
I just posted a UOA using PP. I had always used Mobil 1 prior to that in my wife's car. I think I'll be switching to PP permanently with her car.
Pep Boys has it on sale for $1.99/qt right now.
 
Was it ever determined why PP went from Group V to Group III ? Was there a problem with the Group V or was it a cost thing ?
 
M1, as an early market entrant/developer, put the price umbrella under which most motor oil companies could price. Of course they got the best price.

Along comes GrpIII with substantially lower production cost and performance 'near' that of Grp IV. At least in the US, GrpIII could be labeled 'synth'.

Then you had M1 pricing based on GrpIV but competition able to market GrpIII pricing 'near' GrpIV. Companies like Shell could smell blood...'near' GrpIV pricing with much lower GrpIII production costs.

In steps Marketing. Hey, Gross Margins of GrpIII can be really high... lets build Brand Awareness (later Loyalty)...uh, best way ? Deep Discount to people "in the know", A.K.A. virual marketing (First Driver program is best example.)

Marketing: What we lose on promotional cost we more than make up in profits later ! Hence PP, QS, Valvoline synth for $1-2/qt.

BUT WAIT, it Works ! I have spent more valuable time analyzing and recommending these products than all the free/disocunt oil I have gotten. Key element is the stuff delivers.

I know I'm getting deep discount/free oil but I'm spending time finding the best way to take advantage of the opportunity.

All of this in not lost on Mobil. Quick switch to GrpIII and selective holdout (such as 5W40 European) to keep cache'. The issue as I see it now is Mobil GrpIII not as good as Shell XHVI since Shell focused more R&D on GrpIII.

Last point. PP seems to follow the Shell line (such as add pack) while QS is doing more marketing (how many Q-xxx ?) and formula tweaking. That's great. More options (weight/promos/rebates) for me to choose from.

I could keep going about Conaco and Valvoline with Grp IV strategy but enought for now.

Gotta' Luv Free Enterprise
Gotta' Luv Grp III

Opinions expressed here are my own opinions, which have may little resemblence to reality.
 
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PP is great and Shell got exactly what they wanted in the "1st Driver's Club" when they signed up BitOGers up. Pennzoil gave away more than just oil in a nice promo, I almost feel guilty taking it, but appreciate the goodwill.
 
+1 glenncof

And if I'm reading things correctly (eg, an aritcle in Machine Lubrication - link provided by JAG) - then grp III is VERY near PAO - and indeed has surpassed it (the good R&D grp III) in additive solubility, lubricity and anti-wear. And the next generation of grp III ("grp III+" or "Super Grp") continues this trend and begins spanking PAO (VI higher than PAO). All this for significantly less processing cost than PAO.

Presently "grp III" is used often as an insult on BITOG. This insult seems no longer based in reality. PAO seems to be being surpassed or about to be surpassed in just about every key area of lubrication. The last stand for PAO appears to be in absurdly cold temp applications (though still rivaled there by grp III).

The authors of the Mach. Lube article believe PAO is destined for a small niche market.

How soon before PAO is the insult? Paying a premium for a lesser oil.

Here's a good read -
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=533
 
Quote:

Was it ever determined why PP went from Group V to Group III ? Was there a problem with the Group V or was it a cost thing ?

Click to expand...

I suspect a seal compatability problem with the eop. (shrug)
 
I have been debating whether or not to continue using M1, or to make the switch to PP or Amsoil. After asking a few questions on this board I realized that I had no data to support switching from M1 at this time. I need to send off a sample for UOA when I change the oil in my wife's 2006 Pilot next week to see how the M1 is doing in that vehicle.

I've read a few good posts here regarding M1 and PP. It seems that UOA's from vehicles that use M1 sometimes have higher Fe readings that one would expect. This does not seem to apply to all vehicles, however, which points me back to making an informed choice based on UOA results.

M1 claims to contain some PAO on their site, but it is not clear how much. So it appears that M1 may (Big ? here) be primarily made from Group III base material and some unknown percentage of Group IV PAO. A lot of folks are upset that M1 began using Group III based "synthetic" after selling a higher quality product made from Group IV true synthetic base. Pennzoil did the same thing and I do not hear a lot of people complaining. Again, this points back to basing decisions on UOA results on an application by application basis.

M1 may not be the best choice from a cost/protection standpoint, but in some applications it is a good choice. Looking at the UOA's on BITOG, I do not see every M1 sample result yielding poor results. PP appears to be a good choice for a lot of folks based on UOA's. The cost/protection data looks good as well.

Bottom Line: I plan to send off samples for UOA and base my decisions on sound data rather than marketing based emotions.
 
mfisher1967,

I'm a long term M1 user, and have been plsed with it, except I have a high consumption rate. I have anecdotally heard this is a problem with M1. My Fe level at a 4.2k dipstick sample UOA was 15ppm, which is not out of whack but is above avg. I have a purely gut feel that glenncof (above) is right - that is that the M1 reg. line may be receiving the least R&D attention of the M1 lines by ExxonMobil (and in Exxons own words, M1 EP is just a more robust version of the reg. line). And as glenncof states, Penz. may have trumped them a bit on the R&D. (Mobil 1 has several other premier lines to focus on, while Penz. premiere product is PP.)

I am personally looking forward to discontinuing my use of the M1 EP & reg. lines and moving to M1 0w40 (my van has 140k on it so I think the 40wt is justified). M1 0w40 is arguably the best of the best that can be picked up at the retail level. I am not against running grp III (or oil w/ % grp III), but I like to know it's some high level R&D stuff. PP European is also on my short list.
 
mfisher, I salute your willingness to dig thru the old threads and learn from them. There's a lot of info there, some speculation but some good info.

Regarding Pennzoil being group III and people not minding. There are two reasons. First, the group III that Pennzoil is using, it's XHVI base stock, is known to be a high performing group III base stock. Second, when bitogers heard from Johnny and other posters the rumor that Pennzoil had switched Platinum to group III, people emailed Shell about it. Shell did not deny the fact, for the most part, and did not use wiggle words and "trade secrets" to hide behind.
 
i don't understand why penz plat costs the same in canada as mobil1 and castrol syntec. we always get scr3wed up here on these things.

plus, penz never goes on sale here. canadian tire has a twice a year sale on mobil1, where the give you a 4.4L jug plus a free 1 litre bottle for $29.99 and thats as cheap as any synth comes around here, unless of course you go with the lower level stuff like tech2000 or canadian tire brand formula1 oil.
 
In my experiences down here in Louisiana, it varies from store to store. Autoparts stores seem more will to just price ALL mass market synths at the same price. Where as,at MY Wal-Mart, PP is a dollar less than M1, as is TorquePower.
 
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