Possible reactor meltdown in Japan

[MolaKule]

Quote:
"How many more warnings do we need before we finally grasp that nuclear reactors are inherently hazardous? The nuclear industry always tells us that situation like this cannot happen with modern reactors, yet Japan is currently in the middle of a potentially devastating nuclear crisis,"

"Once again, we are reminded of the inherent risks of nuclear power, which will always be vulnerable to the potentially deadly combination of human error, design failure and natural disaster."
-Jan Beranek, Greenpeace



I would like to ask GP and the other people of like mind HOW they would avoid natural disasters of the magnitude as encountered in this event?

Quote:

John Sauven of Greenpeace UK, which opposes nuclear power, says the issue with nuclear is “somehow akin to a Faustian pact: yes, you are getting a large amount of power but there is also an element of catastrophic risk associated with it”.


Yes, risk is a part of life - get over it.

The alternatives, solar and wind, are intermittent and their increasing use is already a challenge for electricity grid managers. Where else can you get such concentrated energy production, and where else are you going to be able to find enough energy to charge your Volt overnight?

 

[JHZR2]

+1. Engineering is the solution. Maybe smaller, more distributed designs allow easier containment and more backup systems... Im not a plant designer though so dont know for sure...

 

[Volvo_ST1]

What I don't get is why the excessive pressure has to be vented into the atmosphere. Can't they design a reactor in a way that excess pressure can be released into a turbine that serves no purpose other than driving a coolant pump? Then you would have a perpetuum mobile of sorts, at least as long as the core keeps producing sufficient heat.

 

[Ursae_Majoris]

I do not think that venting pressure into atmosphere is a SOP. Remember, tsunami knocked out the back diesel generators and controls (it was earlier in the thread), so no turbine would help.

 

[Volvo_ST1]

Originally Posted By: Ursae_Majoris
I do not think that venting pressure into atmosphere is a SOP. Remember, tsunami knocked out the back diesel generators and controls (it was earlier in the thread), so no turbine would help.


No, it's not a SOP, but it's necessary when the pressure gets too high. Are you saying a purely mechanical system that makes a turbine spin could not work? That turbine could also drive an electric generator.

 

[Cause4Alarm]

The nuclear incident in japan is now classified as a level 7 event, and it's believed that there has been a containment breach

 

[Volvo_ST1]

Originally Posted By: Cause4Alarm
The nuclear incident in japan is now classified as a level 7 event, and it's believed that there has been a containment breach


What's your source?

Two days ago Cesium 137 and Iodine 121 were detected in the air outside the plant. Those are direct fission products, so the news of breach of containment should not come as a surprise.

When uranium and plutonium are liberated, then there's going to be a real problem. The jet stream knows no real borders.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2

00:49 A nuclear accident in Japan on Saturday rates as less serious than both the Three Mile Island accident in 1979 and the 1986 Chernobyl nuclear disaster, Japan's nuclear safety agency said. An official at the agency said it has rated the incident at 4 under the International Nuclear and Radiological Event Scale. Three Mile Island was rated 5 while Chernobyl was rated 7 on the 1 to 7 scale, the official said.


..............and now:

Originally Posted By: Cause4Alarm
The nuclear incident in japan is now classified as a level 7 event, and it's believed that there has been a containment breach



Oh poo..............

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Cause4Alarm
The nuclear incident in japan is now classified as a level 7 event, and it's believed that there has been a containment breach

Wasn't this our last level 7 event.........

 

[eljefino]

cnn

Quote:

Authorities began pumping a mix of sea water and boron into the No. 2 reactor after Monday's explosion, as they have been doing with units 1 and 3. But the pump ran low on fuel when workers left it unattended, and the water soon burned off and exposed the reactor's fuel rods, allowing them to emit levels of heat and steam that can melt the reactor's core.

 

[meangreen01]

These types of disasters will happen. We are not a race to accept the mundane and easy way out. We explore space and put men on the moon. We lust for technology to be affordable and this internet I speak through to be available.

This is not possible without reasonably priced power.

This terrible occurence doesn't spell the end of nuclear power, just as the shuttle Challenger didn't end the shuttle program.

Wind and solar are fine sources of energy. But, until they prove they can anchor a developed countries energy demand then established sources need to.

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Where else can you get such concentrated energy production, and where else are you going to be able to find enough energy to charge your Volt overnight?



Cyanobacteria Biofuels are looking real promising.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: Volvo_ST1
What I don't get is why the excessive pressure has to be vented into the atmosphere. Can't they design a reactor in a way that excess pressure can be released into a turbine that serves no purpose other than driving a coolant pump? Then you would have a perpetuum mobile of sorts, at least as long as the core keeps producing sufficient heat.

The only source of cooling available is ocean water boiling off. No matter where you send the steam its contaminated and has to go somewhere.

 

[Volvo_ST1]

Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: Volvo_ST1
What I don't get is why the excessive pressure has to be vented into the atmosphere. Can't they design a reactor in a way that excess pressure can be released into a turbine that serves no purpose other than driving a coolant pump? Then you would have a perpetuum mobile of sorts, at least as long as the core keeps producing sufficient heat.

The only source of cooling available is ocean water boiling off. No matter where you send the steam its contaminated and has to go somewhere.


I was asking why the design did not include a system like the one I was suggesting. Such a system would be a closed system.

 

[Shannow]

Would need a means of condensing the steam back to water to return to the reactor...a condenser.

Then a pump to return the water, and another pump to circulate cooling water through the condenser.

All sized to extract the correct amount of heat from the failed reactor, in the condition that the reactor failed into.

And would require at least a rudimentary control system, powered by some sort of failsafe back-up electrical system (batteries or diesl generators), both of which seem to have been wiped out by the tsunami in this case, rendering it useless just like their existing emergency back-up systems.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Not sure how their insurance works, but much of the damage was from "flooding", not from the earthquake itself.


Industrial insurance is a bit different to home insurance.

When someone tries to exclude "acts of God", in industry, they tend to ask "define them", while the home-owner gets to eat dirt.

Industrial Insurance tends to have thresholds of damage beneath which you cover your loses. Oft they exclude the initial failure (e.g. water flowing over flood walls), then offer Business Interuption, rebuild etc...nearly always exclude radiation/nuclear risks to the public, as Govt have chosen to underwrite that risk, even for private players.

Then they underwrite that risk across the industry.

Depending on the policies, either the quake, or the tsunami aren't covered, until we all pay for the B.I. and a large part of the rebuild.

Japanese will pay for the radiation, at least as far as the edge of their property.

 

[Bluestream]

Originally Posted By: Cause4Alarm
The nuclear incident in japan is now classified as a level 7 event, and it's believed that there has been a containment breach


But look at the bright side; they had a potential Chernobyl and turned it into a mere Three Mile Island...

 

[Pablo]

http://www.prisonplanet.com/chain-reacti...ll-explode.html

 

[CourierDriver]

Just read this www.truth-out.org

 

[demarpaint]

Seems to me the engineers screwed up years ago when these nuke plants were set up. No one figured an earth quake of this magnitude, and there lies the major problem. I think the situation is worse than they are saying.