Possible reactor meltdown in Japan

[greenjp]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Nope they are the cooling towers.

The condensers are under/next to to turbines, and condense the steam using thousands of gallons per second of circulating cooling water through hundreds of miles of heat exchanger tubing, which is then cooled in the cooling towers and recirculated.

Right, good clarification. From a systems perspective the cooling towers are part of the condensers. Trying to illustrate to Volvo just how much energy, and how much associated equipment, is required to remove it.

jeff

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: greenjp
In case you didn't know, thoes big towers at a nuclear plant are the condensers. There is a huge amount of energy to remove. They are pretty impressive structures if you ever have the chance to be very near one.


Nope they are the cooling towers.

The condensers are under/next to to turbines, and condense the steam using thousands of gallons per second of circulating cooling water through hundreds of miles of heat exchanger tubing, which is then cooled in the cooling towers and recirculated.


Which is why they put nuke plants next to the ocean-- lots of efficient BTU removal. (right?)

Homer Simpson's plant is a dry one with its huge cooling towers.

 

[greenjp]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Which is why they put nuke plants next to the ocean-- lots of efficient BTU removal. (right?)

Homer Simpson's plant is a dry one with its huge cooling towers.

Right, those won't even have cooling towers. Then everybody gets upset about the extra warm water for the fishies.

 

[Shannow]

Yep, that's why lots of power stations are coastal, but they have limits on temperature into the environment...requiring thousands of HP of attemperating pumps to mix cold water with the warm water post condenser.

Inland stations evaporate 10s of millions of gallons per day, don't have the tsunami risk, but I doubt you could build one to withstand Japan's quakes.

 

[eljefino]

So these breakwaters are probably part of what temperates the heat discharge so the fish don't get shocked...

 

[Volvo_ST1]

Originally Posted By: greenjp
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Nope they are the cooling towers.

The condensers are under/next to to turbines, and condense the steam using thousands of gallons per second of circulating cooling water through hundreds of miles of heat exchanger tubing, which is then cooled in the cooling towers and recirculated.

Right, good clarification. From a systems perspective the cooling towers are part of the condensers. Trying to illustrate to Volvo just how much energy, and how much associated equipment, is required to remove it.

jeff


That's just funny. By confusing cooling towers with condensers, and by using such vague tidbits as "tremendous amount of water" and "huge amount of energy" you aren't illustrating anything.

Thanks for the effort. Besides, my question has already been answered by shannow and Al.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: eljefino

So these breakwaters are probably part of what temperates the heat discharge so the fish don't get shocked...


the angled walls are most likely the intake structure, and that little rectangular area "beneath" the reactors/turbine hall is likely the outlet structure.

 

[Volvo_ST1]

Who cleans the jellyfish out of the intake filters?

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: Volvo_ST1
Who cleans the jellyfish out of the intake filters?


Fishermen can collect them and sell them to restaurants; they taste great and are eaten regularly.

 

[Volvo_ST1]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Originally Posted By: Volvo_ST1
Who cleans the jellyfish out of the intake filters?


Fishermen can collect them and sell them to restaurants; they taste great and are eaten regularly.


You are what you eat.

 

[greenjp]

Originally Posted By: Volvo_ST1
That's just funny. By confusing cooling towers with condensers, and by using such vague tidbits as "tremendous amount of water" and "huge amount of energy" you aren't illustrating anything.

Thanks for the effort. Besides, my question has already been answered by shannow and Al.

jeez sorry. Trying to explain something to someone who knows little about a subject requires a certain amount of simplification. As I pointed out, the cooling towers are part of the condenser system. Shall we include high pressure turbines, reheaters, and low pressure turbines to the discussion for the sake of completeness?

As to your last point, your last post on this subject had been that "surely such a system could be developed."

jeff

 

[edhackett]

Here's a site recommended by a former nuclear plant engineer. He says it is a trusted source for actual information about what is happening at the plants. No spin, no agenda, just the facts as best as they are known.

http://nei.cachefly.net/newsandevents/in...in-that-region/

Ed

 

[Volvo_ST1]

Originally Posted By: greenjp
Originally Posted By: Volvo_ST1
That's just funny. By confusing cooling towers with condensers, and by using such vague tidbits as "tremendous amount of water" and "huge amount of energy" you aren't illustrating anything.

Thanks for the effort. Besides, my question has already been answered by shannow and Al.

jeez sorry. Trying to explain something to someone who knows little about a subject requires a certain amount of simplification.

Simplification to the point of missiformation?


Quote:
As I pointed out, the cooling towers are part of the condenser system.

Trying to wiggle yourself out of making a false statement? The cooling tower and condenser are part of the cooling system.


Quote:
Shall we include high pressure turbines, reheaters, and low pressure turbines to the discussion for the sake of completeness?

If you can get it all right without mistakes, knock yourself out!


Quote:
As to your last point, your last post on this subject had been that "surely such a system could be developed."


And I have been given convincing reasons why doing so would be impractical by shannow and Al, not only in this thread, but also via personal message.

 

[greenjp]

Originally Posted By: Volvo_ST1

Simplification to the point of missiformation?

Misinformation or misstatement, I guess it depends on your point of view. Yours seems to be that of snarky comment maker at this point. It's been 13 years since I interned with a nuclear power company, and yeah I made a terminology mistake. Been in a different industry since then, what can I say. If you weren't so hung up on making cute points you may be able to learn something regardless. Here's a link to a simplified schematic of the Rankine cycle - note, it doesn't show a separate cooling tower either

Quote:
If you can get it all right without mistakes, knock yourself out!

Cute! Reheaters are used to, surprise, reheat the steam after it's been through a turbine but before it gets condensed. This adds extra energy to it. Each subsequent turbine has a lower inlet pressure but is able to extract some of that added heat energy. A typical nuclear plant (or any steam plant really) has many (there's that vagueness again) reheat circuits. This gives a significant (more vagueness) boost in overall efficiency. Here's a nice graphic of a simplified steam power plant showing this stuff.


Quote:
And I have been given convincing reasons why doing so would be impractical by shannow and Al, not only in this thread, but also via personal message.

Good.

jeff

 

[OVERKILL]

The fire that was supposedly out.... Isn't. It is back.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03/15/...ing-atmosphere/

This is not under control.

 

[edhackett]

Here's a good summary of the condition of the reactors.

http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_images/pdf/ENGNEWS01_1300189582P.pdf

Ed

 

[Volvo_ST1]

Oversimplification by those in the know is one of the reasons why there is so much misinformation reported in the press.

Explaining complex systems in a for the laymen understandable manner requires a special skills.

 

[Augustus]

E=mc2

There's too much friction here, for an oil site.

 

[greenjp]

Originally Posted By: Volvo_ST1
Oversimplification by those in the know is one of the reasons why there is so much misinformation reported in the press.

Explaining complex systems in a for the laymen understandable manner requires a special skills.

No doubt. That's why the engineers and scientists who can do it get rich writing books

Though I think sometimes those in the know do explain the details, which then get muddled or confused by the typical journalist. This happens with any complex subject - engineering, scientific, social, economic, etc.

jeff

 

[Volvo_ST1]

Originally Posted By: greenjp
Originally Posted By: Volvo_ST1
Oversimplification by those in the know is one of the reasons why there is so much misinformation reported in the press.

Explaining complex systems in a for the laymen understandable manner requires a special skills.

No doubt. That's why the engineers and scientists who can do it get rich writing books

Though I think sometimes those in the know do explain the details, which then get muddled or confused by the typical journalist. This happens with any complex subject - engineering, scientific, social, economic, etc.

jeff


Sadly, we do live in a world full of blinkered specialists.