Portrait Of A Broken Automotive Industry

[doublebase]

Regarding the industry — We always face change in this industry, HOWEVER, we will be facing (what I think) will be extinction events. Events that...if the company can’t change well enough, or quick enough..they will go under. ICE vehicles are going away. The companies that make them are in for an enormous challenge. Some will survive, some won’t.

I have a friend that strongly believes that Tesla is in the drivers seat and not only will stay there, but will expand into categories/markets far beyond the automotive industry. And become something much bigger than it is right now. I’m not so sure. I think he is severely misunderstanding and doubting the automotive industry, which has seen, and dealt with many many enormous challenges and changes in the past. And pushed its way through most of it...either in ugly ways, or good ways. Either way, they have made it through most, adapted, innovated, and succeeded. I wouldn’t count out the auto industry. It’s been here a long long time.

 

[KrisZ]

You bring up good points: people really don’t have to go out and contribute to this enormous mess that is the new car world right now - they can buy used instead - or heaven forbid...fix their car and keep it. Once that happens, and happens more frequently? Game over, things will return to a much closer version of normal.

I know people that buy a new car every two years. They’re bored. They need the latest and greatest. They can’t wait to get the next one. On the flip side I see people that will never, EVER, buy a new car. Won’t happen. They can afford one, but they won’t buy one. Ever.

Interest rates were supposed to slow down inflation and the economy. It has a little bit, but until people say...I’m not spending THAT much. And then buy a used vehicle or keep their own, it’ll continue. And I‘m stunned so many people think nothing of going out there and throwing down $70,000 on a new pickup truck that they’ll never use for anything close to work related stuff. And then take a bath on it in two years in trade, and buy another. Blows my mind, but hey?? To each their own.

Agreed, we have a lot more power than we think we do. If only most would shut off their TV and social media, it would be quite obvious.


However, there are some questionable things happening. Notice that this so called “inflation” has no effect on the crude oil prices. They are somehow immune to this, but gas and especially diesel prices are through the roof.
Last go around the price per barrel reached around $180 if I remember correctly and the price at the pump was still lower than now. So things don’t exactly add up to me.



But prices for things like cars, electronics, other luxury items are driven by consumer demand and the consumer has proven they can keep spending until they have nothing left.

 

[zzyzzx]

This will be our future not too far from now:

View attachment 128648

Except in the US it will be fat people on E-bikes.

 

[Kurtatron]

In a way, sure. But large numbers of those 50s classics still running in Cuba are doing so because they were re-motored at some point with whatever Soviet-made tractor engines their owners could get ahold of. Real hodge-podges. Supposedly a lot of the best all-original examples were bought up and expatriated by wealthy European collectors years ago.

Right, I’m not averse to new tech, moreso cars that don’t have sustainability in mind long term, beyond meeting EPA regs. Put all the tech in you want, as long as it is EASY to replace and fix, not to mention, affordable.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Right, I’m not averse to new tech, moreso cars that don’t have sustainability in mind long term, beyond meeting EPA regs. Put all the tech in you want, as long as it is EASY to replace and fix, not to mention, affordable.

You mean like Tesla's OTA updates, for both fixes and upgrades?

 

[jeepman3071]

You mean like Tesla's OTA updates, for both fixes and upgrades?

I think over the air updates and fixes are great, the issue I have is knowing how that capability can be taken advantage of by money hungry governments and corporations.

 

[SeaJay]

The auto industry is going to be nothing but the same 5 or 6 basic shapes of hybrid and electric appliances that are not even close to being affordable. All modern designs will be bland and soulless save for a few niche cars. The real drivers of the world will keep their gas powered chariots no matter what. V8 only is the way for me moving forward. I do not trust or put faith in electric.

Lots of us are fine with bland and soulless as long as the vehicle does what it is supposed to and stays out of the shop except for regular maintenance and replacement of consumables.

 

[KrisZ]

Lots of us are fine with bland and soulless as long as the vehicle does what it is supposed to and stays out of the shop except for regular maintenance and replacement of consumables.

But I’m sure even you can see that having a lot of options to choose from is better for the consumer than the other way around, right?

If you take everything through your own lens, eventually you will stumble upon something that you are not “fine” with. What are you going to do when others around you will claim that they are fine with it?

 

[SeaJay]

But I’m sure even you can see that having a lot of options to choose from is better for the consumer than the other way around, right?

If you take everything through your own lens, eventually you will stumble upon something that you are not “fine” with. What are you going to do when others around you will claim that they are fine with it?

Not quite sure what you are asking. Sure, as many options as manufacturers are willing to produce is good stuff to have in the marketplace for consumers.

But my theory is that there are fewer folks these days that are "real drivers of the world" resulting in fewer products for that group to choose from. Economics at play.

 

[SC Maintenance]

25 years ago if you wanted a PC you bought a bunch of parts and assembled it, or paid someone to do it, and then hoped you can get all the drivers to work.

Now I order a computer from Dell and turn it on. But it has all kinds of spyware / malware / bloatware so I format it and install Linux.

Someone needs to develop Linux for cars.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Not quite sure what you are asking. Sure, as many options as manufacturers are willing to produce is good stuff to have in the marketplace for consumers.

But my theory is that there are fewer folks these days that are "real drivers of the world" resulting in fewer products for that group to choose from. Economics at play.

25 years ago if you wanted a PC you bought a bunch of parts and assembled it, or paid someone to do it, and then hoped you can get all the drivers to work.

Now I order a computer from Dell and turn it on. But it has all kinds of spyware / malware / bloatware so I format it and install Linux.

Someone needs to develop Linux for cars.

 

[JeffKeryk]

25 years ago if you wanted a PC you bought a bunch of parts and assembled it, or paid someone to do it, and then hoped you can get all the drivers to work.

Now I order a computer from Dell and turn it on. But it has all kinds of spyware / malware / bloatware so I format it and install Linux.

Someone needs to develop Linux for cars.

You mean like our Tesla?
All Teslas after the Original Roadster use an Ubuntu Linux based operating system for their “main” computer, properly called the Media Control Unit, as well as for at least some of their Equipment Control Units or ECUs.

The Ubuntu Linux OS is stable, versatile, and flexible. Unlike competing products from Microsoft, Apple, and IBM; Ubuntu Linux is also royalty-free, and Tesla themselves can modify it themselves to their heart’s content without paying someone else for permission to do so.

Tesla had to develop their own Linux infrastructure. They were successful enough that three legacy automakers banded together to form Automotive Grade Linux as a semi-competing product.

By the way, bloatware tends to be on the cheaper computers and cell phones. Pain in the ...

 

[JHZR2]

You mean like Tesla's OTA updates, for both fixes and upgrades?

That’s fairly narrow though. When Tesla installs a bad contractor, or sense circuit, or cell, there’s no OTA fix.

 

[CKN]

Right, I’m not averse to new tech, moreso cars that don’t have sustainability in mind long term, beyond meeting EPA regs. Put all the tech in you want, as long as it is EASY to replace and fix, not to mention, affordable.

That train has left the station.......

 

[SC Maintenance]

You mean like our Tesla?
All Teslas after the Original Roadster use an Ubuntu Linux based operating system for their “main” computer, properly called the Media Control Unit, as well as for at least some of their Equipment Control Units or ECUs.

The Ubuntu Linux OS is stable, versatile, and flexible. Unlike competing products from Microsoft, Apple, and IBM; Ubuntu Linux is also royalty-free, and Tesla themselves can modify it themselves to their heart’s content without paying someone else for permission to do so.

Tesla had to develop their own Linux infrastructure. They were successful enough that three legacy automakers banded together to form Automotive Grade Linux as a semi-competing product.

By the way, bloatware tends to be on the cheaper computers and cell phones. Pain in the ...

If your for right to repair, which I think most here would be, you by definition have to be against Tesla.

You could make the argument all manufacturers are against right to repair, but some more than others. For example Toyota says they are but still does little to stop techstream bootlegging. Nissan manuals are broadly available for download for free - including fairly recent stuff. They once sent a cease and desist letter - no doubt to satisfy their dealers, but that stopped it about a year and nothing has happened since.

Tesla has specifically fought it. They may have good reasons, but there not for me. Creating a proprietary locked version of linux - while cool - is still locked.