Portrait Of A Broken Automotive Industry

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Hello Everyone,

Interesting video attached. For those of you who are not familiar with Savage Geese, he is one of the many You Tube automotive reviewers that has supplemented what traditional car magazines have done for years. In this video he provides a summarization of observations of some of the challenges that are happening in the automotive industry. Many of his thoughts have been mentioned and discussed in detail here on BITOG by many of the subscribers.

I agree with most everything in his summary. The future industry is going to have to change to survive by comparison to it's recent past. For those of us whom have studied automotive history, we have seen this happen before. In the early decades of the industry, many of the low volume luxury marques / brands like Pierce Arrow, Duesenberg, Cord, Auburn, etc could not survive the transitioning economics of the times they thrived in. Next the fall and merger of the great independents; Kaiser Frazer, Packard, Studebaker, Hudson, Maxwell, AMC etc. Most recently the consolidation of brands, and nameplates from leading OEMs started to disappear; Mercury, Plymouth, Saturn, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Eagle, etc. ceased production for many of the same economic reasons.

It is true, that history repeats itself, and hopefully with the next transition we will see a new stronger industry emerge that will provide great product offers that we will all enjoy. Until that is complete, we may continue to experience more of the same challenges that we seen lately, as discussed in the video.

Please watch and comment as your experiences and insight can help us all learn.

 
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Pew

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The saying "the more things change, the more they stay the same" seems to fit very well. Fortunately, right now we've come full circle where a lot of smaller or independent manufactures have a chance to get their foot in the door of the EV world and not get snuffed out by the big manufactures in this industry or by the long list of regulations that stop any new players to the game.

I think he brings up a lot of great points, some points that I've thought about for a few years now - especially the relation of pricing out or "you can't afford this *huffs*" the young generation. Also liked the point of businesses consolidating multiple brands to very few choices/huge conglomerate companies; and once the choices start to dwindle down people will have no choice but to pay the exuberant prices.

Offtopic, he looks, talks, and gestures like a white version of my uncle LOL.
 
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AZjeff

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It's hard if not impossible to change the culture in something as large as Ford or GM. A good example is Kodak, I was involved in the photo business when digital was emerging and Kodak just wasn't able to overcome the entrenched way of doing things and change their product and business model and essentially vanished.
 
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I agree with his sentiment. New cars/trucks have become crazy expensive to buy and to repair. I'll be driving what I currently own into the ground before I consider buying new again.

A loaded 2022 Civic costs as much now as I paid for my loaded Impala in 2018. I like the Civic, and think they're good cars, but it's much smaller than my Impala and has a small 4 cyl vs the 305 h.p. V6 in the Impala.
 
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This will be our future not too far from now:

1669827155733.jpg
 
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AZjeff, I worked for a large at the time Fortune 500 company. We had invented a potential way of storing data optically with ten times the density of a cd. Our president called the president of Kodak thinking it might be a good fit for them. My boss and I made the trip on a windy day in March. The head of research and his cronies were there. AT the end of it, he stood up yelled at us.What business did we have coming in and even hinting that film might be dead? If they needed a new technology, Kodak was more than capable of inventing it themselves. He had security take us to the front door and put us outside without even the courtesy of calling us a cab. We had to wait along the highway until we could hail one. So much for Kodak. Our technology ended up a as an anticounterfeiting device on driver's licenses and passports from all over the world and ended up as a stand alone business.
 
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If they needed a new technology, Kodak was more than capable of inventing it themselves.

Sure, like how Kodak "invented" instant film and then got sued by Polaroid and lost. And had to give everyone who bought a Kodak instant camera some sort of refund because they could no longer make the film for them.

What an arrogant company.
 
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We're being subjected to economic repression on a massive scale. Everything you see it's just little excuses here and there. It ain't gonna get better any time soon.

Manufacturers can built simple cost effective cars. They just choose not to. They're willing participants in this sham.
If people are buying you cannot blame a corporation for trying to maximize their profits. That’s what all of them are designed to do. Much of this so called “inflation” is driven by crazy consumer spending, nothing more.
 
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If people are buying you cannot blame a corporation for trying to maximize their profits. That’s what all of them are designed to do. Much of this so called “inflation” is driven by crazy consumer spending, nothing more.
You're wrong. Your kids are starving, you need to go to work. You need to go to work, you need a car. You need to borrow money because anything is priced out of reach. It's priced out of reach just like a home is. Since you have to borrow money you have no negotiating power. You need a car, you need to borrow money, the dealer "does you a favor" and arranges the loan for whatever they're charging. It gets more complex than this to the point your world is spinning because market manipulation, inflation, and other factors are involved. This "business is designed to make money" line is old and tired, and no longer valid. Let me fix it for you: Corporations are designed to fleece. Corporations are supported by large institutional investors. Large institutional investors are very large banks. We, as regular people, have no say in what's going on. So please, next time you feel like you can vote with your dolar, don't buy a loaf of bread, eggs, milk, or a car, because you feel like the price isn't right.
 
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You're wrong. Your kids are starving, you need to go to work. You need to go to work, you need a car. You need to borrow money because anything is priced out of reach. It's priced out of reach just like a home is. Since you have to borrow money you have no negotiating power. You need a car, you need to borrow money, the dealer "does you a favor" and arranges the loan for whatever they're charging. It gets more complex than this to the point your world is spinning because market manipulation, inflation, and other factors are involved. This "business is designed to make money" line is old and tired, and no longer valid. Let me fix it for you: Corporations are designed to fleece. Corporations are supported by large institutional investors. Large institutional investors are very large banks. We, as regular people, have no say in what's going on. So please, next time you feel like you can vote with your dolar, don't buy a loaf of bread, eggs, milk, or a car, because you feel like the price isn't right.
Sounds like victim mentality to me. It’s all big and greedy corporations fault, not mine.

Notice we’re talking about vehicles, not food. Food price hikes I agree with you are hitting poor people the hardest, but let not pretend here that the same people that are struggling to put food on their table are going out and buying new vehicles because they have no other choice.

There is always a choice, if one chooses the easiest way out, and buys more then they afford, it is still their fault.

Edit:
If my kids are starving and I cannot put food on my table, the last thing I’m going to do is go out and buy a $30-40k vehicle because I need it for my, most likely dead end job. If one has that kind of thinking, they should have their head examined. These types of people will always be poor doesn’t matter if the times are good or bad.
 
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AZjeff

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This will be our future not too far from now:

View attachment 128648

Respectfully disagree. Where ever that is it's all they've ever known, it's normal. Having a hard time believing even in US cities we'll ever see any meaningful number of people riding bicycles to work or as the primary means of transportation no matter the cause. Your manipulation, suppression narrative isn't what the OP was intended to discuss. You're going to get this thread locked.
 
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Sounds like victim mentality to me. It’s all big and greedy corporations fault, not mine.

Notice we’re talking about vehicles, not food. Food price hikes I agree with you are hitting poor people the hardest, but let not pretend here that the same people that are struggling to put food on their table are going out and buying new vehicles because they have no other choice.

There is always a choice, if one chooses the easiest way out, and buys more then they afford, it is still their fault.

Edit:
If my kids are starving and I cannot put food on my table, the last thing I’m going to do is go out and buy a $30-40k vehicle because I need it for my, most likely dead end job. If one has that kind of thinking, they should have their head examined. These types of people will always be poor doesn’t matter if the times are good or bad.
Well then, I'm glad you got it all figured out then. I doubt I can add anything to improve upon what you said. Since you think you're in control, I hope you can exact some positive change upon the world. (y)

Respectfully disagree. Where ever that is it's all they've ever known, it's normal. Having a hard time believing even in US cities we'll ever see any meaningful number of people riding bicycles to work or as the primary means of transportation no matter the cause. Your manipulation, suppression narrative isn't what the OP was intended to discuss. You're going to get this thread locked.
That post was humor. Mass transportation was sabotaged a long time ago in the US so everyone has to own & operate a vehicle. I called it economic represion, not suppression. The fact that the large institutional investors pull the strings isn't even a secret as it is publicly available information, you just have to search for it.

Unfortunately what's going on with vehicles ties into everything else and is intertwined. The video doesn't exactly depict all the facts accurately and is trying to make the point that it's the consumer's fault that vehicle prices are going up because the consumer wants more "crap for free". The only thing I can fault the consumer for is for signing on the dotted line and agreeing to take out ridiculous loans for commodity vehicles. But when everyone is playing the scarcity game because it works in their favor(e.g. manufacturers, dealerships), the consumer is left with very little choice, even in the pre-owned market. And I don't know what fancy dealerships Savagegeese is talking about, because in most dealerships around here you get a seat and a pen to fill out your application, or the sales guy will do it for you. Best I had so far was coffee and popcorn at a Dodge dealer, and that's because I was there for a while as they were busy. Only bad mismanaged dealerships will overspend on luxuries they can't afford to impress broke consumers. Most know where to spend their money correctly.

Everything has been flipped upside down than it was just a couple of years ago. Anyone who looks at the basics of how to turn a profit in capitalism, scarcity is one of the building blocks. It just works and drives prices through the roof, and can even prevent the bubble from bursting. It won't stop unless people stop buying, and they will stop buying when banks will stop underwriting these ridiculous loans. Never ming cars, you guys should see the suckers that pay over $100K for used semi trucks with 500K miles on the clock.

The bottom line is that this doesn't feel like a normal economic cycle that will normalize. Like everyone else, I wish things were better.
 
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I agree with his sentiment. New cars/trucks have become crazy expensive to buy and to repair. I'll be driving what I currently own into the ground before I consider buying new again.

A loaded 2022 Civic costs as much now as I paid for my loaded Impala in 2018. I like the Civic, and think they're good cars, but it's much smaller than my Impala and has a small 4 cyl vs the 305 h.p. V6 in the Impala.
New vehicle prices are driving a lot of the middle class away from buying new. Now days it's almost a strictly upper middle, to upper class market, with everyone else having to go in debt beyond their means, or having to forgo new vehicle purchases altogether...
 
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We as consumers seem to insist on a lot of things in a new car: considerable size, technology like Apple CarPlay, lcd screens (the bigger the better), adaptive cruise control, lake keep assist, auto braking, and the list goes on and on. There were basic and inexpensive new cars available, but they were rejected by buyers. Add in government mandates for fuel economy that adds complexity and cost and it’s no wonder new cars are expensive. And, of course, these costs are also reflected in the used car market.

Basic cars are still abundant in the rest of the world so if we were willing to buy them, they’d be available.

Here’s an idea: let’s have the government start a car company to address this problem and weed out the “greed”. That’s a sure winner.
 
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