Poor man winter tires
- Thread starter M1Accord
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Even with a front wheel drive car, you want equal traction at all for corners. If you were to put snows on the front and general all seasons in the back, the back end of the car would have less traction and would lead to oversteering/sliding sideways.
It's a general rule of thumb, even for fwd vehicles, that you out tires with the most tread/traction on the back of the vehicle to mitigate oversteer or the rear end of the vehicle from sliding.
It's a general rule of thumb, even for fwd vehicles, that you out tires with the most tread/traction on the back of the vehicle to mitigate oversteer or the rear end of the vehicle from sliding.
Originally Posted By: daves87rs
Snow tires in DC?
Agreed. You don't need them. Climate here is pretty mild.
Despite everybody else still tooefing about snow tires, my original statement still stands: if on a 'very limited car budget' having a car in DC is a bad idea. Use the Metro, use cabs and/or join Zipcar instead.
Snow tires in DC?
Agreed. You don't need them. Climate here is pretty mild.
Despite everybody else still tooefing about snow tires, my original statement still stands: if on a 'very limited car budget' having a car in DC is a bad idea. Use the Metro, use cabs and/or join Zipcar instead.
Drew - That's for the average idiot that can't drive. Same reason why the suspension on most cars is set up to make oversteer almost impossible to achieve, unless RWD and at WOT. I'd much rather oversteer and take a corner sideways, or even do a controlled 180/360 than understeer into something because I couldn't stop or turn.
Originally Posted By: rslifkin
Drew - That's for the average idiot that can't drive. Same reason why the suspension on most cars is set up to make oversteer almost impossible to achieve, unless RWD and at WOT. I'd much rather oversteer and take a corner sideways, or even do a controlled 180/360 than understeer into something because I couldn't stop or turn.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Schumacher takes his street cars to his race mechanics and tells them to set his cars up for unpredictable oversteer.
There's a big difference between neutral or even oversteer-biased handling due to chassis setup and the snap oversteer that occurs when only the rear tires hydroplane or fail to dig into the snow.
Drew - That's for the average idiot that can't drive. Same reason why the suspension on most cars is set up to make oversteer almost impossible to achieve, unless RWD and at WOT. I'd much rather oversteer and take a corner sideways, or even do a controlled 180/360 than understeer into something because I couldn't stop or turn.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Schumacher takes his street cars to his race mechanics and tells them to set his cars up for unpredictable oversteer.
There's a big difference between neutral or even oversteer-biased handling due to chassis setup and the snap oversteer that occurs when only the rear tires hydroplane or fail to dig into the snow.
I like the all season tire thing. The Chicago area requires it!
It is a great compromise, and is what I personally do.
But good all season tires are not cheap.
I hope you find some good tires at an affordable price.
It is a great compromise, and is what I personally do.
But good all season tires are not cheap.
I hope you find some good tires at an affordable price.
The last two years the DC metro has had a worse winter than Buffalo has. I have friends who moved down there, and were surprised. I was too..
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Can we just NOT talking about the snow yet????? Let me enjoy the summer, please!!!! You guys are giving me nightmares...
- Vikas
What's summer ?
We only had 2-3 days in the 80's 2-3 weeks ago, since then high of the day is high 60's to low 70's and low overnight in the low 50's. Inside the house the temp is mid to high 60's, thinking to turn on the heat.
Back to the topic, Accord with a good set of all-season is more than enough for DC winter. When I was in Minnesota, the Accord with all season tires got me to anywhere I went without a hitch, even with 8-10" of snow on the ground.
Can we just NOT talking about the snow yet????? Let me enjoy the summer, please!!!! You guys are giving me nightmares...
- Vikas
What's summer ?
We only had 2-3 days in the 80's 2-3 weeks ago, since then high of the day is high 60's to low 70's and low overnight in the low 50's. Inside the house the temp is mid to high 60's, thinking to turn on the heat.
Back to the topic, Accord with a good set of all-season is more than enough for DC winter. When I was in Minnesota, the Accord with all season tires got me to anywhere I went without a hitch, even with 8-10" of snow on the ground.
Originally Posted By: JustinH
The last two years the DC metro has had a worse winter than Buffalo has. I have friends who moved down there, and were surprised. I was too..
The biggest surprise around here is how unprepared they are for snow, even relatively small amounts... both mentally and in road clearing machinery.
Never had any problems getting around here, Chicago or NW Indiana on regular all-season tires. But there's no replacement for picking your route carefully, timing it correctly or having the common sense to stay off the roads if it gets nasty outside. Had more than a few 10 mph drives home from work on the interstate.
The last two years the DC metro has had a worse winter than Buffalo has. I have friends who moved down there, and were surprised. I was too..
The biggest surprise around here is how unprepared they are for snow, even relatively small amounts... both mentally and in road clearing machinery.
Never had any problems getting around here, Chicago or NW Indiana on regular all-season tires. But there's no replacement for picking your route carefully, timing it correctly or having the common sense to stay off the roads if it gets nasty outside. Had more than a few 10 mph drives home from work on the interstate.
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
I like the all season tire thing. The Chicago area requires it!
It is a great compromise, and is what I personally do.
But good all season tires are not cheap.
I hope you find some good tires at an affordable price.
+1 one the all seasons. I commuted 150 miles per day every weekday across Chicagoland through the last 6 winters and haven't had any trouble with either the Khumo KR21s or the Michelins I have now. The Khumos were cheaper AND better than the Michelins but it's a company car and they wouldn't let me go back to Discount Tire (the [censored]!). I've been able to out-brake every other car on the road through several hairy situations.
I like the all season tire thing. The Chicago area requires it!
It is a great compromise, and is what I personally do.
But good all season tires are not cheap.
I hope you find some good tires at an affordable price.
+1 one the all seasons. I commuted 150 miles per day every weekday across Chicagoland through the last 6 winters and haven't had any trouble with either the Khumo KR21s or the Michelins I have now. The Khumos were cheaper AND better than the Michelins but it's a company car and they wouldn't let me go back to Discount Tire (the [censored]!). I've been able to out-brake every other car on the road through several hairy situations.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
There are several tires out there that are geared towards winter driving, but can be used all year long, Nokian WR for example.
The WRs may be labeled as "all season" tires, but they are actually a much better winter tire than a LOT of the dedicated winter/snow labeled tires on the market!!
I believe that they are the only all season labeled rubber to earn the "snowflake on the mountain" winter/snow/ice certification?
There are several tires out there that are geared towards winter driving, but can be used all year long, Nokian WR for example.
The WRs may be labeled as "all season" tires, but they are actually a much better winter tire than a LOT of the dedicated winter/snow labeled tires on the market!!
I believe that they are the only all season labeled rubber to earn the "snowflake on the mountain" winter/snow/ice certification?
"Poor Man's" winter tire and Nokian are mutually exclusive concepts! Nokian WRs in the small size run well above $100/tire. They are expensive.
The time to have bought those winter tires was in the spring, when they were closeouts.
If you really want a set of dedicated winters, look around at the many tire sellers on the net, and see whether anyone has something close to the section width you need in your diameter on closeout.
A narrower tire is better in the snow, incidentally, and rims for old Corollas grow on junkyard trees.
Now, winter here is a tad more severe than it is in DC, and here I find all season tires just fine.
Even the van is fine on Mich Harmony tires, while the rest ride on various all season tires.
What I'm saying is that for conditions in the DC area, good all season tires should be fine.
Have you had much experience with snow/ice conditions?
If not, be very careful until you have a good feel for the behavior of the car in treacherous conditions.
If you really want a set of dedicated winters, look around at the many tire sellers on the net, and see whether anyone has something close to the section width you need in your diameter on closeout.
A narrower tire is better in the snow, incidentally, and rims for old Corollas grow on junkyard trees.
Now, winter here is a tad more severe than it is in DC, and here I find all season tires just fine.
Even the van is fine on Mich Harmony tires, while the rest ride on various all season tires.
What I'm saying is that for conditions in the DC area, good all season tires should be fine.
Have you had much experience with snow/ice conditions?
If not, be very careful until you have a good feel for the behavior of the car in treacherous conditions.
Are you the only driver of these two cars? Make the "not nice" one the snow beater, you want to keep the salt off the nice one anyway.
ABS and traction control only help at most about 10% (the difference between static and sliding friction), miserable plus 10% is still miserable.
I get my used tires from the junkyard, the cars there are in there for some mechanical problem. If you get used tires from a tire store, they came off because someone hated them!
My junkyard tire pile is chock full of $5-10 13,14,15 inch tires, as the cars they're scrapping run them, and the new cars do not. You should be able to get something awesome in a 13 inch for the corolla for cheap just because nothing new takes the things.
BTW when it snows in DC it makes the national news. The other drivers will be cartoonish in their inadequacies. That would be a GREAT day to take a train.
ABS and traction control only help at most about 10% (the difference between static and sliding friction), miserable plus 10% is still miserable.
I get my used tires from the junkyard, the cars there are in there for some mechanical problem. If you get used tires from a tire store, they came off because someone hated them!
My junkyard tire pile is chock full of $5-10 13,14,15 inch tires, as the cars they're scrapping run them, and the new cars do not. You should be able to get something awesome in a 13 inch for the corolla for cheap just because nothing new takes the things.
BTW when it snows in DC it makes the national news. The other drivers will be cartoonish in their inadequacies. That would be a GREAT day to take a train.
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While I'll go with the recommendation for all 4 corners being snows, I ran 10's of thousands of miles with my 79 Rabbit with (back in the day) "hydrofphile" tires on the front only. The brakes were load compensated ..so you only had rear brakes when the suspension was compressed (weight in the back) and the rear end would float over unpacked snow. I could literally drive through a field of snow.
That said, there's no way to measure some others skill at such things. I ran 4 studded snows on dedicated rims on two of my mother's cars and they lasted over 5 seasons each. I could slap her cars around like a flaming fool and never lose control ...apply too much power and brake like I was on dry macadam ... I should have made a video
...otoh, my son managed to slide her last such shod vehicle into a pickup's hitch (thank you, all of you who leave these rad busters in place - yeah-yeah ..if they could drive they wouldn't have to worry about you leaving a rad buster out - save it).
That said, there's no way to measure some others skill at such things. I ran 4 studded snows on dedicated rims on two of my mother's cars and they lasted over 5 seasons each. I could slap her cars around like a flaming fool and never lose control ...apply too much power and brake like I was on dry macadam ... I should have made a video
Craigslist! I picked up a full set of almost new I-Pikes on wheels for $120. My Subi is almost sick in the snow. It's just way too fun when all the other folks are sliding everywhere.
I figured you were joking about the bungy cords... That made me spit my drink all over. I'm not even that redneck...
I figured you were joking about the bungy cords... That made me spit my drink all over. I'm not even that redneck...
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Those cable chains do sorta look like bungee cords .. and you do use bungee cord to tighten regular chains (last time I saw someone use them).
Originally Posted By: sw99
Craigslist! I picked up a full set of almost new I-Pikes on wheels for $120. My Subi is almost sick in the snow. It's just way too fun when all the other folks are sliding everywhere.
I figured you were joking about the bungy cords... That made me spit my drink all over. I'm not even that redneck...
Didn't he title the thread: "Poor man winter tires" ?
Craigslist! I picked up a full set of almost new I-Pikes on wheels for $120. My Subi is almost sick in the snow. It's just way too fun when all the other folks are sliding everywhere.
I figured you were joking about the bungy cords... That made me spit my drink all over. I'm not even that redneck...
Didn't he title the thread: "Poor man winter tires" ?
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