Poor man winter tires

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: eljefino

if everybody ran them, they'd help the public works department.

Help as in give them job security? Don't studs cause accelerated pavement wear?

Studded tires are not permitted here in IL, but I know some others states allow them during winter.

 

[eljefino]

haha, help them break up the ice.

But yeah next spring you can see the ruts they make. Studs are banned here in summer, and banned on only the front axle.

 

[Autobahn88]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: Spyder7
One real world test of mixing tire types:

"Don't I just need snow tires on the drive wheels for traction?
This myth was laid to rest when we went out on the dry test track and drove a pair of BMW 330Ci coupes, one with a full set of snow tires (Michelin Artic-Alpins) and the other with those snows on the back (the 330Ci is rear-drive) and high-performance rubber in front (Michelin Pilot XGT H4s).

This was definitely an eye-opener. Before we ran each car, we shut off the stability control system and were warned that one of the cars might end up biting us (car-guy talk for a car sliding out of control). Taking the 330 with the four snows through the course, the car felt solid and predictable. Running the 330 with the Pilots in front and Alpins in the back, the tail wagged increasingly as we zigzagged through the cones and then the car spun 180 degrees. Whoa! We drove home the point of the test with an exclamation point made in rubber marks on the track.

Mismatched tires can (and will, if pushed) adversely affect a car's handling; with the ends of the car having differing levels of grip, it is more apt to slide the tail or even spin out. Had we been driving in the snow, the rear tires probably would've had no problem propelling the car but steering and braking wouldn't fare as well — the high-performance Pilots would've washed out as the snow would easily pack their small grooves, essentially turning them into slicks. Not good on snow, slush or ice."

from:

http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/safety/articles/100811/article.html

-Spyder


These are two Euro artsy fartsy high end paycheck nobles talking ideals there. No one I have EVER KNOWN have put snows on all 4 corners on RWD. I have SEEN people recommend it.

Go tell the average 2wd pickup truck owner to put HIGH DRAG snow tires on non-drive wheels. It's not going to happen.

I'm going to apologies ahead of time. Some people are nature's way of saying that they make too much money.


When I ran snows (they were "the hot lick" hydrophyle tires at the time) my Rabbit came with 155r13 ..I upgraded the rims and tires to 175/70r13 ..WAY bigger foot print and WAY LOWER ground pressure. Floating was the norm.

I managed 70mph on glare ice on the NJ TP while there were hundreds of drivers doing 35mph all honking their horns and flashing their lights. Could I stop? Not a chance. I wouldn't have done much better with 4 snows ..and since most of you are too young, FWD was relatively NEW to mainstream America and studded tires were moving out of vogue. None of the Euro-tyres were pinned for studding.

There was a time between stone knives and bear skins and our current schools of thought. Most of those schools of thought are geared toward the lowest common denominator. Technology compensating for lack of knowledge.


Well at least in Quebec it is the law. They have to be on the car before Dec 15 and cannot come off till March 15. Anything to help a car stop shorter in ice and snow is a definate bonus. It has been proven that snow tires on all 4 corners are better than 2 snows and alot better than all seasons.

 

[Ursae_Majoris]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan


Go tell the average 2wd pickup truck owner to put HIGH DRAG snow tires on non-drive wheels. It's not going to happen.


Psst, I had a TRD Taco that I drove in 2WD most of the time, and I had 4 studded Kelly (GY) tires. All the pick up trucks and SUVs I see up here run 4 snow tires, either studded or good winter, like Blizzaks or Hakas, some good all-Season, like GY TT or Nokian WR.

Studs can be used October 1st thru May 1st up here, sometimes later (yes, we get snow storms in May), otherwise it's a big fine. Most tire shops have switched to lightweght carbide-tip-in-the aluminum-jacket type studs. They do not hurt the road as much.

 

[rcy]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan


These are two Euro artsy fartsy high end paycheck nobles talking ideals there. No one I have EVER KNOWN have put snows on all 4 corners on RWD. I have SEEN people recommend it.

Go tell the average 2wd pickup truck owner to put HIGH DRAG snow tires on non-drive wheels. It's not going to happen.


There was a time between stone knives and bear skins and our current schools of thought. Most of those schools of thought are geared toward the lowest common denominator. Technology compensating for lack of knowledge.


I have a friend with a RWD BMW 5 series - snows on all four corners. I have a friend with a 2wd Nissan pickup of some sort - snows on all four corners.

I don't see your point, but you probably don't see mine either. I have had winter tires on a FWD VW Beetle, an AWD Subaru Outback and currently on an AWD Lexus RX400h. If they stop me 5 feet shorter than an all season so I don't end up in the ditch etc., they've paid for themselves.

I don't know what the dispute is about - there are a myriad of videos showing how a winter tire outperforms an all season tire in winter conditions. They're not all some conspiracy video by rubber manufacturers.

My car insurance company even offers a discount for using winter tires.

 

[Spyder7]

Here studs are permitted (on all tires) from Nov. 1 until Mid April. Last winter they extended it until sometime in May. Studs and or good winters are the norm here. We tend to get the worst of the worst in terms of road conditions: an early morning snowfall with temps just below zero, rising to above zero and changing to rain during the day, then back to snow as the temp falls at night. Happens frequently.

Result is a snow covered mess on top of an icy road, that's about as bad as you could ask for traction wise. Tires tend to cut through the snow only to battle for traction on the ice underneath.

Studs and/or a good set of winter tires can cope. A/S drivers leave their cars parked at home. I have 4 non-studded Nordic Icetracs, with lots of tread on them, that I'll get to try for the first time this winter. Car & driver gave them a favourable review so I figure I'm covered there.

-Spyder

 

[rpn453]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Help as in give them job security? Don't studs cause accelerated pavement wear?


There would be no need for salt if the majority had studs, but they must cause accelerated pavement wear. I don't know how bad though. Many people run studs here, including most of my friends and family, and the only ruts I see are the double ruts caused by semis. I've never seen studs on a semi here. Regardless, I think the elimination of salt would be worth the extra road repairs. Salt is pretty hard on pavement too, isn't it?

 

[rjundi]

Why do winter tires turn into a fight always? The need, not need, two vs four.

I personally did have bad experience niavely using snow on FWD with summer rear.

In the end I just wait for the plows to go by and the copious salt/sand dumped on the road and drive very slow.