Police surround church in Newtown.

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Exactly will be Congress's job but do it asap.

This is a state issue at best. Congress should have no jurisdiction here.

The person that crossed state lines with a weapon that intended to do harm is dead.

What exactly do you expect Congress to do to stop crazy people from killing other people?
 
The point, in brief, is that we all have a stake in how others act, and we need to act like it. When people commit atrocities, we can't just write them off as crazy or evil and be done with them. We have to look at what we can do to operate our society in such a way that people don't fly off the handle and kill others.
 
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We have to look at what we can do to operate our society in such a way that people don't fly off the handle and kill others.

How does one "operate" a society?

"Society" is the result of the actions of individual people.

"Society" didn't kill those people, one sick and evil person did.
 
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Originally Posted By: Tempest
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Exactly will be Congress's job but do it asap.


What exactly do you expect Congress to do to stop crazy people from killing other people?


Pass a law prohibiting mental illness. Problem solved.

Ed
 
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"Society" is the result of the actions of individual people.


But it isn't.

It is a framework of shared ideals.

You "operate a society" by placing controls that curb the abuses of industry, gov't, individuals and encourage behaviors that benefit society as a whole. ADA, family leave act are examples of this.

Recently we had two individuals go out on medical (stress) leave. I'm sure if there weren't controls in place, the company would have gladly fired them and replaced them with others. Two shattered people, lost homes, damaged kids etc, and the company would not have borne the brunt of this action, however society would have by having to provide the safety net. Maybe some are comfortable with this, but why wonder when there "on the edge" individuals acting out.
 
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Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
More to come; reports coming in that the Westboro Baptist Church may be protesting the funerals...


^^^Their actions/beliefs make the BEST case yet for separation of church and state in this country.


They can call themselves a church and noone can really qualify that one way or the other, but they're just a bunch of attention seeking jerks.

Look them up on wikipedia, I won't link to it.

However, yes, I'm glad they don't have any political traction.
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Hey Congress has done it in the past and today I have heard pretty good ideas. The worse attitude we can assume is that nothing can be done. Assault weapons etc can all be banned Hey too have you seen any plastic guns for sale. ?? When they realized it could not be picked up, the plastic guns were made a no no Also mental health might be looked into to expand. Newtown had reduced their mental health budget. Both State and Govt. can attack this problem. !quote=Tempest]
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Exactly will be Congress's job but do it asap.

This is a state issue at best. Congress should have no jurisdiction here.

The person that crossed state lines with a weapon that intended to do harm is dead.

What exactly do you expect Congress to do to stop crazy people from killing other people? [/quote]
 
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
We have to look at what we can do to operate our society in such a way that people don't fly off the handle and kill others.

How does one "operate" a society?

"Society" is the result of the actions of individual people.

"Society" didn't kill those people, one sick and evil person did.


So besides the standard comment of arm everyone, what is your play? I agree with what is stated, but the lack of connectivity of individuals in a meaningful way, which may not exist or be fostered if not directed, may create a greater divide. It used to be the church. Now I cant really say. It need not be a political thing, so let's not go there. I think you wont want to anyway, given lack of trust in governments. So what's the play?

I dont think it is practical to rely upon "nature" to just magically get everyone to work together, see eye to eye based upon some optima, and support the laggards and folks with issues out of the goodness of hearts. Yet planned and directed societies seem to be wasteful and not particularly successful in and of themselves.

So what magic do you think will pull this all together?
 
And there is a LOT of political talk in here. This is going to have to get shut down and scrubbed if it doesnt stop. We dont need to get into a discussion of congress or similar topics.
 
^^^But sadly enough that IS their ONLY answer/solution, to "arm everyone".
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I guess every 5-6 year old (and ALL school aged kids) should be armed to the teeth during school, and ALL of the time, then this would not happen (or so the extremist lunatics would have us believe)??

There comes a time when 'sacred personal freedoms' overwhelm and actually NEGATE a society's ability to function.

We are at that point when many BABIES have to take bullets in order for some to have their TOTALLY unrestricted "rights".

Maybe the oft quoted "the tree of liberty must at times be watered with the blood of tyrants" should be changed to "the tree of 2nd Amendment rights must sometimes be watered with the blood of TOTALLY INNOCENT YOUNG CHILDREN"??
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Originally Posted By: dailydriver
^^^But sadly enough that IS their ONLY answer/solution, to "arm everyone".
31.gif
mad.gif


I guess every 5-6 year old (and ALL school aged kids) should be armed to the teeth during school, and ALL of the time, then this would not happen (or so the extremist lunatics would have us believe)??

There comes a time when 'sacred personal freedoms' overwhelm and actually NEGATE a society's ability to function.

We are at that point when many BABIES have to take bullets in order for some to have their TOTALLY unrestricted "rights".

Maybe the oft quoted "the tree of liberty must at times be watered with the blood of tyrants" should be changed to "the tree of 2nd Amendment rights must sometimes be watered with the blood of TOTALLY INNOCENT YOUNG CHILDREN"??
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Very well put. I could of not said it better myself. You and I may not agree on some other issues but on this you hit the nail on the head. How many more children must die before something is done.
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At the end of the day, the mother was not responsible enough because she allowed a troubled young man (of whom they are many) access to 3 firearms.

While I would agree that he might have gotten them some other way, there is a responsibility on anyone who owns potentially lethal property to secure them.

If you own a car, you secure it against your own kids.

If you store fuel or gas, you need to make sure it's secure.

And in cases where people's cannot be trusted, there are agencies, funded by licensing, to help protect the innocent. Vehicles have safety checks to protect others on the road.

In my opinion, too many gun owners have proven themselves to be irresponsible.

As part of steps to ensure guns are not easily available, gun license fees need to increase to whatever level they need to to ensure there is sufficient checking and auditing, including random inspection to ensure gun storage is secure and that inventory is accounted for.

With rights comes responsibilities. I have a right to drive a car but I have a responsibility to be insured. My rates are higher because of all the dangerous drivers out there. That's my tough luck and I'd like to see stricter enforcement to keep myself and my family safer. If we need someone else to enforce responsibility than that's a small price to pay.

The same should apply to firearms.
 
Originally Posted By: FoxS
In my opinion, too many gun owners have proven themselves to be irresponsible.



THis is my issue. The desire of everyone to have their rights, when many arent capable of the responsibilities associated with exercise of those rights.

200k guns stolen per year in the USA is just disgusting. THe old cliche only criminals will have guns comment might be true, but the gun owners are the enablers, and therefore are their own worst enemies.

Whether it was easy theft or what, the mother was an enabler here. So long as gun owners are enablers to the criminals having guns, they will always get a bad rap, and the knee jerk populus wil keep attacking...
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
We have to look at what we can do to operate our society in such a way that people don't fly off the handle and kill others.


That is impossible.
 
If 200k guns are stolen from irresponsible owners and this enables criminals, how can the "attacking" populous be characterized as "knee jerking"

Where there's smoke there's fire and 200k stolen guns a year is plenty smoke
 
So no one cared when this Govt gave several thousands of guns to violent Mexican drug cartels, leading to hundreds of dead in Mexico and a law enforcement officer here. But now everyone is fine with the same Govt taking away our guns? Unbelievable. We had an assault weapons ban in place for 10 years. The FBI has pages and pages of statistics on it proving it did nothing to curb violent crime. Period. This is nothing more than a huge power grab by Govt exploiting a horrible tragedy to push their agenda of disarming us all.
 
Since you hold the notion that you need to defend yourself against the govt with guns, please outline the scenario you are planning for and how long you could hold out for and how if they got really serious about it eg sending in seals with night vision, using bunker busting guided missiles.

Frankly, if you're worried about the need to defend yourself from the govt, I think you should plan on leaving the country.
 
^^^^^

I interpreted Huckabees comments as being in the same vein as WBC
 
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