Photos of the Set of Michelin Defender LTX M/S-2 I Just Removed

Joined
Jul 8, 2012
Messages
4,750
Location
Nashville, TN via Memphis
They were on for 43,000 miles. The last set was the Michelin LTX M/S-2, which lasted 69,000 miles.

I bought a set of the Defender LTX, because, they stopped making the LTX M/S-2 in this size (P265/75-16) a few years ago, replacing it with this.

I was suspicious, but went ahead and bought them.

Obviously the 2 that are at 4/32" could go further, but I’ve found that the thinner I run tires, the more susceptible they are to punctures, and I didn’t want to end up having to replace just one tire, so I went ahead and bought a new set of Yokohama Geolandar.

Since I didn’t replace with another set of Michelin, they wouldn’t offer any cash. But they offered 25% off a new set if I purchase within a year (Michelin, Uniroyal, BFG).
362691BE-FEF2-4ABB-9834-C0DFDBF044E1.jpeg
E2F625D9-7658-4613-BCC5-681650F3F26F.jpeg
2EA118BE-41FA-4285-B410-F79792F93F91.jpeg
FD3E9E2D-121A-465B-A4F9-CEE2E9F18514.jpeg

7224D1F1-7920-4CE7-96A9-17830778E295.jpeg
 

Attachments

  • 1DE0AE2D-D187-4DA5-B7AD-9DEEFA84CEBB.jpeg
    1DE0AE2D-D187-4DA5-B7AD-9DEEFA84CEBB.jpeg
    147.6 KB · Views: 75
Last edited:

john_pifer

Thread starter
Joined
Jul 8, 2012
Messages
4,750
Location
Nashville, TN via Memphis
Realized I must have accidentally double-attached one of the photos. Oh well, you get the picture. A couple of them were down to around 4/32”, 1 was at 3/32”, and the worst one was around 2/32”.
 

john_pifer

Thread starter
Joined
Jul 8, 2012
Messages
4,750
Location
Nashville, TN via Memphis
Just me or does the last picture in particular look like they were run over inflated for quite some time? And I don't mean just over the placard pressure... driving a high payload pickup hauling air can do the same thing...
Yes, I did run them a few lbs high for a while. It calls for 29 front, 32 psi rear, and I know I ran them around 35 psi for a while.

I also do a lot of highway miles. My commute is 36 miles round trip, and about 32 of that is expressway
 

OVERKILL

$100 Site Donor 2021
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
53,017
Location
Ontario, Canada
Yes, I did run them a few lbs high for a while. It calls for 29 front, 32 psi rear, and I know I ran them around 35 psi for a while.

I also do a lot of highway miles. My commute is 36 miles round trip, and about 32 of that is expressway
Open diff? Just going by that one tire, which I assume is the right rear that has significantly more wear (and more wear in the centre) than the others.
 

john_pifer

Thread starter
Joined
Jul 8, 2012
Messages
4,750
Location
Nashville, TN via Memphis
Open diff? Just going by that one tire, which I assume is the right rear that has significantly more wear (and more wear in the centre) than the others.
Yes, it’s an open diff. I wondered that myself - it did get that wear mostly while mounted on the back. And I think it was on the back right side.
 
Joined
Sep 5, 2021
Messages
1,248
Can you keep us updated if you get warranty reimbursement? I'm curious if they will pay you and how the process works out.
 
Joined
Oct 23, 2017
Messages
935
Location
VA
Why is it that the right side gets worn more with an open diff? This is the first time I’ve heard of that, but it seems to have been true in my case.
Because it is the only tire that applies force to the pavement, all the other tires just roll along.

...and your burnouts don't help
 
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Messages
4,259
Location
Somewhere in the US
Just me or does the last picture in particular look like they were run over inflated for quite some time? And I don't mean just over the placard pressure... driving a high payload pickup hauling air can do the same thing...
I saw that, too, but my conclusion was that this was a rear tire.
Can you keep us updated if you get warranty reimbursement? I'm curious if they will pay you and how the process works out.
I'll bet that there won't be any consideration. Many tire manufacturers would consider this a premature removal as not all the tires are at 2/32nds.
 

Astro14

$100 Site Donor
Staff member
Joined
Oct 10, 2010
Messages
16,151
Location
Virginia Beach
I would’ve replaced those a hair sooner. Once a tire gets below 4/32”, the rain performance starts to degrade. I don’t care about extracting every mile out of a warranty - I care about tire performance.

Couple a 2/32” tire tread depth with the rear of a lightly loaded pickup in heavy rain and you’ve got a recipe for loss of control. No thanks.

Snow performance degrades below 6/32”, but you likely don’t see much snow.

Perhaps I missed it, but what was your rotation schedule and pattern?

I‘ve got the same Michelins on my Tundra, and they’re very good tires. The fronts seem to get outside shoulder wear and a touch of feathering, while the rears look to be wearing smoothly. I rotate every 5,000 miles and with that, the wear is consistent across the set.
 
Joined
Apr 19, 2014
Messages
2,183
Location
WV
I would’ve replaced those a hair sooner. Once a tire gets below 4/32”, the rain performance starts to degrade. I don’t care about extracting every mile out of a warranty - I care about tire performance.

Couple a 2/32” tire tread depth with the rear of a lightly loaded pickup in heavy rain and you’ve got a recipe for loss of control. No thanks.

Snow performance degrades below 6/32”, but you likely don’t see much snow.

Perhaps I missed it, but what was your rotation schedule and pattern?

I‘ve got the same Michelins on my Tundra, and they’re very good tires. The fronts seem to get outside shoulder wear and a touch of feathering, while the rears look to be wearing smoothly. I rotate every 5,000 miles and with that, the wear is consistent across the set.
Those tires are designed to work well on wet roads even when worn down. Those tires probably had 10k more miles with his driving conditions.
 
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
1,989
Location
Northern Utah
I no longer get concerned when a set of tires wears out well before the advertised tread life. If you buy your tires from a reputable tire store, such as Discount Tire, they will warrant the lost tire life towards a new set of tires. With that in mind, who cares of a 70k mile tire wears out at 45k miles? I get to ride on a quality tire. When it wears out, I get a nice discount on the next set. Life is good.
 

OVERKILL

$100 Site Donor 2021
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
53,017
Location
Ontario, Canada
Why is it that the right side gets worn more with an open diff? This is the first time I’ve heard of that, but it seems to have been true in my case.
It's the side that's typically receiving power in an open diff in a RWD vehicle, as @thastinger noted. This is because it is on the ring gear side of the carrier. Similarly, with 4WD, the left front is the same way, being on the ring gear side and tending to be the wheel that gets power. Of course if that wheel has more traction, the power will shift to the other side, as an open diff always wants to send power to the wheel with the least amount of traction.

This is where the old "posi test" (limited slip test) would come into play.

Take a hold of the driveshaft with the car in the air and rotate in the direction it turns when the vehicle is going forward. The right-rear tire, with an open diff, will go forward, the left rear will spin the opposite direction. Grab a hold of the right rear tire, rotate it CW (forward), the left rear will go in reverse (CW on that side). Go to the left side, rotate the tire CCW (forward), the right-rear will now go in reverse (CCW on its side). This is why, in situation with mostly equal traction, the natural bias is for power to be sent through the right rear; the carrier side wheel, as that's the side with the spider gear that wants to go the same direction as the ring rear.

With limited-slip (of the clutched variety) there are stacks of friction disks on either side of the carrier behind the spider gears with a spring pushing the spider gears into them. In this situation, turning the driveshaft forward will result in both wheels spinning the same direction because the spider gears are "locked' together by the clutches; they are not free to spin. Grab a hold of either of the wheels and spin them "forward", the other wheel goes the same direction. With this setup, it takes force to break the friction bond between left and right, which is why a "tight" limited slip can chatter going around corners as the clutches slip. Friction modifier is added to reduce the friction, making the slipping easier and eliminating chatter. Contrarily, drag racers with cars that are still street driven will add another friction and/or a heavier spring to make it require significantly more force to slip. This is also why a truck with a limited slip is so eager to step out if the road is crowned, as both wheels naturally want to go to the same speed all the time and if neither have traction, it will slide the direction the crown wants to take it.

An automatic locker is similar, except that typically the unit functions as an open diff most of the time until traction is lost and then both shafts are locked together. An electronic locker is typically open as well, but requires power (usually a magnet or electric motor arrangement) to lock the wheels together. My SRT has a complex electronic locking rear differential that's also limited slip, so not only does it naturally want both wheels to go forward, if there is a torque imbalance that overwhelms the clutches, the unit will, electronically, mechanically couple the shafts together for maximum traction.

It likely operates similar to this Porsche unit:
1645374545092.jpg


Another type is the Torsen torque vectoring arrangement, which works opposite an open differential, sending power to the wheel with the most traction. These tend to avoid the "stepping out" effect you get with limited slip and lockers.
 
Joined
Oct 7, 2012
Messages
4,080
Location
Northern Ontario, Canada
Why is it that the right side gets worn more with an open diff? This is the first time I’ve heard of that, but it seems to have been true in my case.
I see this kind of wear all the time on trucks that I appraise for trade-in. I go to the PS rear tire 1st for measurements, it's usually worn the most.
When drivers punch it at intersections, while turning rights, it unloads the PS rear and the tire spins, which means extra wear.
 

john_pifer

Thread starter
Joined
Jul 8, 2012
Messages
4,750
Location
Nashville, TN via Memphis
Can you keep us updated if you get warranty reimbursement? I'm curious if they will pay you and how the process works out.
Michelin warranty is only valid when you replace with another Michelin, Uniroyal, or BFG. Since I bought a set of Yokohama in advance, I wasn't eligible, but they offered 25% off a set of tires from one of those brands if I buy within a year.

I am curious if that discount would apply in addition to the $70 mail-in rebate that's being offered right now (listed on The Tire Rack site; not sure if the rebate is from Tire Rack, or from BFG). If so, that would be a good deal on a set of BFG K02s or Trail Terrains.

That promotion is listed to end on Feb 23, however.
 
Top