So I got the Michelin Defender 2

[Looger]

Was set on the Pirelli P7 AS Plus 3 for my 2019 Accord (225/50/17) and my Wife's CRV.
But I was also interested in the CrossClimate 2.

I stopped at the Discount Tire and talked with the guy that sold me the Continental PureContact LS. I liked the tires, but they wore fast, and became noisy (however, I think my car has a noisy rotating assembly, but that is a different story).

Anyway, I like the guy, he seems honest and knowledgeable. I old him what I was interested in (quiet tires, with decent all season performance), and without missing a beat he recommended the Defender for our Hondas.
He said the Pirelli were harder tires, and the CC2 was loud.

I was surprised by his recommendation. But since we've had defenders on some other cars, and they really perform nicely, I went ahead and had the tires installed.

The tires are absolutely fantastic on my wife's CRV. They transformed the car. It's much more quiet and seems to ride better compared to the Goodyear assurance tires.

My car is a different story. The tires have a refined feel. They generally handle well and ride pretty smooth.
We drove through some huge downpours (I was scaring my son by intentionally hitting big puddles to test hydroplaning) and the tires handled just fine, despite the mediocre wet rating.

But at the same time they are harsh. I can feel every crack in the road, Even the small hairline cracks.
Before anyone asks, yes, I have the pressure set at 32 psi per the door placard).

The other thing is that they have a lot of tread squirm. At speed on the highway, the car wanders. Is really unnerving.
The alignment is just fine as I just had it done last year and I doubt there is an issue because the Continental tires were wearing just fine.
Also, I recall when the Continentals were put on, I thought that there was a problem with my alignment because they pretty much did the same thing until they broke in.
I remember having to put in a lot of steering input on crown roads to keep it tracking straight.

I'm on the fence as far as keeping the tires. I'm pretty sure they'll settle down, as far as the wandering goes. But I'm really worried about the harsh ride.
I'm guessing that the rubber is so thick (10/32) that the tires just aren't able to give as much. I'm sure the rubber is on the firmer side as well.
My car has a firm ride as it is and I don't want it to ride any harsher.

I do like the idea of the CrossClimate from a safety and overall performance perspective, but I've heard way too many people say that they are loud.
(Edited to add: a lot of people say they are firm tires.)
Yet confusingly, some people say they're super quiet.

Now the question is: Do I wait a little bit to see if the tires settle in, or do I just go ahead and get different tires?
Has anyone ever had harsh riding tires settle in overtime?

Bob

 

[MParr]

Are they the same speed rating and load rating as the OE tires?

 

[JimPghPA]

My sister put a new set ( all 4) of cross climate 2 (not the suv version) on her 2018 Honda CRV EXL and we took it up to Marine State Park on Route 79 right after that (from Pittsburgh PA., about 60 miles each way). She let me drive it up there and I can tell you that they are quiet on that vehicle.

 

[K20FA5]

I just put 4 on my wife’s Caddy Monday. I was also really afraid they’d be loud, they just look loud! They’re surprisingly quiet. The OEM Michelins were at 5/32” and starting to hydroplane, plus we’re supposed to have an El Niño winter and I didn’t want her driving on those tires. They’re quieter than the OEM Michelins I pulled off. They also handle in the hot and dry very, (100+ with no rain) very well. Even she noticed them driving better, and she doesn’t notice anything

There is also a 60 day guarantee on them from Michelin, that’s what talked me into trying them. I’m glad so far that I did!

 

[totegoat]

Good reporting, I haven't decided which tires to buy.

 

[WobblyElvis]

I put some on my Malibu. Quiet, smooth ride and wore well, but gas mileage took a noticeable hit.

 

[MParr]

I did some checking. Your Honda comes with 94V tires. The Michelin Defender 2 tires are 98H. So yes, your ride is going to be harsher and remain so. The number 98 is the load index for the Michelin. H is the speed rating for the Michelin. 98 is larger than 94. That means the Michelin can handle more weight.

 

[Rand]

It is a hard choice..
return immediately so you can (
or wait 500miles for them to break in.

The "squirmyness" should fade somewhat but the feel every crack in the road probably wont.
I'd go back and have them order you in a set of CC2s or the pirelli and drive it for a couple more days (setup appointment) that way you are covered either way.


I have the Pirelli P7 AS Plus 2? 3? on a 2013 equinox I drive infrequently.. they have been quiet and without drama.. ok in the winter too in my limited driving.
decent steering feel and handling for a standard all season on a Equinox.

 

[JimPghPA]

I could be wrong about this but my understanding is that they tried to make a version of the Cross climate 2 for the European countries and in order to qualify for those countries they had to reduce the tread depth. Apparently even after doing that they were not accepted it so they were left with the molds that are considerable investment. So what they did is they relabeled them as the cross climate 2 SUV. Basically it's the same Tire as a cross climate too but less tread depth so you can expect to get less life out of them. I told my sister to be sure to get only the regular cross climate 2, and I put that in writing for her since she is not well versed in automobile tires to say the least. She saved the paper and use that when she purchased the tires.

I've told her and her husband that it doesn't matter how many bells and whistles and anti-skid and traction control systems your vehicle has if the tires are not up to the task you're going to have problems. It's where the rubber meets the road did it counts the most and tires or what that is all about.

They have a granddaughter who is at college fairly far away towards the middle of the state and also that is the same direction that their daughter lives in, and it's highly likely that they will be traveling in winter weather and that part of Pennsylvania is notorious for heavy snow in the winter time. So I'm glad that she listened and went with the cross climate 2 because she's going to have something going for her during the winter when she and her husband take trips.

 

[meep]

we have 2 sets of CC2s. One on a 2015 crv and one on a 2014 Lexus GS. We recently sold the GS. When people say these are loud tires, yes, they are indeed louder than the quietest tire out there. BUT, the are, in my opinion still by far quieter than the average. I don’t like loud tires at all.

the CRV is by nature noisy. If these tires were bad, we would haaaate them. They are no louder than any of the previous tires it had … dueler LE2 and a set of BFG traction T/A.

I have had many sets of tires which made more noise than the CC2. I highly recommend them. Their rain traction is superb.

 

[UG_Passat]

I could be wrong about this but my understanding is that they tried to make a version of the Cross climate 2 for the European countries and in order to qualify for those countries they had to reduce the tread depth. Apparently even after doing that they were not accepted it so they were left with the molds that are considerable investment. So what they did is they relabeled them as the cross climate 2 SUV. Basically it's the same Tire as a cross climate too but less tread depth so you can expect to get less life out of them. I told my sister to be sure to get only the regular cross climate 2, and I put that in writing for her since she is not well versed in automobile tires to say the least. She saved the paper and use that when she purchased the tires.

I've told her and her husband that it doesn't matter how many bells and whistles and anti-skid and traction control systems your vehicle has if the tires are not up to the task you're going to have problems. It's where the rubber meets the road did it counts the most and tires or what that is all about.

They have a granddaughter who is at college fairly far away towards the middle of the state and also that is the same direction that their daughter lives in, and it's highly likely that they will be traveling in winter weather and that part of Pennsylvania is notorious for heavy snow in the winter time. So I'm glad that she listened and went with the cross climate 2 because she's going to have something going for her during the winter when she and her husband take trips.

The European CrossClimate 2 is already available, but the tread is different as well as the compound. You can see the 3-dots on the shoulder blocks, which is probably an alignment marker,the center sipes are shaped, and the end of the shoulder blocks are shaped differently differently than the US version of the CrossClimate 2.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

My sister put the CC2 on her RAV4 Hybrid. She did notice a hit in MPG but she also said she is ok with that since she has a lot better grip and less noise than whatever was on it new.

She just did a round trip from NY to TN and commented how nice it was for road noise and when it poured. She did experience one snow and was very happy with them.

I have the Pirelli P7 AS+2 on my Accord and Pirelli Scorpion Verde AS+2 on my daughters CRV. Both are a lot quieter than previous tires and ride great (GY Weatherready and Defender T&H). Bought the Pirelli’s because of noise ratings and reviews. I would not hesitate based on them to get the Pirelli AS3 but I run full winters on my vehicles. CC2 or a Nokian all weather would probably be my choice if I was doing a one tire.

 

[Looger]

I knew you guys would come through.

Good point on the load rating. My Continental tires were also rated 98v, so I'm surprised that they weren't particularly harsh.

On a bit of a side note, while I was trying to chase down a noise (that my car still has), the dealership said the noise might be coming from my "hard rubber" tires. They suggested a softer tire.
This was a weird statement because I didn't get the sense that the pure contact tires were particularly hard, But maybe they were referring to the 98 load rating.

The Honda Accord is indeed a loud car, kind of like a tin can, it lets in a lot of road noise.
I drive 90 minutes round trip for work, and we tend to use my car for trips, so I can't tolerate noisy tires.

The Defenders are pretty quiet. There is a distinct white noise, but it's very tolerable. I was able to have a conversation with my son while on the highway without raising my voice.

The Pirelli tires seem like a really nice compromise: reported to be quiet and to provide a really nice ride, while still maintaining acceptable, wet and snow performance.
But I was thrown when the presumably knowledgeable tire guy (I think he is the manager, but I've also seen him servicing cars) didn't recommend them, or the cross climate.
I respected his opinion because he sees many thousands of tires going on to different cars, and hears the complaints or compliments.
He didn't seem to be pushing anyone tire or brand.

I really appreciate all the feedback from everyone. I've got some thinking to do!

Bob

 

[skyactiv]

Wet traction and hydroplaning are two different things

 

[CapriRacer]

I could be wrong about this but my understanding is that they tried to make a version of the Cross climate 2 for the European countries and in order to qualify for those countries they had to reduce the tread depth. Apparently even after doing that they were not accepted it so they were left with the molds that are considerable investment. So what they did is they relabeled them as the cross climate 2 SUV.

Tire Rack says the CC2 SUV comes in only one size and is OE on a Maserati. That means that Maserati wrote the specs, and I'll bet in order to make the rolling resistance requirement, the tread depth was reduced.

What's also interesting is that the CC SUV is only 3 sizes and all Mercedes OE. They also have reduced tread depth!

So it looks like if Michelin makes a version of the CC for OEM's, they label it SUV.

BTW, Tire Rack lists 2 versions of the CC: the Agilis Cross Country - which looks like a conventional All Season tire but comes only in LT sizes - and a CC2, which is the V tread pattern and a more conventional tread depth (10/32nds) and comes in ... Well, I stopped counting at 60 sizes.

 

[Looger]

Wet traction and hydroplaning are two different things

Yeah, I was writing fast, and lumped my drive through a small pond in with the wet traction info.
I did jump on the brakes and accelerator a couple of times, and wasn't able to elicit any poor behavior.

Bob

 

[meep]

I concur with the want for quiet tires. Bridgestone has an all season which both of my kids had, and they both liked them and said they are quiet. The continental DWSA06+ may also be a very formidable contender there as well. I’d look at the DWS sooner, higher on the list.

 

[edyvw]

I concur with the want for quiet tires. Bridgestone has an all season which both of my kids had, and they both liked them and said they are quiet. The continental DWSA06+ may also be a very formidable contender there as well. I’d look at the DWS sooner, higher on the list.

DWS06+ is a ridiculously comfortable tire. I have them now in 225/40R18. They are actually more comfortable in that size than Yokohama Advan Apex V601 in 225/45 R17 that I use on track. I switch tires all the time between street and track and it is a noticeable difference.
The downside is that steering feedback is a bit vague.

 

[Looger]

I was reading and watching some reviews, and the CC2 is, of course, mostly praised.
I was trying to focus on mentions of noise and ride.
People most often focus on weather handling, so the other qualities are not as well covered.

I get the sense that the tires seem to ride firmly (they are 98v), but it is hard to tease out relevant info. Some reviews don't mention the car, rim, or tire specs, or the quality of their roads (SE Michigan roads are notoriously bad).

I did search the Accord (and other Honda) forums, and found many good reviews, but also some mentions of harsh ride. Some for the 17 rim, some for the 19.

I wasn't concerned by the 98v ratings for the Defender 2 because the Pure Contacts weren't harsh.

Weird side note: I looked at my receipt for the Defenders to figure out how many miles I've driven. DT put the wrong mileage on it.
They reported 38,000 miles, but the car has 60,000.
Oops.

This is a tough call because I can't get a great sense of the qualities I prefer on my car in my geographic area.
I've read reviews claiming "they are super smooth, quiet, ride great!", then notice they are on a car that is super quiet with a comfortable ride.

After reading a ton of reviews, I think the CC2:
-Handles all seasons well, especially snow and wet
-Wears well
-Maintains traction as it wears (impressive)
-Is a bit louder, especially in some situations
-Has a firm ride (which some describe as harsh)
-Will likely result in a loss of MPG.

The Defenders lost about 4mpg (35.5 to 31.5), but are now nearly back to normal.

Bob

 

[meep]

@Looger, yes I think your summation is good.

I had them in 2 different sizes. Most of those characteristics remained the same. The noise character was a little different. Both transmitted more road rumble than I expected. The SUV sized tire on the CRV communicated more of that than the Lexus did, which was a smaller and lower profile tire. Note that while lexuses are known to be quiet, mine was a GS which was more sport oriented and was not as quiet as others. The CRV almost has a little bit of that “volleyball sproinggg” in its CC2s. Only folks really paying attention would notice.

Not mentioned here is the one drawback I noticed of CC2s, and tire rack tests confirm this - with all the gains in forward and rain traction, sideways traction is reduced. For a regular driver, you’ll never notice. On a rear wheel drive car in a spritely turn, the rear end will step out every time, gently and with plenty of warning. My wife has no idea, and on most of my drive it wouldn’t matter. I *liked* it because it gave me another element of control, which was to goose it and bring the back around, which was easy enough to simply include in my driving style on tight corners in traffic. …and I’ll mention, with no discernible wear problems. BUT, if you are a canyon carver with a heavy-nose FWD, you might not like this much.

Again, if the noise is a consideration, I highly suggest you consider the Continental DWS06+. If @edyvw recommends them, that’s a double-whammy - he is quite knowledgable and meticulous with his cars.