So I got the Michelin Defender 2

[edyvw]

I was reading and watching some reviews, and the CC2 is, of course, mostly praised.
I was trying to focus on mentions of noise and ride.
People most often focus on weather handling, so the other qualities are not as well covered.

I get the sense that the tires seem to ride firmly (they are 98v), but it is hard to tease out relevant info. Some reviews don't mention the car, rim, or tire specs, or the quality of their roads (SE Michigan roads are notoriously bad).

I did search the Accord (and other Honda) forums, and found many good reviews, but also some mentions of harsh ride. Some for the 17 rim, some for the 19.

I wasn't concerned by the 98v ratings for the Defender 2 because the Pure Contacts weren't harsh.

Weird side note: I looked at my receipt for the Defenders to figure out how many miles I've driven. DT put the wrong mileage on it.
They reported 38,000 miles, but the car has 60,000.
Oops.

This is a tough call because I can't get a great sense of the qualities I prefer on my car in my geographic area.
I've read reviews claiming "they are super smooth, quiet, ride great!", then notice they are on a car that is super quiet with a comfortable ride.

After reading a ton of reviews, I think the CC2:
-Handles all seasons well, especially snow and wet
-Wears well
-Maintains traction as it wears (impressive)
-Is a bit louder, especially in some situations
-Has a firm ride (which some describe as harsh)
-Will likely result in a loss of MPG.

The Defenders lost about 4mpg (35.5 to 31.5), but are now nearly back to normal.

Bob

Like with any "ALL" tire, it is compromise.
CC2 is a well-liked tire. I had an opportunity to drive numerous vehicles with it, and they felt steering like any other Michelin. I really did not pay attention to noise, which means it was not excessive. But, it is a compromise tire. If you want more snow performance, it will have to give up certain things in order to achieve better snow performance. I personally would never get it as I always drive on snow tires, and if a tire is good in snow, it will be less capable in dry compared to tires that do not perform well in snow. Point is, you will have to live with those compromises.
As with any Michelin, CC2 will be a smooth tire. It will retain initial performance longest etc. You are buying high-quality products, but do not expect it to be quite as summer tire or have snow performance as winter tire.

 

[SatinSilver]

I was reading and watching some reviews, and the CC2 is, of course, mostly praised.
I was trying to focus on mentions of noise and ride.
People most often focus on weather handling, so the other qualities are not as well covered.

I get the sense that the tires seem to ride firmly (they are 98v), but it is hard to tease out relevant info. Some reviews don't mention the car, rim, or tire specs, or the quality of their roads (SE Michigan roads are notoriously bad).

I did search the Accord (and other Honda) forums, and found many good reviews, but also some mentions of harsh ride. Some for the 17 rim, some for the 19.

I wasn't concerned by the 98v ratings for the Defender 2 because the Pure Contacts weren't harsh.

Weird side note: I looked at my receipt for the Defenders to figure out how many miles I've driven. DT put the wrong mileage on it.
They reported 38,000 miles, but the car has 60,000.
Oops.

This is a tough call because I can't get a great sense of the qualities I prefer on my car in my geographic area.
I've read reviews claiming "they are super smooth, quiet, ride great!", then notice they are on a car that is super quiet with a comfortable ride.

After reading a ton of reviews, I think the CC2:
-Handles all seasons well, especially snow and wet
-Wears well
-Maintains traction as it wears (impressive)
-Is a bit louder, especially in some situations
-Has a firm ride (which some describe as harsh)
-Will likely result in a loss of MPG.

The Defenders lost about 4mpg (35.5 to 31.5), but are now nearly back to normal.

Bob

Good catch on the Mileage discrepancy. Hopefully it was an honest mistake. Because if you come back in they can say you put on an extra 22k miles.

 

[Wheel366]

Like with any "ALL" tire, it is compromise.
CC2 is a well-liked tire. I had an opportunity to drive numerous vehicles with it, and they felt steering like any other Michelin. I really did not pay attention to noise, which means it was not excessive. But, it is a compromise tire. If you want more snow performance, it will have to give up certain things in order to achieve better snow performance. I personally would never get it as I always drive on snow tires, and if a tire is good in snow, it will be less capable in dry compared to tires that do not perform well in snow. Point is, you will have to live with those compromises.
As with any Michelin, CC2 will be a smooth tire. It will retain initial performance longest etc. You are buying high-quality products, but do not expect it to be quite as summer tire or have snow performance as winter tire.

My reasoning for getting this tire on 2 cars was for the additional snow traction knowing they were never going to perform like an AS 4. On the CR-V, it made no sense getting the AS 4 since it is NOT a performance car. My 18 Legacy Sport isn't really a performance car either but it is more so than the CR-V. I toyed with the idea of getting the AS 4 but since we drive the kids in both cars, I wanted the better snow traction rather than all out performance. As you said, it is a compromise. Had to make a choice and my choice was better snow traction.

My 19 Impreza Sport on the other hand is a different story. Still not a performance car but I don't drive the kids in that car. It is usually just me so I'll sacrifice the snow performance for a more performance oriented tire and if snow is that bad, I'll just take one of the other cars.

And if I REALLY want performance, I'll drive my B5 S4. Unfortunately, it needs a LOT of work. Never had any AS tire on it though. Has PS2s on there now which are god knows how old. Maybe 13 - 14 years old. Learned the hard way that non AS tires and AWD don't work as well as I thought it would. But I was 23 when I learned that lesson; many many many years ago!

 

[edyvw]

My reasoning for getting this tire on 2 cars was for the additional snow traction knowing they were never going to perform like an AS 4. On the CR-V, it made no sense getting the AS 4 since it is NOT a performance car. My 18 Legacy Sport isn't really a performance car either but it is more so than the CR-V. I toyed with the idea of getting the AS 4 but since we drive the kids in both cars, I wanted the better snow traction rather than all out performance. As you said, it is a compromise. Had to make a choice and my choice was better snow traction.

My 19 Impreza Sport on the other hand is a different story. Still not a performance car but I don't drive the kids in that car. It is usually just me so I'll sacrifice the snow performance for a more performance oriented tire and if snow is that bad, I'll just take one of the other cars.

And if I REALLY want performance, I'll drive my B5 S4. Unfortunately, it needs a LOT of work. Never had any AS tire on it though. Has PS2s on there now which are god knows how old. Maybe 13 - 14 years old. Learned the hard way that non AS tires and AWD don't work as well as I thought it would. But I was 23 when I learned that lesson; many many many years ago!

It is all about individual needs. I would run on a BMW Michelin PS4S, but Colorado in the morning is already in 40's, and evenings get cold fast. So, I need something that has good handling capabilities in the cold too, and performance AS tires like DWS06, or Michelin Pilot 3+ AS I have on Tiguan are the way to go. If I still lived in San Diego or Alabama, I would run performance summer tires, but they lose performance below 60 degrees fast. Once snow hits, I just switch to snow tires.

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

I don’t give a flying rip about noise. I care about traction. Period. That’s my only priority.

Cross Climates give the absolute best grip in all possible situations. They are a no-brainer for any colder climate road vehicle as far as I’m concerned.

 

[edyvw]

I don’t give a flying rip about noise. I care about traction. Period. That’s my only priority.

Cross Climates give the absolute best grip in all possible situations. They are a no-brainer for any colder climate road vehicle as far as I’m concerned.

Yeah, I do not think so.

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

Yeah, I do not think so.

Yes. No other single tire is able to cope with the same variable conditions as well. The CC2 is good at everything from dry, wet, freezing, snow, etc. If you know of a single other tire that does as well in all of these conditions, you should say so.

 

[edyvw]

Yes. No other single tire is able to cope with the same variable conditions as well. The CC2 is good at everything from dry, wet, freezing, snow, etc. If you know of a single other tire that does as well in all of these conditions, you should say so.

You said this: " best grip in all possible situations." No it is NOT best. It is good, FAR from the best! It is not as good in snow, ice, very cold weather as snow tires. It is not as good in dry or wet as summer tires or dry and wet in cold temperatures as AS and potentially summer tires.
It is a compromise, a BIG one!

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

You said this: " best grip in all possible situations." No it is NOT best. It is good, FAR from the best! It is not as good in snow, ice, very cold weather as snow tires. It is not as good in dry or wet as summer tires or dry and wet in cold temperatures as AS and potentially summer tires.
It is a compromise, a BIG one!

You’re totally misreading what I said. I’m not saying it’s the best at any individual situation. I am saying it has the best grip in all situations, meaning if you total traction from all conditions, the sum is greatest.

No other tire offers the same level of grip in all conditions. I don’t know how else to put it. It’s a “compromise” but the sum benefit is much greater than any other tire. All tires are compromise. CC2s balance the compromise best, such that the sum is far above anything else. They are the best all around road tire I’ve ever run.

 

[edyvw]

You’re totally misreading what I said. I’m not saying it’s the best at anything. I am saying it has the best grip in ALL situations, meaning if you total traction from all conditions, the sum is greatest.

No other tire offers the same level of grip in all conditions. I don’t know how else to put it. It’s a “compromise” but the sum benefit is much greater than any other tire. They are the best all around road tire I’ve ever run.

That is not how things work. If you drive in summer and want the best performance, it is absolutely irrelevant that CC2 is good in cold or snowy weather. The fact is that it does not perform as well. If you want max performance in snow or ice, it is absolutely irrelevant that CC2 is good in dry. Tires do not magically decrease stopping distance in snow or ice because they are also good in other categories.
You do not need to put in quotation marks a compromise. It is a compromise bcs. you are compromising performance in ALL disciplines to get something acceptable. I drive on two sets of tires on the street on all three cars. CC2 will not perform at all like either of those sets in the conditions that they are made for. So yes, it is compromise, and for some people, that compromise is what they need, and that is fine. But this reminds me of that topic where someone bought a Camry and, after 4 pages of discussion, started to compare it to a Corvette. You bought Camry bcs. it is an appliance vehicle, and regardless of your love for it, it is still an appliance vehicle. Think of CC2 as Camry, and Michelin PS4S as Ferrari.

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

That is not how things work. If you drive in summer and want the best performance, it is absolutely irrelevant that CC2 is good in cold or snowy weather. The fact is that it does not perform as well. If you want max performance in snow or ice, it is absolutely irrelevant that CC2 is good in dry. Tires do not magically decrease stopping distance in snow or ice because they are also good in other categories.
You do not need to put in quotation marks a compromise. It is a compromise bcs. you are compromising performance in ALL disciplines to get something acceptable. I drive on two sets of tires on the street on all three cars. CC2 will not perform at all like either of those sets in the conditions that they are made for. So yes, it is compromise, and for some people, that compromise is what they need, and that is fine. But this reminds me of that topic where someone bought a Camry and, after 4 pages of discussion, started to compare it to a Corvette. You bought Camry bcs. it is an appliance vehicle, and regardless of your love for it, it is still an appliance vehicle. Think of CC2 as Camry, and Michelin PS4S as Ferrari.

So everyone should just run summer tires in the summer and winter tires in the winter and be just like you and nobody will face warm days in winter and get caught in September snowstorms, then?

Ridiculous. You never clearly been where I live. CC2s are absolutely fantastic tires.

 

[edyvw]

So everyone should just run summer tires in the summer and winter tires in the winter and be just like you and nobody will face warm days in winter and get caught in September snowstorms, then?

Ridiculous. You never clearly been where I live. CC2s are absolutely fantastic tires.

Listen, I have already told you that CC2 is good tire. If you want me to prop your ego that is related to your tire purchase, sure: you are driving McLaren F1 of tire world.
And no, I have no idea about snow in September. No one in Colorado does.

 

[dumkid]

You guys are saying the same thing two different ways. Going places says the cross climates are the best because they can do most anything, and Eddy says there's better tires but they don't do snow

 

[edyvw]

You guys are saying the same thing two different ways. Going places says the cross climates are the best because they can do most anything, and Eddy says there's better tires but they don't do snow

Everyone is saying that tire does most things good. NOT best, but good. And there are people that need precisely that.
Which is far different than: it has best performance in all possible conditions.
It doesn’t, it has good, and it is typical tire that has a lot of compromises. The question is whether driver is aware and willing to accept those compromises? Most drivers are not aware of those compromises as tire places selling CC2 as “best” tire and expectation is to be “best.” Guy in Big O’ tires wanted to sell me CC2 as “best out there” bcs. he didn’t have Continental VikingContact 7 that I asked for. Someone would actually fall for it.

 

[hemioiler]

Everyone is saying that tire does most things good. NOT best, but good. And there are people that need precisely that.
Which is far different than: it has best performance in all possible conditions.
It doesn’t, it has good, and it is typical tire that has a lot of compromises. The question is whether driver is aware and willing to accept those compromises? Most drivers are not aware of those compromises as tire places selling CC2 as “best” tire and expectation is to be “best.” Guy in Big O’ tires wanted to sell me CC2 as “best out there” bcs. he didn’t have Continental VikingContact 7 that I asked for. Someone would actually fall for it.

I think you're still misreading his point. His point is: if you want only a single tire, and run that single tire everywhere, than that tire will offer the best traction. He's not saying it's the best in the winter and the best in the summer, just that it's the best all around compromising tire.

If you go back and read his statement again with that in mind, his statement makes sense.

If you know of a single other tire that does as well in all of these conditions, you should say so

 

[edyvw]

I think you're still misreading his point. His point is: if you want only a single tire, and run that single tire everywhere, than that tire will offer the best traction. He's not saying it's the best in the winter and the best in the summer, just that it's the best all around compromising tire.

If you go back and read his statement again with that in mind, his statement makes sense.

It might very well be the best all-weather tire. He also puts compromise in quotation marks. It is absolutely compromise. Tires like CC2 are not the best in anything except in their own category. That is the point of those tires. There is no such thing as best in the sum of all things unless you compare it to another all-weather tire. Performance is measured in each discipline, and the question is whether the driver is willing to accept the fact that the tire will NOT have certain performance in dry, wet, snow, and ice as some other tires, more specifically summer, winter or some all-season tires?
This is what he said: " best grip in all possible situations." The best grip in all possible situations means "best grip" in any given situation. That tire does not have the best grip in ANY discipline. It is purposely made that way.

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

Again, for the final time: I never said it is better than any other tire in any specific situation.

I said it offers the best traction for all conditions. It’s so good that the difference between it and either a true summer or winter tire will surprise people. In the real world, this ensures you always have adequate traction no matter what the weather is.

Finally, again: All tires are compromises. Track tires hydroplane in the wet. Summer tires glass in the cold. Winter tires get sloppy in the warm. All terrains wander on the highway. Eco tires offer poor braking and handling performance. These are all various compromises.

The CC2 uses some pretty clever technology to balance the trade offs in a way that makes it the best performer in the real world when encountering all road conditions, which in turn creates a sum total performance that is disproportionately higher than one might expect, and higher than any other tire overall. I stand by my statement that’s it’s the best tire for encountering all road situations.

PS: I don’t even have CC2s right now either, so this isn’t about justifying any kind of purchase. I’m running Nokian Rotiivas, Outpost ATs, KO2s, and Blizzaks.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

We need TyreReviews to test in all seasons and weather conditions. Since all brands are doing the all weather versions now.

Michelin CC2, Bridgestone WeatherPeak, GY WeatherReady, Nokian WRG4, Toyo Celsius, Vredestein Quatrac Pro, Nokian Encompass, General Altimax 365, Firestone Weathergrip,

Family and Friends with CC2 are very happy with them. They were also very happy with past Nokians. Some run the CC2 and Nokian as 3 season and then still have true winters but wait until later to install and remove earlier.

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

We need TyreReviews to test in all seasons and weather conditions. Since all brands are doing the all weather versions now.

Michelin CC2, Bridgestone WeatherPeak, GY WeatherReady, Nokian WRG4, Toyo Celsius, Vredestein Quatrac Pro, Nokian Encompass, General Altimax 365, Firestone Weathergrip,

Family and Friends with CC2 are very happy with them. They were also very happy with past Nokians. Some run the CC2 and Nokian as 3 season and then still have true winters but wait until later to install and remove earlier.

Agreed, the old adage “all seasons aren’t good at anything” is obsolete. 10 or so years ago this may have been true, but not anymore. I would not be surprised if the newer top level all seasons match both dedicated summer and winter tire performance of tires 10 or so years ago.

 

[edyvw]

Again, for the final time: I never said it is better than any other tire in any specific situation.

I said it offers the best traction for all conditions. It’s so good that the difference between it and either a true summer or winter tire will surprise people. In the real world, this ensures you always have adequate traction no matter what the weather is.

Finally, again: All tires are compromises. Track tires hydroplane in the wet. Summer tires glass in the cold. Winter tires get sloppy in the warm. All terrains wander on the highway. Eco tires offer poor braking and handling performance. These are all various compromises.

The CC2 uses some pretty clever technology to balance the trade offs in a way that makes it the best performer in the real world when encountering all road conditions, which in turn creates a sum total performance that is disproportionately higher than one might expect, and higher than any other tire overall. I stand by my statement that’s it’s the best tire for encountering all road situations.

PS: I don’t even have CC2s right now either, so this isn’t about justifying any kind of purchase. I’m running Nokian Rotiivas, Outpost ATs, KO2s, and Blizzaks.

Which is fine. Your initial statement which I replied to indicates the best performance in possible situations. That indicates best performance in wet situations, dry etc. Any given one.