any company that would get away with the minimum while still meeting specs would do so, including valvoline. they simply would not spend money on achieving half of the wear limit (for example) when they are selling to the dimwit public (who their major oil consumers would be) and their competitors would do the same.
philisophical discussion of Val, Pennz, and GTX
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Originally Posted By: postjeeprcr
Originally Posted By: strombony
Can we have a philosophical discussion as to which one of these many of you would feel is better than the other?
And not discuss which one would be chosen based on price. I want to know why many of you choose X brand of conventional oil over another brand for reasons other than price. Have some of you found first hand results seen with the naked eye that leads you to believe that one is better than the other? Does X brand make your vehicle perform better than Y? I'm not so sure my choice of the term "philosophical" really fits here, but I think you know what I mean.
It is amazing how price always comes into it even if the OP says mentioning nothing about price what would you pick.
It is quite easy to determine price. How an oil is working?
Originally Posted By: strombony
Can we have a philosophical discussion as to which one of these many of you would feel is better than the other?
And not discuss which one would be chosen based on price. I want to know why many of you choose X brand of conventional oil over another brand for reasons other than price. Have some of you found first hand results seen with the naked eye that leads you to believe that one is better than the other? Does X brand make your vehicle perform better than Y? I'm not so sure my choice of the term "philosophical" really fits here, but I think you know what I mean.
It is amazing how price always comes into it even if the OP says mentioning nothing about price what would you pick.
It is quite easy to determine price. How an oil is working?
In well over 30 years of car ownership. I've used Mobil 1 (over 20 years) as my only synthetic oil until late 2008 when I stopped using it. In conventional oils I used Valvoline for several years, Castrol, and Pennzoil. I used Pennzoil conventional more than any other oil, and found it to be the best conventional.
Upon joining BITOG, and owning a vehicle with over 150,000 miles I started switching brands a little, but still feel Pennzoil makes the best oil you can grab in a store. Any engine I owned that I took a valve cover off was always the cleanest with Pennzoil. But then again none of them were really dirty, from what I could see. MMO was used quite often too, so that could have helped keep them clean. JMO
Upon joining BITOG, and owning a vehicle with over 150,000 miles I started switching brands a little, but still feel Pennzoil makes the best oil you can grab in a store. Any engine I owned that I took a valve cover off was always the cleanest with Pennzoil. But then again none of them were really dirty, from what I could see. MMO was used quite often too, so that could have helped keep them clean. JMO
Originally Posted By: Shannow
A post was made quite some time ago by a well respected BBer that Valvoline had one of the best labs in the world for developing/testing oils...
The inference was that Valvoline use this extraordinary lab to create lubricants that just cross the performance line, rather than excell.
That post made an impression on me, and demonstrated another way of playing the cost/benefit game.
And I think it justifies their attack on a non compliant major.
Shannow, any idea where I can find the post about the Valvoline lab? I would really like to read it.
A post was made quite some time ago by a well respected BBer that Valvoline had one of the best labs in the world for developing/testing oils...
The inference was that Valvoline use this extraordinary lab to create lubricants that just cross the performance line, rather than excell.
That post made an impression on me, and demonstrated another way of playing the cost/benefit game.
And I think it justifies their attack on a non compliant major.
Shannow, any idea where I can find the post about the Valvoline lab? I would really like to read it.
I also have heard that Valvoline lab stuff. Well that is market competition, they make it just good enough to get the sales edge. Fortunately, in the case of motor oil, that "just good enough" seems to be pretty good due to the stringent requirements for certification.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
In well over 30 years of car ownership. I've used Mobil 1 (over 20 years) as my only synthetic oil until late 2008 when I stopped using it. In conventional oils I used Valvoline for several years, Castrol, and Pennzoil. I used Pennzoil conventional more than any other oil, and found it to be the best conventional.
Upon joining BITOG, and owning a vehicle with over 150,000 miles I started switching brands a little, but still feel Pennzoil makes the best oil you can grab in a store. Any engine I owned that I took a valve cover off was always the cleanest with Pennzoil. But then again none of them were really dirty, from what I could see. MMO was used quite often too, so that could have helped keep them clean. JMO
Your engines ability to stay clean depended mostly on its own particular design, your oil changing habits, your driving habits and your environment.
The oil you used had about the smallest part in all of this. Most if not all modern oils will do exactly what you found in your engine.
In well over 30 years of car ownership. I've used Mobil 1 (over 20 years) as my only synthetic oil until late 2008 when I stopped using it. In conventional oils I used Valvoline for several years, Castrol, and Pennzoil. I used Pennzoil conventional more than any other oil, and found it to be the best conventional.
Upon joining BITOG, and owning a vehicle with over 150,000 miles I started switching brands a little, but still feel Pennzoil makes the best oil you can grab in a store. Any engine I owned that I took a valve cover off was always the cleanest with Pennzoil. But then again none of them were really dirty, from what I could see. MMO was used quite often too, so that could have helped keep them clean. JMO
Your engines ability to stay clean depended mostly on its own particular design, your oil changing habits, your driving habits and your environment.
The oil you used had about the smallest part in all of this. Most if not all modern oils will do exactly what you found in your engine.
And from what I have read Valvoline is the only brand of oil that is still owned by its creator. Perhaps that says alot about the care they take in making their product as they look at it like its their baby and not just a brand they inherited ( step-oil?)
I wonder if the perception/reality of Mobil 1's decline in performance had anything to do timing wise with the Exxon merger?
I wonder if the perception/reality of Mobil 1's decline in performance had anything to do timing wise with the Exxon merger?
Not quite. The original was the Freedom-Valvoline Oil Company, that was purchased by Ashland Oil. So would that make Valvoline inherited and a step-oil?
Originally Posted By: peterdaniel
I think Valvoline is the only one that has always been the same company no? Well Valvoline came into Ashland in 1949:
Well Valvoline came into Ashland in 1949:Ashland Corporate History
I think Valvoline is the only one that has always been the same company no? Well Valvoline came into Ashland in 1949:
Well Valvoline came into Ashland in 1949:Ashland Corporate History
Originally Posted By: crinkles
any company that would get away with the minimum while still meeting specs would do so, including valvoline. they simply would not spend money on achieving half of the wear limit (for example) when they are selling to the dimwit public (who their major oil consumers would be) and their competitors would do the same.
Exactly. That is why we can buy jugs of Pennzoil, Castrol & Valvoline at China-Mart for $13ish and Amsoil is $7-$10 a quart. Amsoil and other large(small) synthetic companies invest time, money AND research into their oils. Thus, the consumer pays for the extra research and reaps the benefits of it.
Pennzoil, Castrol & Valvoline could be better oils than they already are, but we as the consumers would foot the bill. They are already great oils for what they are, they don't need improving.
Put any (dino) oil in your car (as long as it meets specs) use a decent filter, change in 3K-5K intervals, and enjoy a long engine life.
Pennzoil vs. Castrol vs. Valvoline is like trying to decide between Pepsi, Coca-Cola & RC Cola. I am reaching for the RC Cola every time. Cheap and the SAME taste as the name brand.
any company that would get away with the minimum while still meeting specs would do so, including valvoline. they simply would not spend money on achieving half of the wear limit (for example) when they are selling to the dimwit public (who their major oil consumers would be) and their competitors would do the same.
Exactly. That is why we can buy jugs of Pennzoil, Castrol & Valvoline at China-Mart for $13ish and Amsoil is $7-$10 a quart. Amsoil and other large(small) synthetic companies invest time, money AND research into their oils. Thus, the consumer pays for the extra research and reaps the benefits of it.
Pennzoil, Castrol & Valvoline could be better oils than they already are, but we as the consumers would foot the bill. They are already great oils for what they are, they don't need improving.
Put any (dino) oil in your car (as long as it meets specs) use a decent filter, change in 3K-5K intervals, and enjoy a long engine life.
Pennzoil vs. Castrol vs. Valvoline is like trying to decide between Pepsi, Coca-Cola & RC Cola. I am reaching for the RC Cola every time. Cheap and the SAME taste as the name brand.
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If you compared any of the above conventional oils, with a homemade synthetic blend (use 4 quarts of any of the above mentioned oils with 1 quart of full synthetic), the result would be far superior to 5 quarts of any conventional oil.
The synthetic blends on the market are a rip-off, because it is far cheaper to make your own synthetic blend. Don't worry about mixing different brands. Even 1 quart of Walmart house brand synthetic with 4 quarts of conventional would be better.
Now better does not always show up in the real world. As many have noted, they have gotten by with conventional oil for many years if they do frequent oil changes.
The synthetic blends on the market are a rip-off, because it is far cheaper to make your own synthetic blend. Don't worry about mixing different brands. Even 1 quart of Walmart house brand synthetic with 4 quarts of conventional would be better.
Now better does not always show up in the real world. As many have noted, they have gotten by with conventional oil for many years if they do frequent oil changes.
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
Castrol is owned by BP lubricants.
Wasn't it originally a German company?
A neglected part of buy American is the ownership of the company. When I started buying Pennzoil, part of the price ended up in Bradford PA. Now some of it ends up in Holland I believe.
Castrol is owned by BP lubricants.
Wasn't it originally a German company?
A neglected part of buy American is the ownership of the company. When I started buying Pennzoil, part of the price ended up in Bradford PA. Now some of it ends up in Holland I believe.
As for as I know, Castrol has always been British.
It's still British Petroleum. That "Beyond Petroleum" nonsense started when they took over Amoco.
Well, is says Amoco on the pumps in small letters, but BP owns the Amoco fuel refineries.
Originally Posted By: strombony
I don't think anyone knows what Castrol is anymore. BP is no longer British Petrolium...it is now Beyond Petrolium...and who knows who owns that? Any ideas?
That is just a "feel good" advertising slogan to make tree huggers feel better about the oil companies when they were getting rich on $145/barrel oil. It is still British Petroelum. The bought Amoco awhile ago.
I don't think anyone knows what Castrol is anymore. BP is no longer British Petrolium...it is now Beyond Petrolium...and who knows who owns that? Any ideas?
That is just a "feel good" advertising slogan to make tree huggers feel better about the oil companies when they were getting rich on $145/barrel oil. It is still British Petroelum. The bought Amoco awhile ago.
Originally Posted By: strombony
I don't think anyone knows what Castrol is anymore. BP is no longer British Petrolium...it is now Beyond Petrolium...and who knows who owns that? Any ideas?
Dr. Evil, and he is using it to finance his new bio weapon.
I read it on the internet......That may sound silly, but I just read a thread about the philosophy of choosing a motor oil brand.
I don't think anyone knows what Castrol is anymore. BP is no longer British Petrolium...it is now Beyond Petrolium...and who knows who owns that? Any ideas?
Dr. Evil, and he is using it to finance his new bio weapon.
I read it on the internet......That may sound silly, but I just read a thread about the philosophy of choosing a motor oil brand.
We have very little objective data upon which to choose between the major brands of oils ... which is why I buy on price.
Yesterday I was in the local Tractor Supply store. Rotella 15W-40 was priced at $11/gallon. Pennzoil Long Life 15W-40 was $17/gallon. Which of these well regarded HDEOs from the very same manufacturer is better? Rotella, because it is cheaper.
" The synthetic blends on the market are a rip-off, because it is far cheaper to make your own synthetic blend. Don't worry about mixing different brands. Even 1 quart of Walmart house brand synthetic with 4 quarts of conventional would be better."
Hmmm, that is quite a leap of faith. Sometimes a little knowledge is dangerous.
Yesterday I was in the local Tractor Supply store. Rotella 15W-40 was priced at $11/gallon. Pennzoil Long Life 15W-40 was $17/gallon. Which of these well regarded HDEOs from the very same manufacturer is better? Rotella, because it is cheaper.
" The synthetic blends on the market are a rip-off, because it is far cheaper to make your own synthetic blend. Don't worry about mixing different brands. Even 1 quart of Walmart house brand synthetic with 4 quarts of conventional would be better."
Hmmm, that is quite a leap of faith. Sometimes a little knowledge is dangerous.
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