Ph7317
- Thread starter Bettez88
- Start date
Federal Bureau of Investigation!
So with your scientific test... are you saying that FRAM is lying and the black is not silicone as they state on the box and the reply that I got from Fram????
There are doctors that can help you......
As the graph shows in post #146, the colder the temperature the easier it would be to see the difference between nitrile and silicone. Not rocket science.
I located all three examples in the local Walmart, black, blue, orange.
The black looks shinier than typical Nitrile… I’ll try to get them frozen in the next few days…
The black looks shinier than typical Nitrile… I’ll try to get them frozen in the next few days…
My prior comments assumed that a typical freezer is at most 0F (-18C), so typical is likely -5 to -15F.
And there will be a large difference in that range as you've pointed out.
Ok, nobody is arguing, just presenting information. I learned something today, thanks.
By accident I came across this reference, which adds information. As seen, there are many types of nitrile. Low temp is not that different in the best nitrile and “standard“ silicone, 10 degrees. -40 C is the same as -40 F so that should cover most habitable places. I looked it up to know that. The reference is from Koyo bearing company.
More Testing, I found an adbv on the floor in my garage, probably from a Delco oil filter by Champ labs. My freezer is -1 F which correspond roughly to the -20 C, at -18. It was very slightly stiff but did not keep it’s deformed shape. It came back. The Toyota showed no change detectable, seemed the same. I can see the benefit to high heat for silicone reaching to 200 C, unless the nitrile is the hydrogenated kind, which goes to 140-150 in this data.
Koyo bearing.
More Testing, I found an adbv on the floor in my garage, probably from a Delco oil filter by Champ labs. My freezer is -1 F which correspond roughly to the -20 C, at -18. It was very slightly stiff but did not keep it’s deformed shape. It came back. The Toyota showed no change detectable, seemed the same. I can see the benefit to high heat for silicone reaching to 200 C, unless the nitrile is the hydrogenated kind, which goes to 140-150 in this data.
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There's definitely different grades of nitrile-the Purolator made QS filters are the ones that had rapid issues, the ones Baldwin/Clarcor use seem to be comparable to cheaper silicone ADBVs. I wish my brother's old Tercel was still around, it ate the QS ones like candy, while an FL-400S would last 8000+ miles. It's going to take running one of these black ADBV EG filters hard, in hot conditions, to determine whether they're good enough or not.
Most nitirile doesn't like temperatures over around 250 F (120 C). Any idea how hot the oil runs in the vehicle?
His Tercel didn’t seem to run super hot, but the filter mounted horizontally on the front of the engine (1987 2E IIRC), and it would COOK QS ADBVs, they wouldn’t last 2000 miles in hot weather until the startup rattles would begin.
Maybe we’re going about this the wrong way-maybe baking nitrile & silicone ADBVs in an oven for 250-300F for an hour would be a better test? Seems like heat is the cheap ADBV’s real enemy.
Like mentioned in another thread, the flame/match/lighter test to see how it burns would be simple and show if they are nitrile or silicone.
Silicone ADBV - Always red?
Just to give some context to latest pic posted. On left is older Royal Purple with silicone adbv, and right is older ACDelco ecore with nitrile adbv. Same as Fleetguard OF confirmed, ACDelco makes no pretense of claiming black adbv other than nitrile. Also, neither filter pictured has same...
bobistheoilguy.com
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Just to be clear Fram claims the purpose as longevity related:
"The silicone ADBV remains flexible three times longer than nitrile, offering added protection for safe engine start-ups. Additionally, the new and improved filter offers even stronger protection against dry starts, which can damage the engine."
You'll notice in the info posted above about nitrile it shows that typical oil operating temperatures would be fairly close to the upper limit of compatibility for nitrile.
Certainly questionable if you're doing any sort of racing. And its heat that contributes to degradation of rubber materials.
Also, these are compatibility charts, not necessarily speaking to low temperature flexibility. The ADBV is a bit unique versus stationary seals, gaskets, etc.
On separate topic i mentioned fluorosilicone earlier, On further investigation I can't find any reference that fluorosilicone is used in such applications.
It is a superior material, but 5x the cost, and just doesn't seem necessary for this purpose. Its used in fuel contacting parts from what I gather.
"The silicone ADBV remains flexible three times longer than nitrile, offering added protection for safe engine start-ups. Additionally, the new and improved filter offers even stronger protection against dry starts, which can damage the engine."
You'll notice in the info posted above about nitrile it shows that typical oil operating temperatures would be fairly close to the upper limit of compatibility for nitrile.
Certainly questionable if you're doing any sort of racing. And its heat that contributes to degradation of rubber materials.
Also, these are compatibility charts, not necessarily speaking to low temperature flexibility. The ADBV is a bit unique versus stationary seals, gaskets, etc.
On separate topic i mentioned fluorosilicone earlier, On further investigation I can't find any reference that fluorosilicone is used in such applications.
It is a superior material, but 5x the cost, and just doesn't seem necessary for this purpose. Its used in fuel contacting parts from what I gather.
So my experiment ended up in flames, literally. It’s a nitrile ABDV. A sneaky cost-cutting move. I’ll buy OCOJs, but keep them in service for no more than 5K.
LOL... do give us the sorted details...
Im still looking for my filter cutter, but will be glad to try to duplicate your experiment for the record.
