I guess as I look back at things now, I could have kept the Mobil 1 in there longer, say 6 months and 5,000 miles. However, I'm still glad I changed to PP.
Pennzoil Platinum Plus
- Thread starter thomasew
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What "Platinum" alone is not superlative enough???
So now Platinum needs a plus as well??? geez
So now Platinum needs a plus as well??? geez
Originally Posted By: Johnny
1. Pennzoil/Shell has never said it was a long OCI oil, but we have all seen excellent UOA with it going 10-12K. That's long enough. It goes as far as Mobil 1 does.
2. Most of the cars that are consuming it, are high mileage cars. They would probably have consumption with any synthetic and may have had consumption before they started using it.
I'm running two Honda Elements on it doing 10K changes and I have absolutely no consumption.
So, as for as I'm concerned, there is no negative.
I'm running the 5w30 in a Lexus V6 with 144,000 miles and it uses 1/3 qt in 5000 miles. Not a big consumption issue here. My GMC 6.0L has 38,000 miles and no consumption at all with PP in 5000 miles. 6qts in 6qts out.
1. Pennzoil/Shell has never said it was a long OCI oil, but we have all seen excellent UOA with it going 10-12K. That's long enough. It goes as far as Mobil 1 does.
2. Most of the cars that are consuming it, are high mileage cars. They would probably have consumption with any synthetic and may have had consumption before they started using it.
I'm running two Honda Elements on it doing 10K changes and I have absolutely no consumption.
So, as for as I'm concerned, there is no negative.
I'm running the 5w30 in a Lexus V6 with 144,000 miles and it uses 1/3 qt in 5000 miles. Not a big consumption issue here. My GMC 6.0L has 38,000 miles and no consumption at all with PP in 5000 miles. 6qts in 6qts out.
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Originally Posted By: Built_Well
I'm not an expert, but what about the wear issue with Mobil 1? I've been reading online that as good as Mobil 1 claims to be, it's engine wear numbers are generally higher than PP, so why spend the extra money for M1? M1 was the first synth I had in my car, but when I learned about its extra wear, I dumped it out at only about 4 months and 2,800 miles, and replaced it with PP.
What "wear issue"?
Did you actually do back-to-back UOA's with YOUR car that gave you scary wear numbers or are you basing this on bits and pieces of other people's UOA's?
If M1 was as "bad" as some people like to think it is/make it out to be I don't think we'd be seeing Porsche using it...... Or Mercedes... or....etc. Get the picture?
I'm not an expert, but what about the wear issue with Mobil 1? I've been reading online that as good as Mobil 1 claims to be, it's engine wear numbers are generally higher than PP, so why spend the extra money for M1? M1 was the first synth I had in my car, but when I learned about its extra wear, I dumped it out at only about 4 months and 2,800 miles, and replaced it with PP.
What "wear issue"?
Did you actually do back-to-back UOA's with YOUR car that gave you scary wear numbers or are you basing this on bits and pieces of other people's UOA's?
If M1 was as "bad" as some people like to think it is/make it out to be I don't think we'd be seeing Porsche using it...... Or Mercedes... or....etc. Get the picture?
I'm not saying M1 is bad. But lots of folks are saying it is often exhibiting higher engine wear numbers than Pennzoil Platinum. So why spend the extra 10 to 20 percent for it at Walmart?
I also changed the M1 early because I was eager to try PP.
I also changed the M1 early because I was eager to try PP.
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....Plus Mobil gas stations don't sell Top Tier gasoline. That just doesn't sit right with me, and makes me wonder if the company is cutting corners with its oil, too.
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Originally Posted By: Built_Well
I'm not saying M1 is bad. But lots of folks are saying it is often exhibiting higher engine wear numbers than Pennzoil Platinum. So why spend the extra 10 to 20 percent for it at Walmart?
I also changed the M1 early because I was eager to try PP.
I think the last part of your post betrayed you.
There are a lot of people who flame M1. And as others have stated, PP seems to be the "oil of the month" on here right now. I am sure that PP is a fine oil, but I doubt any company in history has ever spent as much on R&D and field testing as Exxon-Mobil has. They have that luxury because they are the largest manufacturer of synthetic lubricants and the largest OEM supplier. They are also the largest manufacturer and distributor of synthetic base-stocks. AMSOIL has no problem admitting that they purchase some of their base-stocks from EM. I imagine RP and Redline do as well.
Now, I am NOT saying that M1 is the be-all and end-all of synthetic lubricants. Companies like AMSOIL who have been around and making their living producing solely synthetic lubricants for as long as they have obviously have a very good product and a strong following. BUT, I also don't think M1 is as BAD as many people try to make it out to be, simply because everybody likes to pick on the guy on top.
It's great that you've chosen to run PP, I'm sure it's a fine oil. But attempting to pass-off an early drain of M1 due to other people's opinions and select UOA's as a valid reason to doubt M1 does not fly with me.
To put it another way: My 302's are likely driven harder in one week than your Toyota will ever be driven in it's life. I have posted up pictures of the inside of the one. That's M1. That engine holds 38psi hot at idle on a 30-weight, and is in a Mustang. That fact alone should indicate the type of driving it has seen. Worrying about a potential wear-metals issue with M1 in your engine is quite frankly ridiculous, given the types of cars that the stuff comes in from the factory, and those of us who RACE our cars running it, and the engines continue to last and last and remain clean inside.
You have nothing to worry about with M1. You have CHOSEN to run PP. Fantastic! But trying to justify the switch because of speculation of higher wear metals without a few UOA's in your own car to back it up? Come on
I'm not saying M1 is bad. But lots of folks are saying it is often exhibiting higher engine wear numbers than Pennzoil Platinum. So why spend the extra 10 to 20 percent for it at Walmart?
I also changed the M1 early because I was eager to try PP.
I think the last part of your post betrayed you.
There are a lot of people who flame M1. And as others have stated, PP seems to be the "oil of the month" on here right now. I am sure that PP is a fine oil, but I doubt any company in history has ever spent as much on R&D and field testing as Exxon-Mobil has. They have that luxury because they are the largest manufacturer of synthetic lubricants and the largest OEM supplier. They are also the largest manufacturer and distributor of synthetic base-stocks. AMSOIL has no problem admitting that they purchase some of their base-stocks from EM. I imagine RP and Redline do as well.
Now, I am NOT saying that M1 is the be-all and end-all of synthetic lubricants. Companies like AMSOIL who have been around and making their living producing solely synthetic lubricants for as long as they have obviously have a very good product and a strong following. BUT, I also don't think M1 is as BAD as many people try to make it out to be, simply because everybody likes to pick on the guy on top.
It's great that you've chosen to run PP, I'm sure it's a fine oil. But attempting to pass-off an early drain of M1 due to other people's opinions and select UOA's as a valid reason to doubt M1 does not fly with me.
To put it another way: My 302's are likely driven harder in one week than your Toyota will ever be driven in it's life. I have posted up pictures of the inside of the one. That's M1. That engine holds 38psi hot at idle on a 30-weight, and is in a Mustang. That fact alone should indicate the type of driving it has seen. Worrying about a potential wear-metals issue with M1 in your engine is quite frankly ridiculous, given the types of cars that the stuff comes in from the factory, and those of us who RACE our cars running it, and the engines continue to last and last and remain clean inside.
You have nothing to worry about with M1. You have CHOSEN to run PP. Fantastic! But trying to justify the switch because of speculation of higher wear metals without a few UOA's in your own car to back it up? Come on
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Originally Posted By: Built_Well
....Plus Mobil gas stations don't sell Top Tier gasoline. That just doesn't sit right with me, and makes me wonder if the company is cutting corners with its oil, too.
Maybe they don't like the Top Tier gas standard? I get MUCH better gas mileage on ESSO (EM) than I do on Sunoco or Shell, both of which are Top Tier.
....Plus Mobil gas stations don't sell Top Tier gasoline. That just doesn't sit right with me, and makes me wonder if the company is cutting corners with its oil, too.
Maybe they don't like the Top Tier gas standard? I get MUCH better gas mileage on ESSO (EM) than I do on Sunoco or Shell, both of which are Top Tier.
"You have nothing to worry about with M1. You have CHOSEN to run PP. Fantastic! But trying to justify the switch because of speculation of higher wear metals without a few UOA's to back it up? Come on"
I always love how M1 gets brought up in a PP thread,IMO there
both good oil's,i just happen to fancy M1 and think it's a better
oil,but thats me..that and i got WELL OVER 1,000,000 miles on the
oil in the many years i've been using it,never lost a engine
yet the the "high iron" levels it produces..$.02
both good oil's,i just happen to fancy M1 and think it's a better
oil,but thats me..that and i got WELL OVER 1,000,000 miles on the
oil in the many years i've been using it,never lost a engine
yet the the "high iron" levels it produces..$.02
This is from a thread posted on June 18. We are into page 80 something on the UOA now looking for some sort of solid trends. We are also looking at 0W and 10W as well as 5W-30 but they are for product comparison purposes only and will not be displayed. We plan to go back to SL or we run out of threads, whichever comes first. We are going to look at stay in grade, wear metals, and on those UOA that display them remaining TBN. We are searching for trends only.
AS OF NOW, and we are just getting started, there is a long way to go, but AS OF NOW, amsoil products are best stay in grade and wear metals with Mobil 1 a VERY, VERY close second.
What will all this prove? Maybe nothing more than I am an old, retired, semi cripple that spends a lot of time doing computer research and has like friends.
Someone on here told me than any name brand 5W-30 synthetic out there will take a well cared for motor 200,000 miles. That may be all, or even more, that most folk care about.
"This was not any sort of test that I/we conducted. We went to the used oil analysis forum on this site. We took what we beleived to be the five most common synthetic oils: Mobil 1, Pennzoil Platnum, Valvoline Synpower, Castrol Syntec, and Quaker State Q. We made a column for each of the oils. In the coulmn for that oil we put the OCI and the ending 100C cSt compared to the starting 100C cSt. We were then going to average the OCI and ending 100C cSt. We looked for contaminants, fuel, antifreeeze and things that could slip in through the air intake. If we believed the OCI was ridicilous and not a true indication we tossed that out. For example we had one OCI of 20,000+ miles and the ending cSt was 16+.
We discovered that Mobil 1 sheared down past 9.3 less than the other 4. We found that Pennzoil Platnum sheared down past 9.3 the most(2973 miles on the low side and 4818 miles on the high side) and thickened above 10.2, its starting 100C cSt, the most(5300 on the low side and 9352 on the high side).
We just plain old turned chicken and decided we were just going to add fuel to feuding fires, and terminated the research because we were no longer convinced that it would accomplish anything we wanted. It really depends on the vehicle, maintenance habits, driving habits, driving conditions, and much more than just the brand and grade of oil.
We may go back some day and research the UOA forum and check every 5W-30 oil looking for nothing but a trend. That is the only thing I think is really worth researching, now.
To compare 0W to 5W to 10W seemed to work out rather well. It was an eye opener for me. To try to determine the best brand of XW-30 compared to other brands of XW-30 is a little beyond my willingness to invest time and effort. Even if you looked at UOA from same year/size/type engines, you still don't really know the driving habits, maintenance habits, driving conditions, and other needful information."
AS OF NOW, and we are just getting started, there is a long way to go, but AS OF NOW, amsoil products are best stay in grade and wear metals with Mobil 1 a VERY, VERY close second.
What will all this prove? Maybe nothing more than I am an old, retired, semi cripple that spends a lot of time doing computer research and has like friends.
Someone on here told me than any name brand 5W-30 synthetic out there will take a well cared for motor 200,000 miles. That may be all, or even more, that most folk care about.
"This was not any sort of test that I/we conducted. We went to the used oil analysis forum on this site. We took what we beleived to be the five most common synthetic oils: Mobil 1, Pennzoil Platnum, Valvoline Synpower, Castrol Syntec, and Quaker State Q. We made a column for each of the oils. In the coulmn for that oil we put the OCI and the ending 100C cSt compared to the starting 100C cSt. We were then going to average the OCI and ending 100C cSt. We looked for contaminants, fuel, antifreeeze and things that could slip in through the air intake. If we believed the OCI was ridicilous and not a true indication we tossed that out. For example we had one OCI of 20,000+ miles and the ending cSt was 16+.
We discovered that Mobil 1 sheared down past 9.3 less than the other 4. We found that Pennzoil Platnum sheared down past 9.3 the most(2973 miles on the low side and 4818 miles on the high side) and thickened above 10.2, its starting 100C cSt, the most(5300 on the low side and 9352 on the high side).
We just plain old turned chicken and decided we were just going to add fuel to feuding fires, and terminated the research because we were no longer convinced that it would accomplish anything we wanted. It really depends on the vehicle, maintenance habits, driving habits, driving conditions, and much more than just the brand and grade of oil.
We may go back some day and research the UOA forum and check every 5W-30 oil looking for nothing but a trend. That is the only thing I think is really worth researching, now.
To compare 0W to 5W to 10W seemed to work out rather well. It was an eye opener for me. To try to determine the best brand of XW-30 compared to other brands of XW-30 is a little beyond my willingness to invest time and effort. Even if you looked at UOA from same year/size/type engines, you still don't really know the driving habits, maintenance habits, driving conditions, and other needful information."
PP vs M1 EP....pretty even here with my UOAs. This is a span of 5 UOAs and 50,000 miles over the past 2 years.
Code:
OIL PP5W30 PP5W30 M1 5W/30 EP M1 5W/30 EP M1 5W/30 EP
MILES IN USE 12,318 5,060 12,532 9,950 5,000
MILES ON CAR 152,932 115,913 110,852 108,270 103,320
SAMPLE TAKEN 06/18/08 02/07/07 11/16/06 10/03/06 08/07/06
ALUMINUM 3 3 2 3 2
CHROMIUM 1 0 0 0 0
IRON 11 7 10 9 7
COPPER 5 5 5 6 5
LEAD 1 0 2 2 1
TIN 0 1 0 0 0
MOLYBDENUM 42 53 72 76 72
NICKEL 1 0 0 0 0
MANGANESE 0 0 0 0 0
SILVER 0 0 0 0 0
TITANIUM 0 0 0 0 0
POTASSIUM 2 2 0 2 1
BORON 21 9 49 53 60
SILICON 16 12 14 12 9
SODIUM 8 3 8 8 8
CALCIUM 2540 2295 2153 2397 2180
MAGNESIUM 88 12 11 12 12
PHOSPHORUS 653 644 574 610 587
ZINC 780 694 692 739 674
BARIUM 0 0 0 0 0
INSOLUBLES 0.3 0.2 0.2 0.2 0.2
WATER 0 0 0 0 0
FUEL
FLASHPOINT ºF 395 365 385 370 400
SUS VIS 210ºF 60.6 58.2 60.0 61.0 61.9
cSt @ 100ºC
TBN 2.9 2.6 2.6 4.0
TAN
Code:
OIL PP5W30 PP5W30 M1 5W/30 EP M1 5W/30 EP M1 5W/30 EP
MILES IN USE 12,318 5,060 12,532 9,950 5,000
MILES ON CAR 152,932 115,913 110,852 108,270 103,320
SAMPLE TAKEN 06/18/08 02/07/07 11/16/06 10/03/06 08/07/06
ALUMINUM 3 3 2 3 2
CHROMIUM 1 0 0 0 0
IRON 11 7 10 9 7
COPPER 5 5 5 6 5
LEAD 1 0 2 2 1
TIN 0 1 0 0 0
MOLYBDENUM 42 53 72 76 72
NICKEL 1 0 0 0 0
MANGANESE 0 0 0 0 0
SILVER 0 0 0 0 0
TITANIUM 0 0 0 0 0
POTASSIUM 2 2 0 2 1
BORON 21 9 49 53 60
SILICON 16 12 14 12 9
SODIUM 8 3 8 8 8
CALCIUM 2540 2295 2153 2397 2180
MAGNESIUM 88 12 11 12 12
PHOSPHORUS 653 644 574 610 587
ZINC 780 694 692 739 674
BARIUM 0 0 0 0 0
INSOLUBLES 0.3 0.2 0.2 0.2 0.2
WATER 0 0 0 0 0
FUEL
FLASHPOINT ºF 395 365 385 370 400
SUS VIS 210ºF 60.6 58.2 60.0 61.0 61.9
cSt @ 100ºC
TBN 2.9 2.6 2.6 4.0
TAN
Well I brought it up because people dog the [censored] out of M1 like an unwanted red headed step child!Trust me M1 get's brought up in just about any discussion of oil and wear metals! Their is this myth that seems to have a strangle hold on this forum wich is that "M1 causes higher iron and valve train wear then other oils."! So seeing how I have From 1988 to 2008 worth of experince of useing it in my vechiles,family vechiles and working on customer cars that used this and some rather exotic oils I like to act as a reality check for the forum if it likes it or not!!
I like PP, it's doing very good in my bro's Subaru Legacy. Sadly no 5W40 can find in retail store.
M1 0W40 does...
M1 0W40 does...
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Maybe they don't like the Top Tier gas standard? I get MUCH better gas mileage on ESSO (EM) than I do on Sunoco or Shell, both of which are Top Tier.
Can you share your gas mileage numbers for Top Tier gasoline versus gasoline that is not Top Tier?
Maybe they don't like the Top Tier gas standard? I get MUCH better gas mileage on ESSO (EM) than I do on Sunoco or Shell, both of which are Top Tier.
Can you share your gas mileage numbers for Top Tier gasoline versus gasoline that is not Top Tier?
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OVERKILL
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Originally Posted By: Built_Well
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Maybe they don't like the Top Tier gas standard? I get MUCH better gas mileage on ESSO (EM) than I do on Sunoco or Shell, both of which are Top Tier.
Can you share your gas mileage numbers for Top Tier gasoline versus gasoline that is not Top Tier?
I get ~230Km out of 40 dollars of Sunoco Ultra94. I get about the same running Shell Optimax Gold. I just hit 300Km on $40.00 of Esso 91. To me, that's a pretty significant difference.
And yes, the Lincoln is bad on gas, because I have a pretty heavy foot and I'm paying $1.45 a litre right now.
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Maybe they don't like the Top Tier gas standard? I get MUCH better gas mileage on ESSO (EM) than I do on Sunoco or Shell, both of which are Top Tier.
Can you share your gas mileage numbers for Top Tier gasoline versus gasoline that is not Top Tier?
I get ~230Km out of 40 dollars of Sunoco Ultra94. I get about the same running Shell Optimax Gold. I just hit 300Km on $40.00 of Esso 91. To me, that's a pretty significant difference.
And yes, the Lincoln is bad on gas, because I have a pretty heavy foot and I'm paying $1.45 a litre right now.
Interesting post Frank,love to someday see it all done..but yea
lots of variables when it comes to something like this..
lots of variables when it comes to something like this..
Hey, I'll use M1 .
Where can I get it at $0.99-$1.99 on sale/rebate ?
M1 0W40 Euro I like a lot but not at $6/qt.
An OCI for me is 12qt change + 1qt/600 miles in a 1985 911. You do the math...
Where can I get it at $0.99-$1.99 on sale/rebate ?
M1 0W40 Euro I like a lot but not at $6/qt.
An OCI for me is 12qt change + 1qt/600 miles in a 1985 911. You do the math...
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Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Built_Well
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Maybe they don't like the Top Tier gas standard? I get MUCH better gas mileage on ESSO (EM) than I do on Sunoco or Shell, both of which are Top Tier.
Can you share your gas mileage numbers for Top Tier gasoline versus gasoline that is not Top Tier?
I get ~230Km out of 40 dollars of Sunoco Ultra94. I get about the same running Shell Optimax Gold. I just hit 300Km on $40.00 of Esso 91. To me, that's a pretty significant difference.
And yes, the Lincoln is bad on gas, because I have a pretty heavy foot and I'm paying $1.45 a litre right now.
Hmm, that's interesting. I heard someone say on a different forum that they get 2 to 3 miles per gallon worse mileage when they fill up with Shell's Top Tier V-Power, but I didn't believe them. I guess I shouldn't have dismissed them so quickly.
Originally Posted By: Built_Well
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Maybe they don't like the Top Tier gas standard? I get MUCH better gas mileage on ESSO (EM) than I do on Sunoco or Shell, both of which are Top Tier.
Can you share your gas mileage numbers for Top Tier gasoline versus gasoline that is not Top Tier?
I get ~230Km out of 40 dollars of Sunoco Ultra94. I get about the same running Shell Optimax Gold. I just hit 300Km on $40.00 of Esso 91. To me, that's a pretty significant difference.
And yes, the Lincoln is bad on gas, because I have a pretty heavy foot and I'm paying $1.45 a litre right now.
Hmm, that's interesting. I heard someone say on a different forum that they get 2 to 3 miles per gallon worse mileage when they fill up with Shell's Top Tier V-Power, but I didn't believe them. I guess I shouldn't have dismissed them so quickly.
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If I had a 1985 911, I would change the oil and filter, Bosch platinum plugs, air filter, and anything else I could change, every time I started the engine. I would put a double lock on the garage and post an armed guard. I would not try to save even one cent on maintaining that treasure.
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