BrianWC,
Could a HDEO like Delo or Rotella clean off that sludge if you used it for the next 50,000 miles ??
Could a HDEO like Delo or Rotella clean off that sludge if you used it for the next 50,000 miles ??
Peak under my SAAB's valve cover (300K of images)
- Thread starter Raven18940
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This is in no way, shape, or form an argument to what you said about Mobil Clean. BUT, it's funny because according to Mobil, the Clean 5000 is good for 5000 miles OR the manufacturers recommended OCI, even if that is 10K. But I would think (and it's obvious you'd agree) if you have a turbo/oil raper than you'd want to NOT go over the 5K limit of Mobil Clean, even if 10K OCI's were recommened by the manufacturers..quote:
Originally posted by BrianWC:
No, I'll reserve that for Saab with their 10k oil changes in a turbo car which they were letting dealers put Mobil Clean as one option IIRC.
Nothing against MobilClean, just 10k intervals with it....
I can't really say, but I just don't like the idea of buying oil online for some reason. Now that I think about it, it's silly really as I buy just about everything else online.quote:
Originally posted by vad:
You can order it online.
Get a case or a couple of cases that would last a looong time.
This availability argument doesn't really cut it anymore.
He's not bashing Mobil clean, he's bashing SAAB for specing 10K oci's in the first place. There's simply no oil that can withstand the abuse of these engines for 10k, least not with a 4 quart sump. They just acted like there wasn't a problem. They didn't even require synthetic for a long time, only semi-synthetic.quote:
Originally posted by bighead:
This is in no way, shape, or form an argument to what you said about Mobil Clean. BUT, it's funny because according to Mobil, the Clean 5000 is good for 5000 miles OR the manufacturers recommended OCI, even if that is 10K. But I would think (and it's obvious you'd agree) if you have a turbo/oil raper than you'd want to NOT go over the 5K limit of Mobil Clean, even if 10K OCI's were recommened by the manufacturers..
Well, now I'm confused Vad. In my thread on how my engine was clean after 24,000 mi. on Mobil 1 you said:quote:
Originally posted by vad:
If the engine cleanliness is such a high priority for you, why woudn't you try Redline?quote:
Originally posted by Buford T. Justice:
Looks like a big difference between Raven's and Brian's engines. I am glad I am a Mobil 1 user now
It will surely keep your engine clean (possibly the cleanest than any other oil).
"It's a norm nowdays.
If you got anything but a pristine engine at that mileage with any oil, your engine is experiencing some kind of a problem."
Later on in my thead you said:
"You don't have to use Mobil 1 to keep an engine nice and clean.
You can run a lowly dino with 3-5K intervals with very good results.
With longer intervals the most synthetics would do a great job at that.
I now run GC in my engine and expect it to perform similarly to Redline."
So why are you now suggesting the highly expensive Redline to someone if engine cleanliness is a high priority for them, and telling them that Redline will possibly keep the engine cleaner than any other oil. You can't have it both ways.
I have a (new to me) 98 Saab 9000 with the 2.3L high-output turbo engine and about 105K miles.
For the first oil change, I went with Mobil 1 5W-30. I may try the M1 5W-30 EP next time, or even get a 5W-40 formulation like T&SUV. (Or even Rotella T synthetic).
From what I understand, my engine is not one of the ones prone to sludge - although I'm not 100% when the sludgy ones were produced (early 2000s I guess)
Not to highjack this thread, but does my oil choice sound good?
I'm looking to get maximum MPGs, and the car is driven pretty normally (not very hard on the car at all) I'll only put on about 6K miles a year.
For the first oil change, I went with Mobil 1 5W-30. I may try the M1 5W-30 EP next time, or even get a 5W-40 formulation like T&SUV. (Or even Rotella T synthetic).
From what I understand, my engine is not one of the ones prone to sludge - although I'm not 100% when the sludgy ones were produced (early 2000s I guess)
Not to highjack this thread, but does my oil choice sound good?
I'm looking to get maximum MPGs, and the car is driven pretty normally (not very hard on the car at all) I'll only put on about 6K miles a year.
First of all, Redline is not "highly" expensive.
You can order it today online, at $7 per quart.
Regularly priced Mobil 1 EP retailed at well over $6 per quart.
Secondly, If you value engine cleanliness above everything else, then Redline sounds like a top choice, especially in a "dirty" running or highly stressed engine.
For me the absolute engine cleanliness is not a priority and my engine is not very hard on oil anyways.
A dino with short intervals and basically any synthetic with prolonged OCI's would serve me just fine.
I hope I made myself clear enough.
Oh I know he wasn't bashing Mobil Clean 5000. It was more of me saying that Mobil should rethink their claims of it holding up to the manufacturers recommended OCI's, even if those were 10K in a turbo engine. So, basically I was bashing both Mobil and Saab at the same time LOL..quote:
Originally posted by Raven18940:
I can't really say, but I just don't like the idea of buying oil online for some reason. Now that I think about it, it's silly really as I buy just about everything else online.quote:
Originally posted by vad:
You can order it online.
Get a case or a couple of cases that would last a looong time.
This availability argument doesn't really cut it anymore.
He's not bashing Mobil clean, he's bashing SAAB for specing 10K oci's in the first place. There's simply no oil that can withstand the abuse of these engines for 10k, least not with a 4 quart sump. They just acted like there wasn't a problem. They didn't even require synthetic for a long time, only semi-synthetic.quote:
Originally posted by bighead:
This is in no way, shape, or form an argument to what you said about Mobil Clean. BUT, it's funny because according to Mobil, the Clean 5000 is good for 5000 miles OR the manufacturers recommended OCI, even if that is 10K. But I would think (and it's obvious you'd agree) if you have a turbo/oil raper than you'd want to NOT go over the 5K limit of Mobil Clean, even if 10K OCI's were recommened by the manufacturers..
You don't have to worry, your engine isn't one of the sludgers. The Trionic 5 engines have real piston rings and a proper oil pump. As for what oil, after reading a lot of UOA's on the saab 4 cyl turbo's it seems to me that a 40 weight is best for these engines. When I switched from 30 to 40 I noticed no change in mpg.
Wow. Well, I was planning on retorquing the head gasket bolts on my '01 9-5 this summer, I will make sure I have a camera on hand to take pics. I've used M1 0w-40 and recently switched to GC. We'll see how it does...
Corrado, you'll be fine. There have been a few folks with sludgy 9000/900 engines but nowhere near the level of 9-3/9-5s.
AS for the redline comment, for a NORMAL car, any dino would be fine. For a saab.....
An HDEO would be okay for 3k but...
AS for the redline comment, for a NORMAL car, any dino would be fine. For a saab.....
An HDEO would be okay for 3k but...
Corrado,
I have basically the same engine in my 900S without the turbo, and the car absolutely LOVES Delvac 5w-40 and Rotella 5w-40. I was pleasantly surprised by the Rotella, actually.
Right now I'm running Mobil 0w-30 I picked up on clearance at Kmart for.......$0.75/qt., plus a little VSOT and a smidgen of LC. Engine was kind of wild before I added the VSOT and LC to the mix, but those two really smoothed it out and seems to have pepped it up. LOVE IT!
1995 900S B234 NA motor; 202,000+ miles, all but 1.5 of them mine.
I have basically the same engine in my 900S without the turbo, and the car absolutely LOVES Delvac 5w-40 and Rotella 5w-40. I was pleasantly surprised by the Rotella, actually.
Right now I'm running Mobil 0w-30 I picked up on clearance at Kmart for.......$0.75/qt., plus a little VSOT and a smidgen of LC. Engine was kind of wild before I added the VSOT and LC to the mix, but those two really smoothed it out and seems to have pepped it up. LOVE IT!
1995 900S B234 NA motor; 202,000+ miles, all but 1.5 of them mine.
My 170K-mile '92 B234T is on Mobil1 0W-40 right now, burns basically nothing, UOA was good, but I'm expecting to go to the Rotella T Synthetic next time.
Figure I'll add my bit to this. 99 9-5 2.3LPT, 120k miles. I got it about 18 months ago, PO had reportedly had oil changes done every 3-4k by whatever quickie place was convenient, almost certainly with dino oil.
Ran two short OCIs with 15w40 Delo to flush the system out, then went to Rotella T 5w40 synthetic on 5k OCI, all with OEM SAAB or Mann filters. Did sludge check under valve cover and probed the pan - other than the timing cover, nothing was evident. Quite a bit of varnish, most certainly from the extensive use of cheap dino. Cam lobes show almost no wear, the Rotella synth seems to have nice persistence, the cold engine showing a good coating of oil on all the important bits. A few pics to illustrate:
Ran two short OCIs with 15w40 Delo to flush the system out, then went to Rotella T 5w40 synthetic on 5k OCI, all with OEM SAAB or Mann filters. Did sludge check under valve cover and probed the pan - other than the timing cover, nothing was evident. Quite a bit of varnish, most certainly from the extensive use of cheap dino. Cam lobes show almost no wear, the Rotella synth seems to have nice persistence, the cold engine showing a good coating of oil on all the important bits. A few pics to illustrate:
Yeouch. I wouldn't say that that that's great either. There's a problem w/ oilflow over there around the chain sprokets. Notice, and I see this on mine as well, how dry the intake side timing chain sprocket area is relatively dry. That bothers the *** outta me.
I'm a little wary of the coathanger method. I had some decent obstrution in my screen but I can't see how any of it would be detected by a coathanger. It doesn't take one of those big clumps to obstruct flow. The thing that bothers me about the timing chain area is my 1997 900 had basically the same engine yet I never had any buildup like that over there.
RTS is a great choice, btw. I actually don't think you could have gone wrong by leaving that delo in, either. Maybe not 5k but I don't think 3k would have been bad.
RTS is a great choice, btw. I actually don't think you could have gone wrong by leaving that delo in, either. Maybe not 5k but I don't think 3k would have been bad.
I'm new to the Saab world (long experience in BMWs, though), so I don't have a frame of reference to earlier iterations of the motor and their oiling situations. It would be interesting to compare oiling diagrams for the different versions and see if something changed to precipitate this.
There is no question, though, that the 9-5 T7 engine is much more prone to sludging than previous variants. That being said, sludge on the timing cover is the least of my concerns. While the coathanger method is admittedly far from perfect, I suspect if there were substantial amounts of sludge in the pan at least something other than clear oil would have turned up. Until I get around to pulling the pan, I will take comfort in the fact that I have a fully intact PCV system (original configuration, not one of the later ill-considered modifications) and replaced the head bolts with the old style ones and properly torqued them down.
The RTS seemed like the best fit for the engine, though I do believe the Delo would be fine for 3k OCIs. With the new turbo in I wanted to go synthetic to hopefully keep it alive longer than the original (I don't consider 110k miles good turbo life, but that's just me).
There is no question, though, that the 9-5 T7 engine is much more prone to sludging than previous variants. That being said, sludge on the timing cover is the least of my concerns. While the coathanger method is admittedly far from perfect, I suspect if there were substantial amounts of sludge in the pan at least something other than clear oil would have turned up. Until I get around to pulling the pan, I will take comfort in the fact that I have a fully intact PCV system (original configuration, not one of the later ill-considered modifications) and replaced the head bolts with the old style ones and properly torqued them down.
The RTS seemed like the best fit for the engine, though I do believe the Delo would be fine for 3k OCIs. With the new turbo in I wanted to go synthetic to hopefully keep it alive longer than the original (I don't consider 110k miles good turbo life, but that's just me).
110K on the G17 unit is actually very good, most only go 70K. I too an skeptical of the coat hanger method, mostly cause I'm pretty sure these engines have baffled oil pans. Also if you look at all our engines, the sludge/varnish is worst where oil flow is poorest. I don't think the oil pan has poor oil flow.
Yep, it is. There is a baffle in the oil pan which seperates the strainer/pickup from the rest of the oil pan. But I've seen some grisly pics of clumps of sludge down there. That's where the coathanger method comes from. It could conceivably find that stuff but not hard coked carbon from the turbo that's actually caught IN the screen.
When I removed my pan, it was clean BUT had several hard lumps of coaked oil floating around the bottom in addition to the screen.
Also, like Raven is saying, I had nothing anywhere in my engine as sludged as the bottom in, which I couldn't have seen from anywhere else.
When I removed my pan, it was clean BUT had several hard lumps of coaked oil floating around the bottom in addition to the screen.
Also, like Raven is saying, I had nothing anywhere in my engine as sludged as the bottom in, which I couldn't have seen from anywhere else.
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