Pat Goss' perspective on thicker oils

[gfh77665]

Until he at least mentions CAFE, I cannot take this guy serious. I have watched several of his videos and I never heard him mention CAFE even once.

I would like to ask him "Was the oil viscosity chosen for max engine longevity, or was it chosen to meet CAFE?" He will never address that.

He also hurts his credibility by repetitively referring to people as "morons" and "wackos". Unprofessional. I put Pat and Scotty in the same bin.

 

[buster]

Quote
[I put Pat and Scotty in the same bin.


They are not that far apart.

 

[Hall]

Originally Posted by hatt
Originally Posted by hallstevenson
Originally Posted by hatt
The engineers don't write the owners manual.

Nope, they just just give the technical writers the details to include in the manual. You think the writers get to pick what oil viscosity they write in the manual ?

Obviously the writers do pick the viscosity since manuals for different counties many times say different things. Engineering doesn't change when you cross a border.

Because different countries spec different oil weights, you believe the documentation staff freely pick and choose ? Can they make things up too ?

No, the engineers give them specs like this:

US / Canada - 5W-20
Central America / Caribbeans - XW-XX
South America - 10W-40
Europe - XW-XX
and so on....

 

[mahanddeem]

Wouldn't better (more) MPG mean less engine strain and better performance? Is CAFE objective completely against engine longevity?
Enlighten me if I'm mistaken.

 

[gfh77665]

Originally Posted by hallstevenson
No, the engineers give them specs like this:

US / Canada - 5W-20
Central America / Caribbeans - XW-XX
South America - 10W-40
Europe - XW-XX
and so on....


Exactly. Goss won't touch that.

 

[Revving2Redline]

Originally Posted by mahanddeem
Wouldn't better (more) MPG mean less engine strain and better performance? Is CAFE objective completely against engine longevity?
Enlighten me if I'm mistaken.


Good question. Is it less straining on timing chain or turbo too? If an acceptable loss is a timing chain or turbo every 150,000 miles or less then Im not the least bit concerned about engine efficiency. I would have to use Redline or MPT 0w20 as everything else is a joke from a performance / protection standpoint. They need to at least get back up to a minimum of 5 qt capacity if they want to really keep pushing this sewing machine oil on everyone.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by LubricatusObsess
Ah....so I have a racing truck engine!

I figure no harm, no foul, but PUP 0W-40 is pricier. Yes, there is plenty more noise about lack of lubrication beyond Uncle Tony's infamous video rant (where he doesn't even see the oil galley supply holes in the lifter bores). RamForumz is full of it.

By the way - what does acronym LSPI stand for? I searched, but only found the acronym. Low Sulfur Pre-Ignition?


Low Speed Preignition, an issue that, for all intents and purposes, is exclusive to low displacement forced-induction and high specific output direct injected engines.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by Marco620
Originally Posted by mahanddeem
Wouldn't better (more) MPG mean less engine strain and better performance? Is CAFE objective completely against engine longevity?
Enlighten me if I'm mistaken.


Good question. Is it less straining on timing chain or turbo too? If an acceptable loss is a timing chain or turbo every 150,000 miles or less then Im not the least bit concerned about engine efficiency. I would have to use Redline or MPT 0w20 as everything else is a joke from a performance / protection standpoint. They need to at least get back up to a minimum of 5 qt capacity if they want to really keep pushing this sewing machine oil on everyone.




Of course it does. Most modern engines run in a fuel efficient rpm range. 1500-2000 for the most part. That is if you drive normal.

 

[jcbcts]

By no means an expert but my guess is that the lighter weight oils would not retain film on the engine as well during down times so the difference would be protection at startup. At operating temperature the thinner oil would lead to better fuel economy but drip more completely down into the pan once engine is shut off causing more startup wear. That is the only logical thing I can come up with. The engineers may say that is a good trade off because wear difference won't be evident in the 1st 100k miles or so. An owner may say that trade off is not worth it.

 

[PimTac]

A tribofilm does not come off.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted by dwendt44
We all don't have new cars and drive like Grandma.
Higher mileage, some what worn engines benefit from thicker oil.
High performance also need thicker oil.

My 2¢

My 2 cents are, my 2007 Ford Fusion has 259K all on 20 wt oil and still runs very well with a clean engine at 10K OCIs.

 

[jurko]

Manual for my car (in signature) doesn't specify any multi viscosity oil. It just says use 50200/50500 approved oil.
Oil cap says, Use Castrol.

When I go to several oil majors websites and use their oil selection tool by imputing Year, Make, Model and Engine Type I get several recommendation of approved oils.

And they are:
ACEA C3 - 5W-30
or
ACEA B3/B4 - 0W-30, 0W-40 and 5W-40

I eventually settled on ACEA C3 5W-30 or any other 5W-30 oil which has SA% 3.0 and NOACK <10.

 

[ka9mnx]

Originally Posted by CT8
Fuel mpg credits.

Can manufacturers receive EPA credits for vehicles that are already sold and out the door?

 

[jurko]

Highlights of the Automotive Trends Report

 

[Starman2112]

Although some on here will still refuse to believe it, Pat is 100% right.

 

[bbhero]

When I see this guy Pat Goss...

I think he should be behind a counter flipping a pizza dough over his head... It just seems like that is really what he should do and he's a perfect fit for that.

 

[spasm3]

Originally Posted by bbhero
When I see this guy Pat Goss...

I think he should be behind a counter flipping a pizza dough over his head... It just seems like that is really what he should do and he's a perfect fit for that.

 

[LubricatusObsess]

Thanks, OVERKILL. I remember reading about LSPI some years ago and thought "meh". Apparently it is the new engine trend? Engine builders can't get rid of it via software?

 

[4WD]

Software in ECM that controls VVT and that comes back to viscosity compatibility for the hydraulic actuations.

Folks often say that same engine in country X runs thicker oil. True but if that thicker oil is in the owners manual for that engine … I'm going to place my bet that aforementioned system is programmed for it.

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted by 4WD
Of course we don't know if the ECM is different in those countries

When I last compared the power output of a few vehicles sold in both Australia and North America, they were identical in power, which tells me something. They also had identical engine design numbers. Ours is too small a market to have a special design, we get the standard issue engine.

Also in Australia, the local importers of American Ram trucks, Ford Mustangs, GM Acadia etc proudly claim that they roll off the exact same production line with the exact same engines as our American brothers. Only adjustment is for right hand drive, which is sometimes done here, and has nothing to do with the engines. This is a big selling point in Australia as many want to own American Steel. Why spend money to engineer out a selling point for no advantage? We have good fuel, we have modern oils, we are just like you in so many respects, no need to change the engine.

Yet Ford Australia put a high ZDDP 5W30 (WSS-M2C913-D ) oil in their Coyote V8's when they service them and that is not for a lack of 20 and 16 grade oil availability in Australia (the other myth put forward about my home market).

No, I don't work for Ford, GM, Toyota, Shell, Castrol etc, but I can apply Ockham's razor.

Here is a link to our (Australian) Camry Hybrid owners manual
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4890579/1

It lists: 0W16, 0W20, 5W20, 5W30, 10W30 and 15W40 as being acceptable by Toyota for its modern VVT Engine.