Please tell me say in a country like UAE would ever recommend a 0wt oil? The country never sees a weather temp under 60 degrees. On avg daytime temp is above 90 degrees year round. My exact engine in my car is used their, I have a copy of the owner's manual and it recommends a 5/40 all the way up to 15/40. Others from Asia have said they've used 20/50 which I have to in an old 88 honda crx. It died at 400k miles. Not really but burned a qt of oil a week
Pat Goss' perspective on thicker oils
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Originally Posted by CKN
I think a word he uses multiple times is very accurate for those who are arm chair engineers on this board.
There are lots of people on this chat board that have way more knowledge about tribology than Mr. Goss does.
I think a word he uses multiple times is very accurate for those who are arm chair engineers on this board.
There are lots of people on this chat board that have way more knowledge about tribology than Mr. Goss does.
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Pat is fighting against one of the biggest problems in America at the moment - the death of expertise. People believe with google they can "inform" themselves and make critical decisions on topics that in decades past we left up to the real experts. You know, people with PhDs who live and breathe a particular subject. Then the interweb came along and "Jim" with his C- average in prealgebra and his GED decided "climate change" isn't real because last fall it was 2 degrees F cooler than normal and the numbers do not make sense to him. Now it has extended to motor oil viscosities. Next people will be showing their heart surgeon a Youtube video instructing them how they'd like their surgery done.
Yes, I know the experts aren't always right but they are right a lot more than they are wrong and it still makes sense to follow the expert's opinions over you know, Jim the greeter at Walmart. The justifications for not following experts (the manufacturer engineers) are ludicrous - "This is just a guess, but engineers have little say in what oil is used"??? Really...do you want to rethink that statement? It is a WILD and counterintuitive guess about something you can not possibly have any knowledge about so why pose the statement? That's about as valid as, "I believe engineers make design decisions using a dartboard."
What you have said is true to a good extent.
However those with a massive agenda... With advanced degrees who disregard all evidence that goes against their "groupthink" are not all that trust worthy... This does happen.... And in atmosphere science it is standard operating procedure...
Pat is fighting against one of the biggest problems in America at the moment - the death of expertise. People believe with google they can "inform" themselves and make critical decisions on topics that in decades past we left up to the real experts. You know, people with PhDs who live and breathe a particular subject. Then the interweb came along and "Jim" with his C- average in prealgebra and his GED decided "climate change" isn't real because last fall it was 2 degrees F cooler than normal and the numbers do not make sense to him. Now it has extended to motor oil viscosities. Next people will be showing their heart surgeon a Youtube video instructing them how they'd like their surgery done.
Yes, I know the experts aren't always right but they are right a lot more than they are wrong and it still makes sense to follow the expert's opinions over you know, Jim the greeter at Walmart. The justifications for not following experts (the manufacturer engineers) are ludicrous - "This is just a guess, but engineers have little say in what oil is used"??? Really...do you want to rethink that statement? It is a WILD and counterintuitive guess about something you can not possibly have any knowledge about so why pose the statement? That's about as valid as, "I believe engineers make design decisions using a dartboard."
What you have said is true to a good extent.
However those with a massive agenda... With advanced degrees who disregard all evidence that goes against their "groupthink" are not all that trust worthy... This does happen.... And in atmosphere science it is standard operating procedure...
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Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by CKN
I think a word he uses multiple times is very accurate for those who are arm chair engineers on this board.
There are lots of people on this chat board that have way more knowledge about tribology than Mr. Goss does.
True-but they are in the very small minority.And please noticed I used the word "ARMCHAIR" as opposed to someone with advanced knowledge-either by education or tearing apart motors-or both.
THhs-below is an excellent post-
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Pat is fighting against one of the biggest problems in America at the moment - the death of expertise. People believe with google they can "inform" themselves and make critical decisions on topics that in decades past we left up to the real experts. You know, people with PhDs who live and breathe a particular subject. Then the interweb came along and "Jim" with his C- average in prealgebra and his GED decided "climate change" isn't real because last fall it was 2 degrees F cooler than normal and the numbers do not make sense to him. Now it has extended to motor oil viscosities. Next people will be showing their heart surgeon a Youtube video instructing them how they'd like their surgery done.
Yes, I know the experts aren't always right but they are right a lot more than they are wrong and it still makes sense to follow the expert's opinions over you know, Jim the greeter at Walmart. The justifications for not following experts (the manufacturer engineers) are ludicrous - "This is just a guess, but engineers have little say in what oil is used"??? Really...do you want to rethink that statement? It is a WILD and counterintuitive guess about something you can not possibly have any knowledge about so why pose the statement? That's about as valid as, "I believe engineers make design decisions using a dartboard."
Originally Posted by CKN
I think a word he uses multiple times is very accurate for those who are arm chair engineers on this board.
There are lots of people on this chat board that have way more knowledge about tribology than Mr. Goss does.
True-but they are in the very small minority.And please noticed I used the word "ARMCHAIR" as opposed to someone with advanced knowledge-either by education or tearing apart motors-or both.
THhs-below is an excellent post-
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Pat is fighting against one of the biggest problems in America at the moment - the death of expertise. People believe with google they can "inform" themselves and make critical decisions on topics that in decades past we left up to the real experts. You know, people with PhDs who live and breathe a particular subject. Then the interweb came along and "Jim" with his C- average in prealgebra and his GED decided "climate change" isn't real because last fall it was 2 degrees F cooler than normal and the numbers do not make sense to him. Now it has extended to motor oil viscosities. Next people will be showing their heart surgeon a Youtube video instructing them how they'd like their surgery done.
Yes, I know the experts aren't always right but they are right a lot more than they are wrong and it still makes sense to follow the expert's opinions over you know, Jim the greeter at Walmart. The justifications for not following experts (the manufacturer engineers) are ludicrous - "This is just a guess, but engineers have little say in what oil is used"??? Really...do you want to rethink that statement? It is a WILD and counterintuitive guess about something you can not possibly have any knowledge about so why pose the statement? That's about as valid as, "I believe engineers make design decisions using a dartboard."
Last edited:
Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by CKN
I think a word he uses multiple times is very accurate for those who are arm chair engineers on this board.
There are lots of people on this chat board that have way more knowledge about tribology than Mr. Goss does.
True-but they are in the very small minority.And please noticed I used the word "ARMCHAIR" as opposed to someone with advanced knowledge-either by education or tearing apart motors-or both.
So what points in Mr. Goss's video do you agree or disagree with?
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by CKN
I think a word he uses multiple times is very accurate for those who are arm chair engineers on this board.
There are lots of people on this chat board that have way more knowledge about tribology than Mr. Goss does.
True-but they are in the very small minority.And please noticed I used the word "ARMCHAIR" as opposed to someone with advanced knowledge-either by education or tearing apart motors-or both.
So what points in Mr. Goss's video do you agree or disagree with?
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by CKN
I think a word he uses multiple times is very accurate for those who are arm chair engineers on this board.
There are lots of people on this chat board that have way more knowledge about tribology than Mr. Goss does.
True-but they are in the very small minority.And please noticed I used the word "ARMCHAIR" as opposed to someone with advanced knowledge-either by education or tearing apart motors-or both.
So what points in Mr. Goss's video do you agree or disagree with?
I'm not going to pontificate on this Mr. Goss's video other than what I already said.
Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by CKN
I think a word he uses multiple times is very accurate for those who are arm chair engineers on this board.
There are lots of people on this chat board that have way more knowledge about tribology than Mr. Goss does.
True-but they are in the very small minority.And please noticed I used the word "ARMCHAIR" as opposed to someone with advanced knowledge-either by education or tearing apart motors-or both.
So what points in Mr. Goss's video do you agree or disagree with?
I'm not going to pontificate on this Mr. Goss's video other than what I already said.
Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
There are lots of people on this chat board that have way more knowledge about tribology than Mr. Goss does.
True-but they are in the very small minority.And please noticed I used the word "ARMCHAIR" as opposed to someone with advanced knowledge-either by education or tearing apart motors-or both.
So what points in Mr. Goss's video do you agree or disagree with?
I'm not going to pontificate on this Mr. Goss's video other than what I already said.
If you can't say one way or the other, then it's just another Armchair comment ... about Armchair comments, lol.
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
There are lots of people on this chat board that have way more knowledge about tribology than Mr. Goss does.
True-but they are in the very small minority.And please noticed I used the word "ARMCHAIR" as opposed to someone with advanced knowledge-either by education or tearing apart motors-or both.
So what points in Mr. Goss's video do you agree or disagree with?
I'm not going to pontificate on this Mr. Goss's video other than what I already said.
If you can't say one way or the other, then it's just another Armchair comment ... about Armchair comments, lol.
So here's a question
How many are using an off brand like Warren's stuff in a grade higher than recommended, instead of a high quality name brand in the recommended grade?
How many are using an off brand like Warren's stuff in a grade higher than recommended, instead of a high quality name brand in the recommended grade?
Me, Me !!!!
How about 2 grades thicker with a name brand, such as 15W40 Delo 400 in a Toyota Matrix?
More than one would be Toyota Matrix. Plural for Duramax?
More than one would be Toyota Matrix. Plural for Duramax?
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
So here's a question
How many are using an off brand like Warren's stuff in a grade higher than recommended, instead of a high quality name brand in the recommended grade?
If the off brand has the same certifications on the bottle it meets the same specs as the name brand oil with the same certs. Do you not trust the engineers all the sudden?
So here's a question
How many are using an off brand like Warren's stuff in a grade higher than recommended, instead of a high quality name brand in the recommended grade?
If the off brand has the same certifications on the bottle it meets the same specs as the name brand oil with the same certs. Do you not trust the engineers all the sudden?
I think Pat is mostly right but he can inflame people by calling them idiots, etc. I use the old Ford spec (5W-30) in my Mustangs (even the 2018) and just put 5W-40 Rotella syn in the 2000 Mustang today, because I've read in numerous places that slightly thicker oil is better for the modular engines and I had it in my shed. He has a point with VVT and lubrication, though.
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Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by CKN
I think a word he uses multiple times is very accurate for those who are arm chair engineers on this board.
There are lots of people on this chat board that have way more knowledge about tribology than Mr. Goss does.
True-but they are in the very small minority.And please noticed I used the word "ARMCHAIR" as opposed to someone with advanced knowledge-either by education or tearing apart motors-or both.
THhs-below is an excellent post-
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Pat is fighting against one of the biggest problems in America at the moment - the death of expertise. People believe with google they can "inform" themselves and make critical decisions on topics that in decades past we left up to the real experts. You know, people with PhDs who live and breathe a particular subject. Then the interweb came along and "Jim" with his C- average in prealgebra and his GED decided "climate change" isn't real because last fall it was 2 degrees F cooler than normal and the numbers do not make sense to him. Now it has extended to motor oil viscosities. Next people will be showing their heart surgeon a Youtube video instructing them how they'd like their surgery done.
Yes, I know the experts aren't always right but they are right a lot more than they are wrong and it still makes sense to follow the expert's opinions over you know, Jim the greeter at Walmart. The justifications for not following experts (the manufacturer engineers) are ludicrous - "This is just a guess, but engineers have little say in what oil is used"??? Really...do you want to rethink that statement? It is a WILD and counterintuitive guess about something you can not possibly have any knowledge about so why pose the statement? That's about as valid as, "I believe engineers make design decisions using a dartboard."
"That below" is not actually an "excellent post". It's a rant. He later called my engineer and computer friends tools working for a company that might care more about profits than anything else. Somehow not realizing this could describe an auto company, too. Lots of air with a strong opinion doesn't make one's argument "excellent".
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by CKN
I think a word he uses multiple times is very accurate for those who are arm chair engineers on this board.
There are lots of people on this chat board that have way more knowledge about tribology than Mr. Goss does.
True-but they are in the very small minority.And please noticed I used the word "ARMCHAIR" as opposed to someone with advanced knowledge-either by education or tearing apart motors-or both.
THhs-below is an excellent post-
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Pat is fighting against one of the biggest problems in America at the moment - the death of expertise. People believe with google they can "inform" themselves and make critical decisions on topics that in decades past we left up to the real experts. You know, people with PhDs who live and breathe a particular subject. Then the interweb came along and "Jim" with his C- average in prealgebra and his GED decided "climate change" isn't real because last fall it was 2 degrees F cooler than normal and the numbers do not make sense to him. Now it has extended to motor oil viscosities. Next people will be showing their heart surgeon a Youtube video instructing them how they'd like their surgery done.
Yes, I know the experts aren't always right but they are right a lot more than they are wrong and it still makes sense to follow the expert's opinions over you know, Jim the greeter at Walmart. The justifications for not following experts (the manufacturer engineers) are ludicrous - "This is just a guess, but engineers have little say in what oil is used"??? Really...do you want to rethink that statement? It is a WILD and counterintuitive guess about something you can not possibly have any knowledge about so why pose the statement? That's about as valid as, "I believe engineers make design decisions using a dartboard."
"That below" is not actually an "excellent post". It's a rant. He later called my engineer and computer friends tools working for a company that might care more about profits than anything else. Somehow not realizing this could describe an auto company, too. Lots of air with a strong opinion doesn't make one's argument "excellent".
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Some comments.
Pat Goss doesn't know much about tribology. It's been shown in many studies that higher viscosity gives larger MOFT, which is the only thing preventing metal-to-metal contact, especially in journal bearings. More MOFT means more protection from engine wear ... it's the most basic understanding of tribology which has been know for over 100 years.
His whole rant is basically misconception brainwashing, which he's been a victim of.
Post of the year here
Pot, Meet Kettle
Dunning-Kruger met reality- film at 11
Some comments.
Pat Goss doesn't know much about tribology. It's been shown in many studies that higher viscosity gives larger MOFT, which is the only thing preventing metal-to-metal contact, especially in journal bearings. More MOFT means more protection from engine wear ... it's the most basic understanding of tribology which has been know for over 100 years.
His whole rant is basically misconception brainwashing, which he's been a victim of.
Post of the year here
Pot, Meet Kettle
Dunning-Kruger met reality- film at 11
Originally Posted by HowAboutThis
Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by CKN
I think a word he uses multiple times is very accurate for those who are arm chair engineers on this board.
There are lots of people on this chat board that have way more knowledge about tribology than Mr. Goss does.
True-but they are in the very small minority.And please noticed I used the word "ARMCHAIR" as opposed to someone with advanced knowledge-either by education or tearing apart motors-or both.
THhs-below is an excellent post-
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Pat is fighting against one of the biggest problems in America at the moment - the death of expertise. People believe with google they can "inform" themselves and make critical decisions on topics that in decades past we left up to the real experts. You know, people with PhDs who live and breathe a particular subject. Then the interweb came along and "Jim" with his C- average in prealgebra and his GED decided "climate change" isn't real because last fall it was 2 degrees F cooler than normal and the numbers do not make sense to him. Now it has extended to motor oil viscosities. Next people will be showing their heart surgeon a Youtube video instructing them how they'd like their surgery done.
Yes, I know the experts aren't always right but they are right a lot more than they are wrong and it still makes sense to follow the expert's opinions over you know, Jim the greeter at Walmart. The justifications for not following experts (the manufacturer engineers) are ludicrous - "This is just a guess, but engineers have little say in what oil is used"??? Really...do you want to rethink that statement? It is a WILD and counterintuitive guess about something you can not possibly have any knowledge about so why pose the statement? That's about as valid as, "I believe engineers make design decisions using a dartboard."
"That below" is not actually an "excellent post". It's a rant. He later called my engineer and computer friends tools working for a company that might care more about profits than anything else. Somehow not realizing this could describe an auto company, too. Lots of air with a strong opinion doesn't make one's argument "excellent".
Missing the point again...yes, it COULD describe an auto company but it also COULD NOT - neither of us knows which makes your point meaningless. You are essentially saying I know of some examples where engineers can't be trusted so I guess all engineers can't be trusted. You also missed the point about what I said about your friends - I don't know anything about them but I made a sweeping and likely inaccurate comment about them based on my hypothetical limited world view on why would any engineer stay somewhere where accountants make design decisions - like you did earlier. I did that to make a point. I can't generalize about your friends just as you can't generalize about engineers not having a say in oil viscosity or whatever the [censored] you were trying to say. Yet, I somehow think you will continue to make sweeping generalization about things you can't possibly have knowledge about which means this is a total waste of time...
Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by CKN
I think a word he uses multiple times is very accurate for those who are arm chair engineers on this board.
There are lots of people on this chat board that have way more knowledge about tribology than Mr. Goss does.
True-but they are in the very small minority.And please noticed I used the word "ARMCHAIR" as opposed to someone with advanced knowledge-either by education or tearing apart motors-or both.
THhs-below is an excellent post-
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Pat is fighting against one of the biggest problems in America at the moment - the death of expertise. People believe with google they can "inform" themselves and make critical decisions on topics that in decades past we left up to the real experts. You know, people with PhDs who live and breathe a particular subject. Then the interweb came along and "Jim" with his C- average in prealgebra and his GED decided "climate change" isn't real because last fall it was 2 degrees F cooler than normal and the numbers do not make sense to him. Now it has extended to motor oil viscosities. Next people will be showing their heart surgeon a Youtube video instructing them how they'd like their surgery done.
Yes, I know the experts aren't always right but they are right a lot more than they are wrong and it still makes sense to follow the expert's opinions over you know, Jim the greeter at Walmart. The justifications for not following experts (the manufacturer engineers) are ludicrous - "This is just a guess, but engineers have little say in what oil is used"??? Really...do you want to rethink that statement? It is a WILD and counterintuitive guess about something you can not possibly have any knowledge about so why pose the statement? That's about as valid as, "I believe engineers make design decisions using a dartboard."
"That below" is not actually an "excellent post". It's a rant. He later called my engineer and computer friends tools working for a company that might care more about profits than anything else. Somehow not realizing this could describe an auto company, too. Lots of air with a strong opinion doesn't make one's argument "excellent".
Missing the point again...yes, it COULD describe an auto company but it also COULD NOT - neither of us knows which makes your point meaningless. You are essentially saying I know of some examples where engineers can't be trusted so I guess all engineers can't be trusted. You also missed the point about what I said about your friends - I don't know anything about them but I made a sweeping and likely inaccurate comment about them based on my hypothetical limited world view on why would any engineer stay somewhere where accountants make design decisions - like you did earlier. I did that to make a point. I can't generalize about your friends just as you can't generalize about engineers not having a say in oil viscosity or whatever the [censored] you were trying to say. Yet, I somehow think you will continue to make sweeping generalization about things you can't possibly have knowledge about which means this is a total waste of time...
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Originally Posted by CKN
True-but they are in the very small minority.And please noticed I used the word "ARMCHAIR" as opposed to someone with advanced knowledge-either by education or tearing apart motors-or both.
That's the last thing many of the armchair types want because the facts often conflict with their personal worldview and then they take it personally not realizing that some they are attempting to argue their points against ( not with facts but just volume, hyperbole and obfuscation joined with a per cheering section) are those who are professional members of these organizations who actually develop, review, change, validate many of these "standards' they try to quote back.
That's why its all entertainment- nobody will ever change it.
True-but they are in the very small minority.And please noticed I used the word "ARMCHAIR" as opposed to someone with advanced knowledge-either by education or tearing apart motors-or both.
That's the last thing many of the armchair types want because the facts often conflict with their personal worldview and then they take it personally not realizing that some they are attempting to argue their points against ( not with facts but just volume, hyperbole and obfuscation joined with a per cheering section) are those who are professional members of these organizations who actually develop, review, change, validate many of these "standards' they try to quote back.
That's why its all entertainment- nobody will ever change it.
Originally Posted by ABN_CBT_ENGR
Originally Posted by CKN
True-but they are in the very small minority.And please noticed I used the word "ARMCHAIR" as opposed to someone with advanced knowledge-either by education or tearing apart motors-or both.
That's the last thing many of the armchair types want because the facts often conflict with their personal worldview and then they take it personally not realizing that some they are attempting to argue their points against ( not with facts but just volume, hyperbole and obfuscation joined with a per cheering section) are those who are professional members of these organizations who actually develop, review, change, validate many of these "standards' they try to quote back.
That's why its all entertainment- nobody will ever change it.
I agree. But saying this is ( or can be) mostly entertainment on this board got someone banned before.
Originally Posted by CKN
True-but they are in the very small minority.And please noticed I used the word "ARMCHAIR" as opposed to someone with advanced knowledge-either by education or tearing apart motors-or both.
That's the last thing many of the armchair types want because the facts often conflict with their personal worldview and then they take it personally not realizing that some they are attempting to argue their points against ( not with facts but just volume, hyperbole and obfuscation joined with a per cheering section) are those who are professional members of these organizations who actually develop, review, change, validate many of these "standards' they try to quote back.
That's why its all entertainment- nobody will ever change it.
I agree. But saying this is ( or can be) mostly entertainment on this board got someone banned before.
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Pat is fighting against one of the biggest problems in America at the moment - the death of expertise. People believe with google they can "inform" themselves and make critical decisions on topics that in decades past we left up to the real experts. You know, people with PhDs who live and breathe a particular subject. Then the interweb came along and "Jim" with his C- average in prealgebra and his GED decided "climate change" isn't real because last fall it was 2 degrees F cooler than normal and the numbers do not make sense to him. "
I heard the Earth wasn't in an ice age any more, But then I failed pre algebra and the GED was impossible for me to get.
Pat is fighting against one of the biggest problems in America at the moment - the death of expertise. People believe with google they can "inform" themselves and make critical decisions on topics that in decades past we left up to the real experts. You know, people with PhDs who live and breathe a particular subject. Then the interweb came along and "Jim" with his C- average in prealgebra and his GED decided "climate change" isn't real because last fall it was 2 degrees F cooler than normal and the numbers do not make sense to him. "
I heard the Earth wasn't in an ice age any more, But then I failed pre algebra and the GED was impossible for me to get.
Originally Posted by userfriendly
How about 2 grades thicker with a name brand, such as 15W40 Delo 400 in a Toyota Matrix?
More than one would be Toyota Matrix. Plural for Duramax?
It would be totally fine, Toyota engines don't really care. I ran it in my 2004 Camry with over 250k on the clock. I sold the car with 375k. Didn't want to invest in a new CAT for CA emissions, otherwise I would have kept it until the wheels fell off
How about 2 grades thicker with a name brand, such as 15W40 Delo 400 in a Toyota Matrix?
More than one would be Toyota Matrix. Plural for Duramax?
It would be totally fine, Toyota engines don't really care. I ran it in my 2004 Camry with over 250k on the clock. I sold the car with 375k. Didn't want to invest in a new CAT for CA emissions, otherwise I would have kept it until the wheels fell off
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