Pat Goss' perspective on thicker oils

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Pat is fighting against one of the biggest problems in America at the moment - the death of expertise. People believe with google they can "inform" themselves and make critical decisions on topics that in decades past we left up to the real experts. You know, people with PhDs who live and breathe a particular subject. Then the interweb came along and "Jim" with his C- average in prealgebra and his GED decided "climate change" isn't real because last fall it was 2 degrees F cooler than normal and the numbers do not make sense to him. Now it has extended to motor oil viscosities. Next people will be showing their heart surgeon a Youtube video instructing them how they'd like their surgery done.


I agree with you in principle and speaking as one of those SME's- let me tell you a story similar in analogy that brings out the whole truth.

I have been doing VA (vibration analysis) and other predictive technologies almost since their entrance into general industry and in the beginning people were trained that "fault signal" equaled bearing defect- business listened, repair costs soared and the "old school millwrights' said
"show me the defect in this bearing"- there wasn't one. The technology looked foolish.

What we know today as "predictive maintenance' almost died on the vine in infancy because of claims that were "true" but advertised incorrectly, not applied properly and taken significantly out of context.

That's for the hard engineering focused sciences- now lets put the softer sciences ( medical, software, weather etc)- there is a greater element of 'pseudo science" and political influence driven by agenda, profit, ideology or all.

Both are correct to a point.

The simple truth is

legitimate science is the more inherently accurate and reliable but only when the accuracy of the claim is supported by the scientific method and other equally rigid standards and then only when used in context with the data and range as provided.

I could make the argument that "Jim" with his C- minus average has the intelligence and reasoning ability to realize that those "ivory tower types" don't always adhere to the high standards they claim to uphold and has a legitimate reason to challenge them on every point.

He certainly has the legitimate proof out there to validate his distrust in many different areas.

The experts fail when they pontificate beyond what they can legitimately produce and defend with actual data.

"Jim" fails when he refuses to listen to reason with critical thinking.

Theres plenty of examples of both out there
 
Originally Posted by hatt
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
So here's a question

How many are using an off brand like Warren's stuff in a grade higher than recommended, instead of a high quality name brand in the recommended grade?

If the off brand has the same certifications on the bottle it meets the same specs as the name brand oil with the same certs. Do you not trust the engineers all the sudden?


The spec approval means it meets a minimum, that's it.
 
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
The spec approval means it meets a minimum, that's it.

And "more of everything" makes it better?
 
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
The spec approval means it meets a minimum, that's it.

And "more of everything" makes it better?


Not more of everything, probably not. More of the right thing... Maybe?

Not to mention there are intangibles nobody think of. Like a Mercedes is made with better steel than a Mazda but most people just think its all just steel.
 
Originally Posted by CT8
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Pat is fighting against one of the biggest problems in America at the moment - the death of expertise. People believe with google they can "inform" themselves and make critical decisions on topics that in decades past we left up to the real experts. You know, people with PhDs who live and breathe a particular subject. Then the interweb came along and "Jim" with his C- average in prealgebra and his GED decided "climate change" isn't real because last fall it was 2 degrees F cooler than normal and the numbers do not make sense to him. "

I heard the Earth wasn't in an ice age any more, But then I failed pre algebra and the GED was impossible for me to get.


That's purely observational and obvious - but thanks - I guess I don't have to worry about you engineering anything and people getting hurt. It's a win for everyone!
 
Originally Posted by ABN_CBT_ENGR
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Some comments.

Pat Goss doesn't know much about tribology. It's been shown in many studies that higher viscosity gives larger MOFT, which is the only thing preventing metal-to-metal contact, especially in journal bearings. More MOFT means more protection from engine wear ... it's the most basic understanding of tribology which has been know for over 100 years.

His whole rant is basically misconception brainwashing, which he's been a victim of.


Post of the year here

Pot, Meet Kettle

Dunning-Kruger met reality- film at 11


lol.gif
... so tell us why you agree or disagree with Mr Goss. I doubt you know any more about tribology than he does. Just a big straw producer with zero credibility or anything to back up any claims.
 
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix


lol.gif
... so tell us why you agree or disagree with Mr Goss. I doubt you know much more about tribology than he does.


What you doubt is of no concern since you yourself have virtually no legitimate knowledge in tribology or any other mechanical engineering field as evidenced by most of your posts. You cannot even get the basics right- much less anything more than regurgitating writings of others then engaging in a repetitive wall of words because you seem to have no further substance.

You cannot and will not directly engage in specifics as I have proven time and again for the reason we both know- you simply cant. You just talk in circles. I keep asking you to point out errors then enlighten with the 'real truth" and you keep ducking and running until your cheering section yells loud enough. That has been clearly demonstrated numerous times.

But to your point as much as can legitimately be said from a non interactive unscripted dissertation where clarification cannot be directly addressed...

Vernacular and grammar aside, his scope and basic position is empirically correct provided he is taken in context with the general accepted best manufacturing practices used globally. His comments are specific to what is regarded as standard production engines.

That being said, there are tolerances and ranges in everything manufactured and many products will fit over those ranges with little to no effect ( beneficial or not)

There are also various modifications that change all those parameters.

Individual results will also vary due to operational differences.

So, here's another chance for you to show what the error is, why it is, what the correct answer is...

(queue the endless wall of words)
 
Originally Posted by ABN_CBT_ENGR
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix


lol.gif
... so tell us why you agree or disagree with Mr Goss. I doubt you know much more about tribology than he does.


What you doubt is of no concern since you yourself have virtually no legitimate knowledge in tribology or any other mechanical engineering field as evidenced by most of your posts. You cannot even get the basics right- much less anything more than regurgitating writings of others then engaging in a repetitive wall of words because you seem to have no further substance.

You cannot and will not directly engage in specifics as I have proven time and again for the reason we both know- you simply cant. You just talk in circles. I keep asking you to point out errors then enlighten with the 'real truth" and you keep ducking and running until your cheering section yells loud enough. That has been clearly demonstrated numerous times.

But to your point as much as can legitimately be said from a non interactive unscripted dissertation where clarification cannot be directly addressed...

Vernacular and grammar aside, his scope and basic position is empirically correct provided he is taken in context with the general accepted best manufacturing practices used globally. His comments are specific to what is regarded as standard production engines.

That being said, there are tolerances and ranges in everything manufactured and many products will fit over those ranges with little to no effect ( beneficial or not)

There are also various modifications that change all those parameters.

Individual results will also vary due to operational differences.

So, here's another chance for you to show what the error is, why it is, what the correct answer is...

(queue the endless wall of words)


Like I said ... you don't know much about tribology (otherwise you'd participate), or other subjects that you've tired to participate in. ... and just go off on every tangent possible to skirt any focused point. You couldn't have a real engineering technical discussion without spinning and making straw bails at hyper speed, lol.
 
"Missing the point again...yes, it COULD describe an auto company but it also COULD NOT - neither of us knows which makes your point meaningless. You are essentially saying I know of some examples where engineers can't be trusted so I guess all engineers can't be trusted. You also missed the point about what I said about your friends - I don't know anything about them but I made a sweeping and likely inaccurate comment about them based on my hypothetical limited world view on why would any engineer stay somewhere where accountants make design decisions - like you did earlier. I did that to make a point. I can't generalize about your friends just as you can't generalize about engineers not having a say in oil viscosity or whatever the [censored] you were trying to say. Yet, I somehow think you will continue to make sweeping generalization about things you can't possibly have knowledge about which means this is a total waste of time..."

Did you even read what I initially wrote? Lol I'll let you know when the 5w30 in my car that wants 0w20 but says I can use conventional 5w30 or 5w40 if I can't find 0w20 blows up.
 
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
The spec approval means it meets a minimum, that's it.

And "more of everything" makes it better?

I think you misspelled 'better of everything' makes it gooder.....lol
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top