^The Duralast Gold.... I concur.
The new Optima's aren't of old.
The new Optima's aren't of old.
Optima Batteries.... who makes them?
- Thread starter jeepman3071
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Hi jeepman3071, Optima is owned by Johnson Controls and we manufacture all of our own batteries in our own facility and they are the only batteries produced there. We never re-label or re-spec our batteries for any of our retailer partners. Unlike many of the AGM products on the market today, we do not use recycled lead from old batteries in any of our products and we never have.
While I understand individual experiences may vary, many of the “bad” batteries returned to us now under warranty are just deeply-discharged and work fine, when properly-recharged. My wife's truck starts every day on one of those “dead” YellowTops.
[email protected], do you recall the voltage of either of the Optimas your returned under warranty or the original battery you replaced with an Optima? What were the circumstances surrounding your issues?
Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.pinterest.com/optimabatteries
While I understand individual experiences may vary, many of the “bad” batteries returned to us now under warranty are just deeply-discharged and work fine, when properly-recharged. My wife's truck starts every day on one of those “dead” YellowTops.
[email protected], do you recall the voltage of either of the Optimas your returned under warranty or the original battery you replaced with an Optima? What were the circumstances surrounding your issues?
Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.pinterest.com/optimabatteries
Originally Posted By: OptimaJim
Hi jeepman3071, Optima is owned by Johnson Controls and we manufacture all of our own batteries in our own facility and they are the only batteries produced there. We never re-label or re-spec our batteries for any of our retailer partners. Unlike many of the AGM products on the market today, we do not use recycled lead from old batteries in any of our products and we never have.
While I understand individual experiences may vary, many of the “bad” batteries returned to us now under warranty are just deeply-discharged and work fine, when properly-recharged. My wife's truck starts every day on one of those “dead” YellowTops.
[email protected], do you recall the voltage of either of the Optimas your returned under warranty or the original battery you replaced with an Optima? What were the circumstances surrounding your issues?
Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.pinterest.com/optimabatteries
I appreciate the response but neither of the batteries were "deeply discharged". Both alternators tested good, and both times the batteries had a dead cell and would not take a charge. The volt gauge on my Jeep spiked to 19 volts and the gauges went crazy. Both batteries were working fine the day before, no interior lights were left on, etc, and the batteries failed to produce any power the next start. By no power I mean even the interior lights would not turn on. I tried reviving both batteries with a trickle charger and with jumper cables hooked to a known good battery overnight. Both batteries tested 0% charge at the autoparts store.
I would completely understand if the battery was constantly under heavy load, or had been deeply discharged, but these certainly had not, which is why I'm disappointed.
Hi jeepman3071, Optima is owned by Johnson Controls and we manufacture all of our own batteries in our own facility and they are the only batteries produced there. We never re-label or re-spec our batteries for any of our retailer partners. Unlike many of the AGM products on the market today, we do not use recycled lead from old batteries in any of our products and we never have.
While I understand individual experiences may vary, many of the “bad” batteries returned to us now under warranty are just deeply-discharged and work fine, when properly-recharged. My wife's truck starts every day on one of those “dead” YellowTops.
[email protected], do you recall the voltage of either of the Optimas your returned under warranty or the original battery you replaced with an Optima? What were the circumstances surrounding your issues?
Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.pinterest.com/optimabatteries
I appreciate the response but neither of the batteries were "deeply discharged". Both alternators tested good, and both times the batteries had a dead cell and would not take a charge. The volt gauge on my Jeep spiked to 19 volts and the gauges went crazy. Both batteries were working fine the day before, no interior lights were left on, etc, and the batteries failed to produce any power the next start. By no power I mean even the interior lights would not turn on. I tried reviving both batteries with a trickle charger and with jumper cables hooked to a known good battery overnight. Both batteries tested 0% charge at the autoparts store.
I would completely understand if the battery was constantly under heavy load, or had been deeply discharged, but these certainly had not, which is why I'm disappointed.
I'll throw a vote in for Odyssey. I don't know of a better, longer-lasting, more durable, better-performing battery out there.
jeepman3071, I shared your post with one of our engineers and he asked if you have determined why your voltage gauge spiked to 19 volts or if you've determined the battery caused that spike, how that was possible? What voltage range does your alternator typically operate in?
Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.pinterest.com/optimabatteries
Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.pinterest.com/optimabatteries
I had a 51R back in 2006 when they had numerous problems with them. Optima stopped production on the 51R for a few years and when they reintroduced the 51R the CCA dropped from 500CCA to what is now 450CCA. Mine died in less than a year and Optima refused to honor the warranty. They kept insisting that my vehicle had a problem. They were defensive and left a bitter taste with me.
I bought one for my 89 Accord (Red Top) in 2002 and it lasted six years. I replaced it with a new one in 2008 and it was still good when I wrecked the car in 2012. I never had a battery last more than three years before switching to Optima and I drove the car from the time it was new. I have been seeing nothing but negative comments about Optima batteries on this web site, but my anecdotal evidence seems to conflict with others.'
Hi Jim,
The alternator typically operates in the 13-14 volt range according to the gauge. I was driving on the highway and my "check gauges" light came on. I looked down and saw the volt gauge pegged at 19 volts. I immediately pulled over and shut down the jeep thinking the alternator was bad. The charging system voltage is regulated by the PCM in this vehicle, but I still thought it was the alternator. I brought the alternator to two parts stores, and both times it tested fine. I reinstalled it, and tried starting the Jeep. I had absolutely no power to anything, even the interior. That is when I had the battery tested and it came back as 0% charge. This was odd to me since I had just been driving it on the highway without issue and it started perfectly that morning like always. A new Optima solved the issue and it has been fine knock on wood for another year so far.
My friend also has an Optima yellow top. He bought his about a year after I bought mine. The same thing happened to him. His vehicle started fine, he drove to his destination, shut it off for a few minutes, then upon restarting he had no power to anything, even the interior lights. I feared he had the same problem as mine so I took it to the autoparts store. The guy was kind of rude and at first refused to warranty the battery even though we had the receipt and it was only a year and 3 months old. He suggested trickle charging it or connecting it overnight to a known good battery with jumper cables.
I first connected it overnight to a good battery, and the next day it was unchanged. Also tried a trickle charger for half the day and that did nothing as well. They exchanged it after that.
I find it interesting that both were yellow tops. I know of three Optima batteries. My yellow top, my friend's yellow top, and my uncle's red top that were all purchased around the same time. Both the yellow tops failed between a year and a year and a half, and the red top is still going at almost 3 years old.
The alternator typically operates in the 13-14 volt range according to the gauge. I was driving on the highway and my "check gauges" light came on. I looked down and saw the volt gauge pegged at 19 volts. I immediately pulled over and shut down the jeep thinking the alternator was bad. The charging system voltage is regulated by the PCM in this vehicle, but I still thought it was the alternator. I brought the alternator to two parts stores, and both times it tested fine. I reinstalled it, and tried starting the Jeep. I had absolutely no power to anything, even the interior. That is when I had the battery tested and it came back as 0% charge. This was odd to me since I had just been driving it on the highway without issue and it started perfectly that morning like always. A new Optima solved the issue and it has been fine knock on wood for another year so far.
My friend also has an Optima yellow top. He bought his about a year after I bought mine. The same thing happened to him. His vehicle started fine, he drove to his destination, shut it off for a few minutes, then upon restarting he had no power to anything, even the interior lights. I feared he had the same problem as mine so I took it to the autoparts store. The guy was kind of rude and at first refused to warranty the battery even though we had the receipt and it was only a year and 3 months old. He suggested trickle charging it or connecting it overnight to a known good battery with jumper cables.
I first connected it overnight to a good battery, and the next day it was unchanged. Also tried a trickle charger for half the day and that did nothing as well. They exchanged it after that.
I find it interesting that both were yellow tops. I know of three Optima batteries. My yellow top, my friend's yellow top, and my uncle's red top that were all purchased around the same time. Both the yellow tops failed between a year and a year and a half, and the red top is still going at almost 3 years old.
I have a red top that's still performing well after 7 years. But this isn't the first forum with a thread with Optimum batt. failures. I'm not sure I would replace it with another Opt. Batt or something else.
OptimaJim-
Its a very cool thing to see someone from the company participating in this forum, and I hope that your seeing our issues results in a return to the prime form that the Optima battery once enjoyed. Please be aware that I'm not 'disgrunted,' looking for a refund, or anything like that, I'm just trying to be informative.
My Optima failures have not been "deep discharge" issues. They've been a sudden voltage drop and refusal to re-charge fully, either in-vehicle or on a charger. Typically the "lost" voltage is around 2 volts, suspiciously close to one of the 6 internal cells turning from a battery into a resistor :-( One nice thing is that I've never had an Optima drop dead from one start to the next the way modern flooded cells sometimes do. The dead Optima would usually gimp along at ~10.5 to 11 volts open circuit for days or weeks resulting in slow cranking, but still (usually) able to start the vehicle until I could replace it. Load testing at the store would indicate failure, though, because the battery couldn't sustain cranking current for more than a few seconds.
The first couple of Optimas I picked up in the 1990s lasted SIGNIFICANTLY longer than any other battery I'd owned here in hot central Texas, and SIGNIFICANTLY outlasted their warranty. Amazing performers. But in recent years, I've had failures at between 2 and 4 years of use, pretty typical of much less expensive generic Interstate or other brand flooded-cell batteries. I've still got one in wifey's PT cruiser, we'll see how long it goes. All my Optimas have been "red top" batteries, by the way.
I'm sorry to bear bad news, but my recent (past 5 years or so and 3-4 batteries) experiences have driven me away from Optima to Deka or Enersys batteries until I have reliable evidence that the Optima is back to form. The price of all these batteries is HIGH in my opinion. $200.00 plus is a moderately major investment for a limited life car part. I'm willing to spend for a premium battery for my vehicles, but I really do want performance and longevity worth that premium. My last 3 (maybe 4 depending on how the one in the Cruiser goes) Optimas just haven't passed that metric.
Thanks for listening, that just earned some respect for Johnson Controls from this reader, even if I'm not ready to trust the product again just yet!
-Steve
Its a very cool thing to see someone from the company participating in this forum, and I hope that your seeing our issues results in a return to the prime form that the Optima battery once enjoyed. Please be aware that I'm not 'disgrunted,' looking for a refund, or anything like that, I'm just trying to be informative.
My Optima failures have not been "deep discharge" issues. They've been a sudden voltage drop and refusal to re-charge fully, either in-vehicle or on a charger. Typically the "lost" voltage is around 2 volts, suspiciously close to one of the 6 internal cells turning from a battery into a resistor :-( One nice thing is that I've never had an Optima drop dead from one start to the next the way modern flooded cells sometimes do. The dead Optima would usually gimp along at ~10.5 to 11 volts open circuit for days or weeks resulting in slow cranking, but still (usually) able to start the vehicle until I could replace it. Load testing at the store would indicate failure, though, because the battery couldn't sustain cranking current for more than a few seconds.
The first couple of Optimas I picked up in the 1990s lasted SIGNIFICANTLY longer than any other battery I'd owned here in hot central Texas, and SIGNIFICANTLY outlasted their warranty. Amazing performers. But in recent years, I've had failures at between 2 and 4 years of use, pretty typical of much less expensive generic Interstate or other brand flooded-cell batteries. I've still got one in wifey's PT cruiser, we'll see how long it goes. All my Optimas have been "red top" batteries, by the way.
I'm sorry to bear bad news, but my recent (past 5 years or so and 3-4 batteries) experiences have driven me away from Optima to Deka or Enersys batteries until I have reliable evidence that the Optima is back to form. The price of all these batteries is HIGH in my opinion. $200.00 plus is a moderately major investment for a limited life car part. I'm willing to spend for a premium battery for my vehicles, but I really do want performance and longevity worth that premium. My last 3 (maybe 4 depending on how the one in the Cruiser goes) Optimas just haven't passed that metric.
Thanks for listening, that just earned some respect for Johnson Controls from this reader, even if I'm not ready to trust the product again just yet!
-Steve
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
...One nice thing is that I've never had an Optima drop dead from one start to the next the way modern flooded cells sometimes do. The dead Optima would usually gimp along at ~10.5 to 11 volts open circuit for days or weeks resulting in slow cranking, but still (usually) able to start the vehicle until I could replace it...
That is EXACTLY what I liked about my Optima battery. I had been through so many batteries in the Honda by 2008 I figured I had a bad starter, or something else, because I kept getting slow starts. I finally had the battery checked and that was the cause. I really hope to be able to buy this type of battery again in the future.
...One nice thing is that I've never had an Optima drop dead from one start to the next the way modern flooded cells sometimes do. The dead Optima would usually gimp along at ~10.5 to 11 volts open circuit for days or weeks resulting in slow cranking, but still (usually) able to start the vehicle until I could replace it...
That is EXACTLY what I liked about my Optima battery. I had been through so many batteries in the Honda by 2008 I figured I had a bad starter, or something else, because I kept getting slow starts. I finally had the battery checked and that was the cause. I really hope to be able to buy this type of battery again in the future.
Quote:
Typically the "lost" voltage is around 2 volts, suspiciously close to one of the 6 internal cells turning from a battery into a resistor :-( One nice thing is that I've never had an Optima drop dead from one start to the next the way modern flooded cells sometimes do. The dead Optima would usually gimp along at ~10.5 to 11 volts open circuit for days or weeks resulting in slow cranking, but still (usually) able to start the vehicle until I could replace it.
I run my radar detector in tech mode, which turns it into an always-on 3 digit digital voltmeter, in the absence of a radar signal. Yeah, the red-top Optimas always I ran always failed with low voltage (11.2V) but would still start the car. Wife's car, same thing. But, they failed this way in about 12-18 months. First battery, I drove for many, many months after that, thinking it must be a bad starter because charging voltage was fine, and I wasn't running the radar detector in tech mode back then. Electrical gremlins (detector thrown into a very strange factory-self test mode) finally convinced me to change the battery. Electrical gremlins went away.
Now running a flooded-cell Costco battery. 12.6 to 12.8V when I turn off the key at the end of the day, 15 months in. I have one of those HF conductance testers now too, but didn't have it around when I had the Optimas.
Typically the "lost" voltage is around 2 volts, suspiciously close to one of the 6 internal cells turning from a battery into a resistor :-( One nice thing is that I've never had an Optima drop dead from one start to the next the way modern flooded cells sometimes do. The dead Optima would usually gimp along at ~10.5 to 11 volts open circuit for days or weeks resulting in slow cranking, but still (usually) able to start the vehicle until I could replace it.
I run my radar detector in tech mode, which turns it into an always-on 3 digit digital voltmeter, in the absence of a radar signal. Yeah, the red-top Optimas always I ran always failed with low voltage (11.2V) but would still start the car. Wife's car, same thing. But, they failed this way in about 12-18 months. First battery, I drove for many, many months after that, thinking it must be a bad starter because charging voltage was fine, and I wasn't running the radar detector in tech mode back then. Electrical gremlins (detector thrown into a very strange factory-self test mode) finally convinced me to change the battery. Electrical gremlins went away.
Now running a flooded-cell Costco battery. 12.6 to 12.8V when I turn off the key at the end of the day, 15 months in. I have one of those HF conductance testers now too, but didn't have it around when I had the Optimas.
Hi Kool1, I'm sorry to hear you had a negative experience with our product. I have read similar comments from other folks who suggested we stopped making a specific group size at some point, but whenever I've asked for any information to support that, the best I've been able to get is links to comments other people have made on other message boards. If you have any documentation from us that indicates we had issues or stopped production on any battery size, I'd really appreciate it if you could share it with me, as no one here has any knowledge of such an issue. What were the circumstances surrounding the issues you had with your battery?
jeepman3071, we typically recommend a range of about 13.7-14.7 volts for alternator output, so your's doesn't sound unusual except for the spike to 19 volts and unless output of less than 13.7 volts is normal for you. As an energy storage device, a battery is only capable of delivering the voltage it contains, which wouldn't be anywhere near 19 volts. I'm not an expert on charging systems, so I can't explain why your's would spike to 19 volts and I don't know how long your's was operating that way, but I can tell you that voltage level will damage a battery.
Likewise, a battery's job is to start a vehicle and supply additional power if the demand of the vehicle exceeds the output of the charging system. If the battery started your friend's vehicle, the charging system should've then been able to power the electrical system while the engine was running. I understand the end result in both instances is a replaced battery, but I would be interested in your insight on why the battery should've been supplying power to your friend's vehicle after the engine was started.
Steve, I really appreciate your feedback (as well as everyone else's) and I do share everyone's comments with folks here internally. If any battery fails from a manufacturing defect, it is likely to do so well within the first year of use, if not the first month. While I understand you guys have had some issues with your batteries, I can't begin to explain what we see on our end. The volume of discharge-only (meaning they work fine when charged) batteries that come through our warranty system is alarming to say the least. So much so, that Optima sent me out on the forums to explain how to recover deeply-discharged batteries and produced videos describing the same.
One thing I can tell you is that the issue of discharge-only batteries mistakenly being returned under warranty is not limited to Optima and is only going to increase as start/stop technology brings more AGM products into the market. Some other brands and manufacturers have dealt with this by simply voiding the warranty on their batteries, if they are found to be discharged below a minimum voltage level. That may work fine for low volume battery brands, but that is not an acceptable solution for us or the industry as a whole.
The key to long battery life, regardless of brand, is proper voltage maintenance. Whenever any battery is discharged below 12.4 volts and left in that state, suflation begins to form, which diminishes both capacity and lifespan. One of the most-common ways this happen is when someone jump-starts a car with a discharged battery. Unless that battery is fully-recharged with a battery charger, the owner will probably continue a cycle of dead batteries and jump-starts, until either the battery or alternator needs to be replaced. That makes a quality battery maintenance device an excellent investment, especially for vehicles that don't see regular use.
Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.pinterest.com/optimabatteries
jeepman3071, we typically recommend a range of about 13.7-14.7 volts for alternator output, so your's doesn't sound unusual except for the spike to 19 volts and unless output of less than 13.7 volts is normal for you. As an energy storage device, a battery is only capable of delivering the voltage it contains, which wouldn't be anywhere near 19 volts. I'm not an expert on charging systems, so I can't explain why your's would spike to 19 volts and I don't know how long your's was operating that way, but I can tell you that voltage level will damage a battery.
Likewise, a battery's job is to start a vehicle and supply additional power if the demand of the vehicle exceeds the output of the charging system. If the battery started your friend's vehicle, the charging system should've then been able to power the electrical system while the engine was running. I understand the end result in both instances is a replaced battery, but I would be interested in your insight on why the battery should've been supplying power to your friend's vehicle after the engine was started.
Steve, I really appreciate your feedback (as well as everyone else's) and I do share everyone's comments with folks here internally. If any battery fails from a manufacturing defect, it is likely to do so well within the first year of use, if not the first month. While I understand you guys have had some issues with your batteries, I can't begin to explain what we see on our end. The volume of discharge-only (meaning they work fine when charged) batteries that come through our warranty system is alarming to say the least. So much so, that Optima sent me out on the forums to explain how to recover deeply-discharged batteries and produced videos describing the same.
One thing I can tell you is that the issue of discharge-only batteries mistakenly being returned under warranty is not limited to Optima and is only going to increase as start/stop technology brings more AGM products into the market. Some other brands and manufacturers have dealt with this by simply voiding the warranty on their batteries, if they are found to be discharged below a minimum voltage level. That may work fine for low volume battery brands, but that is not an acceptable solution for us or the industry as a whole.
The key to long battery life, regardless of brand, is proper voltage maintenance. Whenever any battery is discharged below 12.4 volts and left in that state, suflation begins to form, which diminishes both capacity and lifespan. One of the most-common ways this happen is when someone jump-starts a car with a discharged battery. Unless that battery is fully-recharged with a battery charger, the owner will probably continue a cycle of dead batteries and jump-starts, until either the battery or alternator needs to be replaced. That makes a quality battery maintenance device an excellent investment, especially for vehicles that don't see regular use.
Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.pinterest.com/optimabatteries
I bought a used Redtop Optima (one of the old Made in USA ones) that finally died. Battery charger read 6 volts and refused to charge.
Anyone know when they stopped making Optima batteries in the US? I'd like to get an appox. age on this battery.
Anyone know when they stopped making Optima batteries in the US? I'd like to get an appox. age on this battery.
Is it bad for the battery to vent/hiss when charging? I have a one-year old Optima Redtop that got discharged from a faulty car stereo amp. It wouldn't start so I had to roll-start it to get home and threw it on an automatic charger @ 10 amps. Good or bad?
here is how i got my optima red top 34/75. i found it on the street a few years ago. took it home and checked it out and put it on a charger. left it in my garage for about 2 or 3 years and charged it every once in a while.
i decided to put it in my Sub as the Interstate in it seems to be getting weak. it fit fine other than the terminal being reversed,but the wires are long enough to connect.
the battery, if i can decifer the code correctly was made in 01. so far it been working fine for the month it been in the Sub.
i decided to put it in my Sub as the Interstate in it seems to be getting weak. it fit fine other than the terminal being reversed,but the wires are long enough to connect.
the battery, if i can decifer the code correctly was made in 01. so far it been working fine for the month it been in the Sub.
Problem is with these batteries is-
1) Overkill for most products (why would I put one is a base Cavalier)
2) Most people do not know how to take care of these batteries, let alone normal batteries.
Both my Uncle (sliverado) and buddy (accord) have red tops, and each of them have them still doing just fine at 5 and 3 years old.
I always took care of the Delco battery i my car, and got nearly 8 years out of it. I bet I could get 7-10 years out of a red top too...
1) Overkill for most products (why would I put one is a base Cavalier)
2) Most people do not know how to take care of these batteries, let alone normal batteries.
Both my Uncle (sliverado) and buddy (accord) have red tops, and each of them have them still doing just fine at 5 and 3 years old.
I always took care of the Delco battery i my car, and got nearly 8 years out of it. I bet I could get 7-10 years out of a red top too...
Originally Posted By: wirelessF
Is it bad for the battery to vent/hiss when charging? I have a one-year old Optima Redtop that got discharged from a faulty car stereo amp. It wouldn't start so I had to roll-start it to get home and threw it on an automatic charger @ 10 amps. Good or bad?
Toast.
Is it bad for the battery to vent/hiss when charging? I have a one-year old Optima Redtop that got discharged from a faulty car stereo amp. It wouldn't start so I had to roll-start it to get home and threw it on an automatic charger @ 10 amps. Good or bad?
Toast.
Originally Posted By: OptimaJim
jeepman3071, we typically recommend a range of about 13.7-14.7 volts for alternator output, so your's doesn't sound unusual except for the spike to 19 volts and unless output of less than 13.7 volts is normal for you. As an energy storage device, a battery is only capable of delivering the voltage it contains, which wouldn't be anywhere near 19 volts. I'm not an expert on charging systems, so I can't explain why your's would spike to 19 volts and I don't know how long your's was operating that way, but I can tell you that voltage level will damage a battery.
Likewise, a battery's job is to start a vehicle and supply additional power if the demand of the vehicle exceeds the output of the charging system. If the battery started your friend's vehicle, the charging system should've then been able to power the electrical system while the engine was running. I understand the end result in both instances is a replaced battery, but I would be interested in your insight on why the battery should've been supplying power to your friend's vehicle after the engine was started.
Hi Jim,
I should have clarified about the charging system. I don't believe it was actually producing 19 volts. I think the gauge spiked because the battery was not taking a charge. I tried putting it on the trickle charger, and it wouldn't take a charge either, so I think that was just the PCM's way of telling me there was a charging problem, since the gauge has to go all the way to one side or the other for the "check gauges" light to illuminate. For example, when the oil pressure sending unit went bad, the gauge spiked to 80 PSI and the "check gauges" light came on. I didn't actually have 80 PSI, but the PCM must have been getting a strange reading from the sensor resulting in the warning light. The gauge only showed 19 volts for 2 seconds. It had spiked there from the normal 14 volts until I shut the Jeep down.
As for why my friend's vehicle needed the battery power to run, I'm not quite sure. I will tell you that it seems to be apparent on Chrysler vehicles though. My father had a 1999 Grand Cherokee a few years back. The original Mopar battery died at 5 years old in the driveway. Thinking he could jump it, we hooked up jumper cables to a neighbor's F-350. The Jeep would start and run with a jump, but as soon as the cables were unhooked, it would stall. That battery ended up having a bad cell. I think it must be something with how the computer system is set up in these vehicles.
jeepman3071, we typically recommend a range of about 13.7-14.7 volts for alternator output, so your's doesn't sound unusual except for the spike to 19 volts and unless output of less than 13.7 volts is normal for you. As an energy storage device, a battery is only capable of delivering the voltage it contains, which wouldn't be anywhere near 19 volts. I'm not an expert on charging systems, so I can't explain why your's would spike to 19 volts and I don't know how long your's was operating that way, but I can tell you that voltage level will damage a battery.
Likewise, a battery's job is to start a vehicle and supply additional power if the demand of the vehicle exceeds the output of the charging system. If the battery started your friend's vehicle, the charging system should've then been able to power the electrical system while the engine was running. I understand the end result in both instances is a replaced battery, but I would be interested in your insight on why the battery should've been supplying power to your friend's vehicle after the engine was started.
Hi Jim,
I should have clarified about the charging system. I don't believe it was actually producing 19 volts. I think the gauge spiked because the battery was not taking a charge. I tried putting it on the trickle charger, and it wouldn't take a charge either, so I think that was just the PCM's way of telling me there was a charging problem, since the gauge has to go all the way to one side or the other for the "check gauges" light to illuminate. For example, when the oil pressure sending unit went bad, the gauge spiked to 80 PSI and the "check gauges" light came on. I didn't actually have 80 PSI, but the PCM must have been getting a strange reading from the sensor resulting in the warning light. The gauge only showed 19 volts for 2 seconds. It had spiked there from the normal 14 volts until I shut the Jeep down.
As for why my friend's vehicle needed the battery power to run, I'm not quite sure. I will tell you that it seems to be apparent on Chrysler vehicles though. My father had a 1999 Grand Cherokee a few years back. The original Mopar battery died at 5 years old in the driveway. Thinking he could jump it, we hooked up jumper cables to a neighbor's F-350. The Jeep would start and run with a jump, but as soon as the cables were unhooked, it would stall. That battery ended up having a bad cell. I think it must be something with how the computer system is set up in these vehicles.
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Hi Jim,
I should have clarified about the charging system. I don't believe it was actually producing 19 volts. I think the gauge spiked because the battery was not taking a charge. I tried putting it on the trickle charger, and it wouldn't take a charge either, so I think that was just the PCM's way of telling me there was a charging problem, since the gauge has to go all the way to one side or the other for the "check gauges" light to illuminate. For example, when the oil pressure sending unit went bad, the gauge spiked to 80 PSI and the "check gauges" light came on. I didn't actually have 80 PSI, but the PCM must have been getting a strange reading from the sensor resulting in the warning light. The gauge only showed 19 volts for 2 seconds. It had spiked there from the normal 14 volts until I shut the Jeep down.
Hey fellow Jeeper...
I'm not a battery engineer, but I am an electrical engineer and I kinda have to agree with OptimaJim... a bad battery shouldn't be able to make a charging system spike above ~13.8 volts. I say "shouldn't" because strange things happen out there under car hoods that can create weird feedback scenarios... but still. The "charging" system on a car isn't really trying to force-charge a battery, the ONLY thing its doing is trying to maintain its set-point voltage (around 13.8v, but trimmed up or down for ambient temp or battery temp- Jeeps have a battery temp sensor for example). But the trim is less than a volt, not all the way to 19 volts. So if the battery stops taking charge, the regulator and alternator will STILL try to hold that 13.8v voltage at the terminals, and unless the battery actually shorts internally, the system can easily do it. Spiking to 19 sounds more like the alternator regulator-side field lead shorting to ground, giving a spike of full output from the alternator. Either that or a regulator problem.
Hi Jim,
I should have clarified about the charging system. I don't believe it was actually producing 19 volts. I think the gauge spiked because the battery was not taking a charge. I tried putting it on the trickle charger, and it wouldn't take a charge either, so I think that was just the PCM's way of telling me there was a charging problem, since the gauge has to go all the way to one side or the other for the "check gauges" light to illuminate. For example, when the oil pressure sending unit went bad, the gauge spiked to 80 PSI and the "check gauges" light came on. I didn't actually have 80 PSI, but the PCM must have been getting a strange reading from the sensor resulting in the warning light. The gauge only showed 19 volts for 2 seconds. It had spiked there from the normal 14 volts until I shut the Jeep down.
Hey fellow Jeeper...
I'm not a battery engineer, but I am an electrical engineer and I kinda have to agree with OptimaJim... a bad battery shouldn't be able to make a charging system spike above ~13.8 volts. I say "shouldn't" because strange things happen out there under car hoods that can create weird feedback scenarios... but still. The "charging" system on a car isn't really trying to force-charge a battery, the ONLY thing its doing is trying to maintain its set-point voltage (around 13.8v, but trimmed up or down for ambient temp or battery temp- Jeeps have a battery temp sensor for example). But the trim is less than a volt, not all the way to 19 volts. So if the battery stops taking charge, the regulator and alternator will STILL try to hold that 13.8v voltage at the terminals, and unless the battery actually shorts internally, the system can easily do it. Spiking to 19 sounds more like the alternator regulator-side field lead shorting to ground, giving a spike of full output from the alternator. Either that or a regulator problem.
- Status
