so i know TBN depletion isn't consistent and that it all depends on the oil but here is my question. I want to use Valvoline Conventional oil just because but the most important thing to me is keeping sludge formation away. With that said VWB has a low TBN 6.8 for 5w20 but PYB has something crazy like 9.8 so the question is does the TBN being much higher really tell you it will neutralize more acid longer than the other brand?
opinion requested TBN
- Thread starter Jake777
- Start date
- Status
really ok thats interesting. can you explain? So my big thing is I want to go 5,000 miles on a van that is put to some punishing environments. stop and go over 90degrees short trips of 3 miles lots of idle time waiting for parent pickup and so on. sludge formation/ deposit formation is my concern but I like the idea of buying VWB american company with good prices at my local walmart. But its strange why they have such a low TBN compared to others.
PQIA
You probably can't hang your hat on one single VOA. The PQIA 5w-20 PYB has very strong TBN and Noack values, almost too good to be true. On the other hand the Next Gen Valvoline and also the VWB both tested out low on those same values. Would have been good if PQIA followed up those results with another set. The QSAD values are decent as well supporting that PYB's values are reasonable. Some other company's oil have similar low TBN's and high Noack like VWB.
The starting value of TBN is one thing. Then the things that can lower it are just as important: water and fuel contamination such as during extended idling, or frequent low temperature operation/short tripping, etc. Short tripping and idling in 90 deg Florida weather is far less an issue than a 20 deg winter day up north.
Just based on those PQIA results I'd go with the PYB. And at my Walmart the PYB 5 qt jug ($14.98) is cheaper than the VWB ($14.98). The VWB is on roll back too and normally $16.74. All of the popular WM conventionals are basically in the $13-$17 range per jug. Price doesn't look to be a factor imo...it comes down to what brand you prefer and what you think it can do for you. VWB is a lighter CA - higher Na oil with no moly or boron. PYB is high CA with moly, boron, etc. I'd use the PYB. I did use VWB on my last OCI of 4K miles. If I go back to conventional it would be PYB or whatever of the majors are on sale.
You probably can't hang your hat on one single VOA. The PQIA 5w-20 PYB has very strong TBN and Noack values, almost too good to be true. On the other hand the Next Gen Valvoline and also the VWB both tested out low on those same values. Would have been good if PQIA followed up those results with another set. The QSAD values are decent as well supporting that PYB's values are reasonable. Some other company's oil have similar low TBN's and high Noack like VWB.
The starting value of TBN is one thing. Then the things that can lower it are just as important: water and fuel contamination such as during extended idling, or frequent low temperature operation/short tripping, etc. Short tripping and idling in 90 deg Florida weather is far less an issue than a 20 deg winter day up north.
Just based on those PQIA results I'd go with the PYB. And at my Walmart the PYB 5 qt jug ($14.98) is cheaper than the VWB ($14.98). The VWB is on roll back too and normally $16.74. All of the popular WM conventionals are basically in the $13-$17 range per jug. Price doesn't look to be a factor imo...it comes down to what brand you prefer and what you think it can do for you. VWB is a lighter CA - higher Na oil with no moly or boron. PYB is high CA with moly, boron, etc. I'd use the PYB. I did use VWB on my last OCI of 4K miles. If I go back to conventional it would be PYB or whatever of the majors are on sale.
5000 miles of even harsh treatment, I think VWB will be more then capable.
mobil super (5000) at walmart, is cheaper and also american.
mobil super (5000) at walmart, is cheaper and also american.
Originally Posted By: 01_celica_gt
5000 miles of even harsh treatment, I think VWB will be more then capable.
I concur. VWB at 5000 is very doable. I ran a test several years ago at that distance and the VWB UOA was as good as M1, Amsoil and ST Syn. UOA said the oil could have gone further, but this was probably 70% highway at least.
5000 miles of even harsh treatment, I think VWB will be more then capable.
I concur. VWB at 5000 is very doable. I ran a test several years ago at that distance and the VWB UOA was as good as M1, Amsoil and ST Syn. UOA said the oil could have gone further, but this was probably 70% highway at least.
I think that oils that use only Calcium detergents, excluding Magnesium and Sodium sulfonates starts with a pretty high amount and its TBN are huge. But it deplets quicker than Mg and Na. So, some lower TBN oils keep it for longer and in the end of a OCI, they join the same level. Valvolines are high on sodium, some M1 are high on Magnesium, and Amzoil are crazy High TBN, but the calcium one...
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Jake777
so i know TBN depletion isn't consistent and that it all depends on the oil but here is my question. I want to use Valvoline Conventional oil just because but the most important thing to me is keeping sludge formation away. With that said VWB has a low TBN 6.8 for 5w20 but PYB has something crazy like 9.8 so the question is does the TBN being much higher really tell you it will neutralize more acid longer than the other brand?
The TBN depletion is not linear.
Typically the extended OCI oils typically have high TBN. But the only way to tell how a given oil works in a particular engine is to do UOAs.
so i know TBN depletion isn't consistent and that it all depends on the oil but here is my question. I want to use Valvoline Conventional oil just because but the most important thing to me is keeping sludge formation away. With that said VWB has a low TBN 6.8 for 5w20 but PYB has something crazy like 9.8 so the question is does the TBN being much higher really tell you it will neutralize more acid longer than the other brand?
The TBN depletion is not linear.
Typically the extended OCI oils typically have high TBN. But the only way to tell how a given oil works in a particular engine is to do UOAs.
Having played around at some time with most detergents, I came to the conclusion long ago that TBN = TBN = TBN. All this stuff about one being better than another is a fairy story concocted by one particular AddCo (you know who you are!) to muddy the waters and persuade the gullible that their 'slow depleting' detergent isn't just slow full stop.
As a general rule, for gasoline engines, more TBN is generally a good thing but for a given duty, you might balance off TBN with antioxidant and base oil quality.
Either oil would be good for 5000 miles.
As a general rule, for gasoline engines, more TBN is generally a good thing but for a given duty, you might balance off TBN with antioxidant and base oil quality.
Either oil would be good for 5000 miles.
- Status
Similar threads
