I'd like to see that filter.
Oops. 25k miles on oil on Mazda RX-8.
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That's what I said A NEED to SEE.
This cars meters oil into the CC at start correct OUI? Its supposed to use oil, Correct OUI ? I would not reference oil usage in this engine compared to a small 6 cyl 4s piston engine. It is four cycle though but the CC is in relative motion to the rotor face. Helps prevent detonation I hear ...
This cars meters oil into the CC at start correct OUI? Its supposed to use oil, Correct OUI ? I would not reference oil usage in this engine compared to a small 6 cyl 4s piston engine. It is four cycle though but the CC is in relative motion to the rotor face. Helps prevent detonation I hear ...
Originally Posted By: Spyder7
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Best way to keep consumption in check is to monitor it predictively, using the tripometer. Reset it after top-off and re-check at 500 miles. Adding in 1/2q increments is ideal, so find a number of miles that corresponds with that and use it as a milestone....she hits 600 miles, top it and reset the counter.
Or do what they did back in the days before trip meters: spend the extra minute when filling the gas tank to pop the hood, and look over the fluids while you check the oil. Its an easy habit to adopt, and one still recommended in every car manual I've seen, including my own. I do this every fillup. Sometimes a little more frequently, but that is the minimum and an easy and good habit to get into.
It also takes the guess work out of interpreting fluid levels, since I know when I last checked them and that they were all at the full line then, I know the interval that's occurred since any change. This is the simplest, fastest, and potentially most cost effective maintenance you can do.
-Spyder
This is what I recommend for amatauers.
The most importing thing is not to exceed a point when the oil is dangerously low, and this method insures it. The habit of hood-poping will come in time, and this method also insures they don't become discouraged by popping the hood unnecessarily. Say you lecture them and they pop the hood a few times later at random, to no effect. There's no mechanism remaining to insure they will check the oil again at the *right* time. All I am doing in defining the "right time" with a device that's visible on their dash. Who cares what they did before tripometers?
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Best way to keep consumption in check is to monitor it predictively, using the tripometer. Reset it after top-off and re-check at 500 miles. Adding in 1/2q increments is ideal, so find a number of miles that corresponds with that and use it as a milestone....she hits 600 miles, top it and reset the counter.
Or do what they did back in the days before trip meters: spend the extra minute when filling the gas tank to pop the hood, and look over the fluids while you check the oil. Its an easy habit to adopt, and one still recommended in every car manual I've seen, including my own. I do this every fillup. Sometimes a little more frequently, but that is the minimum and an easy and good habit to get into.
It also takes the guess work out of interpreting fluid levels, since I know when I last checked them and that they were all at the full line then, I know the interval that's occurred since any change. This is the simplest, fastest, and potentially most cost effective maintenance you can do.
-Spyder
This is what I recommend for amatauers.
The most importing thing is not to exceed a point when the oil is dangerously low, and this method insures it. The habit of hood-poping will come in time, and this method also insures they don't become discouraged by popping the hood unnecessarily. Say you lecture them and they pop the hood a few times later at random, to no effect. There's no mechanism remaining to insure they will check the oil again at the *right* time. All I am doing in defining the "right time" with a device that's visible on their dash. Who cares what they did before tripometers?
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Originally Posted By: Spyder7
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Best way to keep consumption in check is to monitor it predictively, using the tripometer. Reset it after top-off and re-check at 500 miles. Adding in 1/2q increments is ideal, so find a number of miles that corresponds with that and use it as a milestone....she hits 600 miles, top it and reset the counter.
Or do what they did back in the days before trip meters: spend the extra minute when filling the gas tank to pop the hood, and look over the fluids while you check the oil. Its an easy habit to adopt, and one still recommended in every car manual I've seen, including my own. I do this every fillup. Sometimes a little more frequently, but that is the minimum and an easy and good habit to get into.
It also takes the guess work out of interpreting fluid levels, since I know when I last checked them and that they were all at the full line then, I know the interval that's occurred since any change. This is the simplest, fastest, and potentially most cost effective maintenance you can do.
-Spyder
This is what I recommend for amatauers.
The most importing thing is not to exceed a point when the oil is dangerously low, and this method insures it. The habit of hood-poping will come in time, and this method also insures they don't become discouraged by popping the hood unnecessarily. Say you lecture them and they pop the hood a few times later at random, to no effect. There's no mechanism remaining to insure they will check the oil again at the *right* time. All I am doing in defining the "right time" with a device that's visible on their dash. Who cares what they did before tripometers?
Both methods ultimately accomplish the same method. Doing proper self-service at the pump is logical and an easy habit to aquire.
I would prefer it to constantly checking a trip meter, and I could easily do either or both. I think using a trip meter for this is easy to overlook or forget. It has no reminder feature when it hits that arbitrary number. A near empty tank and the need to pull into the pump to fill it is a consistent reminder. And it takes me less time to do the under the hood stuff while I'm there than it does to pump the gas. It just seems more intuitive and easier to do consistently. That's the difference.
-Spyder
Originally Posted By: Spyder7
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Best way to keep consumption in check is to monitor it predictively, using the tripometer. Reset it after top-off and re-check at 500 miles. Adding in 1/2q increments is ideal, so find a number of miles that corresponds with that and use it as a milestone....she hits 600 miles, top it and reset the counter.
Or do what they did back in the days before trip meters: spend the extra minute when filling the gas tank to pop the hood, and look over the fluids while you check the oil. Its an easy habit to adopt, and one still recommended in every car manual I've seen, including my own. I do this every fillup. Sometimes a little more frequently, but that is the minimum and an easy and good habit to get into.
It also takes the guess work out of interpreting fluid levels, since I know when I last checked them and that they were all at the full line then, I know the interval that's occurred since any change. This is the simplest, fastest, and potentially most cost effective maintenance you can do.
-Spyder
This is what I recommend for amatauers.
The most importing thing is not to exceed a point when the oil is dangerously low, and this method insures it. The habit of hood-poping will come in time, and this method also insures they don't become discouraged by popping the hood unnecessarily. Say you lecture them and they pop the hood a few times later at random, to no effect. There's no mechanism remaining to insure they will check the oil again at the *right* time. All I am doing in defining the "right time" with a device that's visible on their dash. Who cares what they did before tripometers?
Both methods ultimately accomplish the same method. Doing proper self-service at the pump is logical and an easy habit to aquire.
I would prefer it to constantly checking a trip meter, and I could easily do either or both. I think using a trip meter for this is easy to overlook or forget. It has no reminder feature when it hits that arbitrary number. A near empty tank and the need to pull into the pump to fill it is a consistent reminder. And it takes me less time to do the under the hood stuff while I'm there than it does to pump the gas. It just seems more intuitive and easier to do consistently. That's the difference.
-Spyder
Originally Posted By: HK_Ace
Oh no, I hope she was at least using a good synthetic. Check the dipstick and oil-filler cap for varnish. You may use an oil that does a good job of cleaning the engine- one of the Pennzoils- like the Ultra. This would be a very interesting UOA to Blackstone...I'd do that too.
You never want to use a synthetic with a rotary engine from Mazda. It actually has to burn oil so it can lubricate the Apex seals in the engine. Synthetic is more resistance to burn off and there for causes a very high failure rate in their motors. Conventional or Mazda's specifically engineered blend can be used.
Oh no, I hope she was at least using a good synthetic. Check the dipstick and oil-filler cap for varnish. You may use an oil that does a good job of cleaning the engine- one of the Pennzoils- like the Ultra. This would be a very interesting UOA to Blackstone...I'd do that too.
You never want to use a synthetic with a rotary engine from Mazda. It actually has to burn oil so it can lubricate the Apex seals in the engine. Synthetic is more resistance to burn off and there for causes a very high failure rate in their motors. Conventional or Mazda's specifically engineered blend can be used.
It kind of amazing then that I never run low on oil, but don't check it at EVERY fill-up either.
How in the world can that be explained???
How in the world can that be explained???
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
It kind of amazing then that I never run low on oil, but don't check it at EVERY fill-up either.
How in the world can that be explained???
Audie you have a more modern system that works for you and that you recommend. I have an old school system that works for me and that I recommend. Bottom line is they both work, I say we call it a draw.
-Spyder
It kind of amazing then that I never run low on oil, but don't check it at EVERY fill-up either.
How in the world can that be explained???
Audie you have a more modern system that works for you and that you recommend. I have an old school system that works for me and that I recommend. Bottom line is they both work, I say we call it a draw.
-Spyder
It's not a matter of which technique works for us pros, it's a matter of which is easier to teach and more effective ultimately in preventing the run-low. Believe me, with 1000 miles as the max top-off distance and a tripometer that would effectively rollover back to zero, someone would have to be a real bonehead to miss their cue.
Lecturing someone that they HAVE to pop their hood EVERY fill-up will simply not yield the desired result.
Lecturing someone that they HAVE to pop their hood EVERY fill-up will simply not yield the desired result.
If you pop your hood for a level check at a fillup: 1) the oil has not drained back completely, 2) the dipstick reading will be "suspect" due to wipe and re-insert, 3) you may be off to work or a function where you dont want your clothes at risk of becoming "soiled". I check my oil Saturday morning after the car sat all night and I dont have to wipe and re-insert. Gives a good solid reading with cold oil and cold engine that's completely drained back. (Caution: The Cold check method does not work with flakey new Subaru dipsticks - they require a wipe and slow re-insert)
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This oil cleaned varnish off the head in my 187,000 mile Ford.
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
If you pop your hood for a level check at a fillup: 1) the oil has not drained back completely, 2) the dipstick reading will be "suspect" due to wipe and re-insert, 3) you may be off to work or a function where you dont want your clothes at risk of becoming "soiled". I check my oil Saturday morning after the car sat all night and I dont have to wipe and re-insert. Gives a good solid reading with cold oil and cold engine that's completely drained back. (Caution: The Cold check method does not work with flakey new Subaru dipsticks - they require a wipe and slow re-insert)
It works for me. My driveway is sloped, so getting an accurate reading there is out no matter how long its been sitting. I don't fillup when I'm in a rush. I do it during off peak times when there's less congestion around the pumps and when its convenient for me. I may not be getting a perfectly accurate reading, but has already been pointed out, the dipstick isn't built to NASA standards so its not a perfectly accurate measurement device anyway.
This method just works for me and its what I use. If I end up adding a quarter quart too much because some is still up in the crankcase, its not going to cause aeration or do any damage. And it gets checked often enough that my top up rarely exceeds a quarter quart. At the most, it might be half quart going in.
I've gotten used to this engine's particular thirst well enough that I can predict pretty closely when it needs a bit and roughly how much. The dipstick is just a double check. It also serves to reassure no leaks have developed by actual level being lower than expected.
Again, I say go with whatever works. Obviously the habits of the OPs sister is far from ideal, and any of these methods would yield a considerable improvement.
-Spyder
If you pop your hood for a level check at a fillup: 1) the oil has not drained back completely, 2) the dipstick reading will be "suspect" due to wipe and re-insert, 3) you may be off to work or a function where you dont want your clothes at risk of becoming "soiled". I check my oil Saturday morning after the car sat all night and I dont have to wipe and re-insert. Gives a good solid reading with cold oil and cold engine that's completely drained back. (Caution: The Cold check method does not work with flakey new Subaru dipsticks - they require a wipe and slow re-insert)
It works for me. My driveway is sloped, so getting an accurate reading there is out no matter how long its been sitting. I don't fillup when I'm in a rush. I do it during off peak times when there's less congestion around the pumps and when its convenient for me. I may not be getting a perfectly accurate reading, but has already been pointed out, the dipstick isn't built to NASA standards so its not a perfectly accurate measurement device anyway.
This method just works for me and its what I use. If I end up adding a quarter quart too much because some is still up in the crankcase, its not going to cause aeration or do any damage. And it gets checked often enough that my top up rarely exceeds a quarter quart. At the most, it might be half quart going in.
I've gotten used to this engine's particular thirst well enough that I can predict pretty closely when it needs a bit and roughly how much. The dipstick is just a double check. It also serves to reassure no leaks have developed by actual level being lower than expected.
Again, I say go with whatever works. Obviously the habits of the OPs sister is far from ideal, and any of these methods would yield a considerable improvement.
-Spyder
Originally Posted By: Anies
Originally Posted By: HK_Ace
Oh no, I hope she was at least using a good synthetic. Check the dipstick and oil-filler cap for varnish. You may use an oil that does a good job of cleaning the engine- one of the Pennzoils- like the Ultra. This would be a very interesting UOA to Blackstone...I'd do that too.
You never want to use a synthetic with a rotary engine from Mazda. It actually has to burn oil so it can lubricate the Apex seals in the engine. Synthetic is more resistance to burn off and there for causes a very high failure rate in their motors. Conventional or Mazda's specifically engineered blend can be used.
The burning of the oil has zero lubrication value. In fact, the longer the oil can resist burning is the more useful it can be as a seal lubricant. That said, "no synthetic in a rotary" is among the dumbest, most perpetuated nonsense since Pennzoil sludge. Ignoring the fact that for many years, Mazda and others have offered fully synthetic oils specifically for the rotary, it is in fact the polymers and additives added to oils that gunk up and buildup as deposits. So the great irony here is most people are shortening the lives of their engines only to satisfy their logical fallacies. Funny, and tragic.
Refeeding the OMP to a 2-stroke res is by far one of the smartest things any rotary owner can do. Being made for mass production and sold to many of the unwitting, using lube oil to do the job is the most 'no-brainer', easiest solution but barely adequate at best. *this is where people stop caring, but I'll say it anyway*: If I had to recommend a motor oil for rotary use, it would be straight, monograde HD30 mineral or synthetic. All lube points in the rotary are close together, with no cams, lifter, head or far off parts to lube and 'cold flow' properties mean zip. The only thing multigrading does is add extra chemicals that will only get in the way of clean burning, thermal stability, thermal capacity, and maintaining film strength. Truly understanding Rotary lube requirements really requires you to forget what you think you know about oil. Ideally, my rotary setup would certainly be a 2-stroke res to OMP, with Ester 10w30/SAE30 on the inside for longest life and happiest performance. Substitute 30 grade for 40 or even 50 in very high output applications, but always straight.
To the OP, your sister's engine won't blowup (it can't.. seriously, what is a rod bearing gonna go? tappets collapse?
rod get tossed?), but her seals are probably less than happy right now. At worse, she'll gradually lose compression. As for sludge, I can almost assure that there is a sufficient amount of fuel in that oil to prevent full and total gelling. 5w20 would get consumed the fastest as the fuel builds up in the oil and it's viscosity drops severely, and as (side) seals wear on, but it's not all bad as 5w20 minerals don't rely heavily on polymeric VIIs and thus less 'plastic' to melt and coagulate into hard deposits. At this point, 5w20 is very NOT ideal. All said though, the sequence of events is not totally tragic, but a little rough. Best of luck.
Originally Posted By: HK_Ace
Oh no, I hope she was at least using a good synthetic. Check the dipstick and oil-filler cap for varnish. You may use an oil that does a good job of cleaning the engine- one of the Pennzoils- like the Ultra. This would be a very interesting UOA to Blackstone...I'd do that too.
You never want to use a synthetic with a rotary engine from Mazda. It actually has to burn oil so it can lubricate the Apex seals in the engine. Synthetic is more resistance to burn off and there for causes a very high failure rate in their motors. Conventional or Mazda's specifically engineered blend can be used.
The burning of the oil has zero lubrication value. In fact, the longer the oil can resist burning is the more useful it can be as a seal lubricant. That said, "no synthetic in a rotary" is among the dumbest, most perpetuated nonsense since Pennzoil sludge. Ignoring the fact that for many years, Mazda and others have offered fully synthetic oils specifically for the rotary, it is in fact the polymers and additives added to oils that gunk up and buildup as deposits. So the great irony here is most people are shortening the lives of their engines only to satisfy their logical fallacies. Funny, and tragic.
Refeeding the OMP to a 2-stroke res is by far one of the smartest things any rotary owner can do. Being made for mass production and sold to many of the unwitting, using lube oil to do the job is the most 'no-brainer', easiest solution but barely adequate at best. *this is where people stop caring, but I'll say it anyway*: If I had to recommend a motor oil for rotary use, it would be straight, monograde HD30 mineral or synthetic. All lube points in the rotary are close together, with no cams, lifter, head or far off parts to lube and 'cold flow' properties mean zip. The only thing multigrading does is add extra chemicals that will only get in the way of clean burning, thermal stability, thermal capacity, and maintaining film strength. Truly understanding Rotary lube requirements really requires you to forget what you think you know about oil. Ideally, my rotary setup would certainly be a 2-stroke res to OMP, with Ester 10w30/SAE30 on the inside for longest life and happiest performance. Substitute 30 grade for 40 or even 50 in very high output applications, but always straight.
To the OP, your sister's engine won't blowup (it can't.. seriously, what is a rod bearing gonna go? tappets collapse?
I don't think you have done any damage, the make up oil is the life saver here by keeping the oil fresh. 25k on the filter is not going to hurt anything... I don't understand what the big deal is about filters around here.. we have OEM's recommending 15K or more intervals... being mindful of the fudge factor that the filter can go further, I wouldn't worry about the filter being the weak link.
I'm not saying it's the best practice in the world, however I don't see as any harm has been done. I wouldn't add any boot leg oil, snake oil, cleaners or anything, if anything kill two birds with one stone use PYB that way you can atone Pennzoil's 40% more cleaning while appeasing yourself that your cleaning your engine (her engine) at the same time.
Future plans could involve marking calender based on time twice a year or so whatever floats your boat, and you might mark your calender to help her out...
I'm not saying it's the best practice in the world, however I don't see as any harm has been done. I wouldn't add any boot leg oil, snake oil, cleaners or anything, if anything kill two birds with one stone use PYB that way you can atone Pennzoil's 40% more cleaning while appeasing yourself that your cleaning your engine (her engine) at the same time.
Future plans could involve marking calender based on time twice a year or so whatever floats your boat, and you might mark your calender to help her out...
I would actually run some MMO in the old oil for a week or two.
It can't hurt anything.
It can't hurt anything.
If this is not in a rotary engine I would use MMO for several hundreds miles, I'm not so sure about MMO in a RX8. I just change the oil+filter now and run a short OCI about 1-2k miles.
Honestly I think there is a LOT of over reaction here....
Sure the engine has been neglected...but it sounds like it is running ok...
I would simply run some HDEO Rotella in that engine for a few thousand and then put a good quality gas engine oil back in....
Just for kicks I would love to see the results of a compression test.
Sure the engine has been neglected...but it sounds like it is running ok...
I would simply run some HDEO Rotella in that engine for a few thousand and then put a good quality gas engine oil back in....
Just for kicks I would love to see the results of a compression test.
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
If you pop your hood for a level check at a fillup: 1) the oil has not drained back completely, 2) the dipstick reading will be "suspect" due to wipe and re-insert, 3) you may be off to work or a function where you dont want your clothes at risk of becoming "soiled". I check my oil Saturday morning after the car sat all night and I dont have to wipe and re-insert. Gives a good solid reading with cold oil and cold engine that's completely drained back. (Caution: The Cold check method does not work with flakey new Subaru dipsticks - they require a wipe and slow re-insert)
The above listed expert opinion brought to you by someone who blows an engine every three months and blames the motor oil.
1.) If the oil is hot, it drains back to the pan pretty quickly so I doubt the reading is that far off.
2.) If wiping a tenth of an ounce off the dipstick due to re-insert causes the car to be low on oil, then it was way low before I pulled the stick.
3.) Fill your car up when it hit's a quarter of a tank, and then you will be doing it at a time of your choosing, not when you are late to a dinner party dressed in a tuxedo.
I'm a little old school so I like the pop the hood at fillup method as well; can spot check everything in the time it takes to fill the tank.
But the trip-odometer method sounds just as good. Anything would be an improvement in this situation.
If you pop your hood for a level check at a fillup: 1) the oil has not drained back completely, 2) the dipstick reading will be "suspect" due to wipe and re-insert, 3) you may be off to work or a function where you dont want your clothes at risk of becoming "soiled". I check my oil Saturday morning after the car sat all night and I dont have to wipe and re-insert. Gives a good solid reading with cold oil and cold engine that's completely drained back. (Caution: The Cold check method does not work with flakey new Subaru dipsticks - they require a wipe and slow re-insert)
The above listed expert opinion brought to you by someone who blows an engine every three months and blames the motor oil.
1.) If the oil is hot, it drains back to the pan pretty quickly so I doubt the reading is that far off.
2.) If wiping a tenth of an ounce off the dipstick due to re-insert causes the car to be low on oil, then it was way low before I pulled the stick.
3.) Fill your car up when it hit's a quarter of a tank, and then you will be doing it at a time of your choosing, not when you are late to a dinner party dressed in a tuxedo.
I'm a little old school so I like the pop the hood at fillup method as well; can spot check everything in the time it takes to fill the tank.
But the trip-odometer method sounds just as good. Anything would be an improvement in this situation.
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