OLD TRUCKS VS NEW TRUCKS

[CKN]

Oh I forget to add that storm busted all his windows then down poured. So he had dented metal, all his glass busted, the interior to include electronics all soaked.
I didn't get any busted windows, just spidered windshield.

Just to be clear. It's all an unscientific observation . In my area It can be hailing on one side of the street and not the other- literally. That's what insurance is for. And if there are enough claims in a given area, your rates will go up too. It speaks zero to the construction of the truck itself.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Nice car, highly under respected.

Pontiac needs to come back out.

Here is some stuff on the car. It was faster than a 69 GTO.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Just to be clear. It's all an unscientific observation . In my area It can be hailing on one side of the street and not the other- literally. That's what insurance is for. And if there are enough claims in a given area, your rates will go up too. It speaks zero to the construction of the truck itself.

All new vehicles use much thinner gauge steel for body panels, or aluminum panels in many cases (F150 is all) and the new acoustic glass is much thinner and easier for a stone to break - and more expensive.

Its all to save weight which is part of the mileage game.

Yes hail on one side of the street can be very different than the other, but that isn't necessarily the only part of the story.

 

[redhat]

Speaking to the GTO, GM Holden was just plain cool. I still to this day don’t know why we couldn’t have had global zeta platform sedans with RWD/AWD instead of the likes of the Malibu/last gen Impala. Turbo 4, V6 or v8 in a zeta-based sedan trimmed from economy commuter car up to your performance sedan.

I would’ve loved to see nameplate of a Chevrolet Commodore. And I know the SS/G8/Caprice was here but I mean in common car terms.

 

[CKN]

All new vehicles use much thinner gauge steel for body panels, or aluminum panels in many cases (F150 is all) and the new acoustic glass is much thinner and easier for a stone to break - and more expensive.

Its all to save weight which is part of the mileage game.

Yes hail on one side of the street can be very different than the other, but that isn't necessarily the only part of the story.

That's all true-but it doesn't make one truck inherently superior over another . The hood and tailgate on my Silverado is aluminum.If a major hailstorm comes along-the insurance can deal with it. The neighbor can smile with glee driving around his 25 year old pickup-the one that rides like a buckboard and gets 10mpg.

 

[OVERKILL]

My neighbors 2019 ram got totalled from a hail storm. He lives about 100yd from me. My 25 year old dodge got a few new dents and a new windshield, it was already cracked from rock hits.
Not a fan of new trucks.

That's odd, no PDR? Or was it crazy bad? My Jeep got extensive PDR due to a hail storm somewhat recently, but it definitely wasn't even remotely close to writing it off.

 

[OVERKILL]

They have weird visibility requirements in addition to crash standards that force modern trucks to be bigger and more unwieldy. I would also agree older trucks feel more useable. Those trucks just can't be made this way anymore.

This. You put that '85 in any of the modern crash test protocols and it is failing spectacularly.

I smoked a 12-point buck at 60mph towing the larger of our two boats (which this truck pulls better than anything I've ever owned) sent it flying, then ended up running over it before I could stop. Deer hit dead centre. Barely felt the hit, headlights were totally screwed (passenger side was pointing at the ditch) and the grille was gone, but nothing was leaking so I drove it home. My dad still remarks at how unfazed the truck was by the impact, and how composed it was, despite the emergency braking and being pushed by a large boat.

Yeah, the infotainment might have some issues down the road, CarPlay will probably stop working at some point, being too old. But I can't see the crucial bits being unobtainium. You can still get electronics replacements for EEC-IV era Fords, and that stuff is coming up on 40 years old now. But, do I worry about this truck lasting 40 years? No. It gets about 15,000 miles per year put on it, if my wife keeps that rate up by the time it's 20 it'll have 300,000 mile on it, that's plenty of service.

 

[SC Maintenance]

That's all true-but it doesn't make one truck inherently superior over another . The hood and tailgate on my Silverado is aluminum.If a major hailstorm comes along-the insurance can deal with it. The neighbor can smile with glee driving around his 25 year old pickup-the one that rides like a buckboard and gets 10mpg.

I never said one was superior over the other. Your the one that keeps repeating the same inaccuracies. None of my old trucks got anything close to 10MPG, they were all in the high teens average. All the half tons rode quite nicely - I drove many down washboard gravel roads. I even worked in a GM dealer as a kid part time from probably around 90 - 95 ish, so I was in a lot of them.

Now if you had a 3/4 ton camper special with a 4bbl and sticking electric choke, well that was different (and on the owner really).

They were underpowered and had poor crash ratings by today's standards, but that was the standards of the time. Presumably they could do better today.

The OP lamented on how a simple, small C10 met the needs of a lot of tasks, and I agreed and wish they would make a modern version. But of course the iron cowboys need to ride in and tell everyone there wrong.

 

[OVERKILL]

Sure, the predecessor LS6 454 in the Chevelle made 450hp and over 500lbs, with the 500 being at 3000 rpm or so, with stock exhaust manifolds. Some say that those numbers were dumbed down by GM for insurance reasons same as the L88 427 in the 67 Vette.

Are we talking the SAE GROSS era 60's stuff here? Because yes, there was some serious neutering that happened in the 70's, but there was also the transition from HP being measured in SAE GROSS to SAE NET, which changed the figures considerably. There was also some crossover there where we saw the same engine measured in NET instead of GROSS before all the smog stuff happened.

LS6 Chevelle
Motortrend, with some prep, managed to get 13.44 @ 108.17mph, curb weight is 3,836lbs
https://www.motortrend.com/features/1601-flashback-road-test-of-a-1970-chevrolet-chevelle-ls6/
Indicated power: 460HP, 500 lb-ft

E39 M5
Car and Driver got 13.3 @ 108mph, curb weight is 3,976lbs
https://www.caranddriver.com/review...benz-e55-amg-2000-jaguar-xjr-comparison-test/
Indicated power: 394HP, 368 lb-ft

Same trap speed, M5 is 113lbs heavier, so that old 454 was probably around 390HP-400HP SAE NET, when adjusted from GROSS. Still fantastic numbers for the time, but down 60-70HP when corrected.

 

[Torrid]

This. You put that '85 in any of the modern crash test protocols and it is failing spectacularly.

I smoked a 12-point buck at 60mph towing the larger of our two boats (which this truck pulls better than anything I've ever owned) sent it flying, then ended up running over it before I could stop. Deer hit dead centre. Barely felt the hit, headlights were totally screwed (passenger side was pointing at the ditch) and the grille was gone, but nothing was leaking so I drove it home. My dad still remarks at how unfazed the truck was by the impact, and how composed it was, despite the under emergency braking and being pushed by a large boat.

Yeah, the infotainment might have some issues down the road, CarPlay will probably stop working at some point, being too old. But I can't see the crucial bits being unobtainium. You can still get electronics replacements for EEC-IV era Fords, and that stuff is coming up on 40 years old now. But, do I worry about this truck lasting 40 years? No. It gets about 15,000 miles per year put on it, if my wife keeps that rate up by the time it's 20 it'll have 300,00 mile on it, that's plenty of service.

There's a lot to what you said in that last part. We aren't going to be driving the vehicles we're in today as a daily in 40 years, nor would we likely want to with safety standards. Welds, metals, and other materials weaken over time. They aren't collector vehicles, they're what we use to get stuff done and make our lives easier.

 

[burbguy82]

Are we talking the SAE GROSS era 60's stuff here? Because yes, there was some serious neutering that happened in the 70's, but there was also the transition from HP being measured in SAE GROSS to SAE NET, which changed the figures considerably. There was also some crossover there where we saw the same engine measured in NET instead of GROSS before all the smog stuff happened.

LS6 Chevelle
Motortrend, with some prep, managed to get 13.44 @ 108.17mph, curb weight is 3,836lbs
https://www.motortrend.com/features/1601-flashback-road-test-of-a-1970-chevrolet-chevelle-ls6/
Indicated power: 460HP, 500 lb-ft

E39 M5
Car and Driver got 13.3 @ 108mph, curb weight is 3,976lbs
https://www.caranddriver.com/review...benz-e55-amg-2000-jaguar-xjr-comparison-test/
Indicated power: 394HP, 368 lb-ft

Same trap speed, M5 is 113lbs heavier, so that old 454 was probably around 390HP-400HP SAE NET, when adjusted from GROSS. Still fantastic numbers for the time, but down 60-70HP when corrected.

I am just making a comparison. Power number from the era i was talking about are skewed for many reasons.

Not until the C6 ZR1 did Gm state "the most powerful car gm ever made". Even with the ZO6 at 505 hp. Why?

The hp rating of some cars in the 60s and 70s were underrated.

Old stuff quarter times, and newer times are a result of traction control aswell, no where near apples to apples.

Of course, power does not translate to speed or time. The McLaren F1 for example, had a "measly" 627 Hp, but was the fastest car dor over 20 years.

None of these are trucks

 

[OVERKILL]

I am just making a comparison. Power number from the era i was talking about are skewed for many reasons.

I don't think they are generally "skewed", we transitioned from HP being measured in GROSS, which was the engine on a dyno with no accessories and open headers, to NET, which is the engine dressed like it was going to be in the car, and this had a considerable impact on the results. You just have to keep that in mind when comparing between eras.

We've come even further now with "Certified HP", which, IIRC, was first used by GM on the LS7 and was why they had to bump the power rating from 500 to 505:

Not until the C6 ZR1 did Gm state "the most powerful car gm ever made". Even with the ZO6 at 505 hp. Why?

I doubt that means anything TBH, it' probably a red herring.

The hp rating of some cars in the 60s and 70s were underrated.

Sure, that's quite possible, but that again goes back to what standard we are using as the basis for those numbers.

Old stuff quarter times, and newer times are a result of traction control aswell, no where near apples to apples.

For E/T, absolutely, but not for trap speed. Trap speed tells us how much power something is making for a given weight. You can take a car that runs 14.2 @ 101, put a tire under it and get it down to say 13.6, but it'll still be trapping 101mph.

Of course, power does not translate to speed or time. The McLaren F1 for example, had a "measly" 627 Hp, but was the fastest car dor over 20 years.

I mean, it absolutely does, as does aero, gearing and other factors. If the BMW-powered McLaren had 400HP, it would have been slower, even with the same gearing, weight and its fantastic aero.

None of these are trucks

True, but you brought up the LS6 and I thought it was important to note that those numbers aren't comparable to modern ones if they were the SAE GROSS figures, which you've now confirmed to be the case.

 

[350Rocket]

I still want to see a V8 truck that actually pulls off 25mpg. I did 21 at best in my 2017 5.0 F150 and was closer to 17mpg most of the time. Sure, it was great hauling a lot, but was useless as a highway commuter getting 17mpg at 75mph. If it got 25mpg I probably would still be driving it.

Well the 2018 is probably significantly better with the 10 speed but then you will probably end up having to replace the transmission at great cost and the engine is prone to oil burning. The 2017 is likely a lot more long lasting. If I was to buy an f150 it would be 2015-2017 5.0

 

[burbguy82]

Honestly I think the last 6.0/6l90E GM trucks were their best 3/4 ton and up gassers GM has made.

I agree

I personally believe anything over GVWR of about 5 tons should be a commercial license.

Many states DOT standards do not even recognize a trailer until it is 10k or over, requiring at least a Class C CDL, if for commercial use. RVs are really where most of the issues are at, since many RVers really dont know the gravity of what they are doing.

I still want to see a V8 truck that actually pulls off 25mpg.

OH now then.....there are some on here that swear than theirs gets 25 all day long, and will even show you some cherry picked pics to prove it! I would like to see it aswell.

I mean, it absolutely does, as does aero, gearing and other factors. If the BMW-powered McLaren had 400HP, it would have been slower, even with the same gearing, weight and its fantastic aero.

Sure, but the ZR1 has no where near the top speed, relative to aero and the other things, and makes the same power. What I was getting at is that it is the setup that matters, more than just one thing overall.

 

[OVERKILL]

Sure, but the ZR1 has no where near the top speed, relative to aero and the other things, and makes the same power. What I was getting at is that it is the setup that matters, more than just one thing overall.

Yup, agreed!

 

[Snagglefoot]

This. You put that '85 in any of the modern crash test protocols and it is failing spectacularly.

I smoked a 12-point buck at 60mph towing the larger of our two boats (which this truck pulls better than anything I've ever owned) sent it flying, then ended up running over it before I could stop. Deer hit dead centre. Barely felt the hit, headlights were totally screwed (passenger side was pointing at the ditch) and the grille was gone, but nothing was leaking so I drove it home. My dad still remarks at how unfazed the truck was by the impact, and how composed it was, despite the emergency braking and being pushed by a large boat.

Yeah, the infotainment might have some issues down the road, CarPlay will probably stop working at some point, being too old. But I can't see the crucial bits being unobtainium. You can still get electronics replacements for EEC-IV era Fords, and that stuff is coming up on 40 years old now. But, do I worry about this truck lasting 40 years? No. It gets about 15,000 miles per year put on it, if my wife keeps that rate up by the time it's 20 it'll have 300,000 mile on it, that's plenty of service.

We have a herd of Elk that roam across the highway north of Cranbrook. For the pitch black morning drive into town all winter, it’s comforting having the 2008 3/4 ton Chevy Suburban.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Speaking to the GTO, GM Holden was just plain cool. I still to this day don’t know why we couldn’t have had global zeta platform sedans with RWD/AWD instead of the likes of the Malibu/last gen Impala. Turbo 4, V6 or v8 in a zeta-based sedan trimmed from economy commuter car up to your performance sedan.

I would’ve loved to see nameplate of a Chevrolet Commodore. And I know the SS/G8/Caprice was here but I mean in common car terms.

I recall reading that the impending bankruptcy of GM and dropping the Pontiac brand all added to the fate of the GTO and G8.

 

[oil pan 4]

That's odd, no PDR? Or was it crazy bad? My Jeep got extensive PDR due to a hail storm somewhat recently, but it definitely wasn't even remotely close to writing it off.

All the windows on his truck got smashed out by hail then it poured rain, nearly 2 inches in an hour. So the inside of his truck was soaked.
I was parked between 2 trees im guessing that protected the sides and the rear window on my truck has a firewood protector covering it.

 

[tbm3fan]

I'm fine with my 65 F-100. Powerful 390, new suspension that is incredibly quiet ( of course I rebuilt it), rides well like a truck, simple to work on, not too quite, and not great gas mileage typical of an FE but so what.

 

[CKN]

There's a lot to what you said in that last part. We aren't going to be driving the vehicles we're in today as a daily in 40 years, nor would we likely want to with safety standards. Welds, metals, and other materials weaken over time. They aren't collector vehicles, they're what we use to get stuff done and make our lives easier.

Very, very few on this board will be around in 40 years....