I've a new 2015 Camry, 4 cylinder, that uses oil. My brother says the vehicle will use less oil as the oil gets dirty, and the particles in the oil help seal the rings. My son says the vehicle will use more oil as the viscosity thins as the oil gets more miles on it. Who is right?
Oil Usage vs mileage between oil changes
- Thread starter WayneandAnna
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How much oil is it using now? How many miles have you put on it?
I know you posted that your Camry was using oil when you first got it. The particulars escape me.
Realistically.......If you are adhering to the manufacturer's OCI, oil use should be relatively stable, through the period. If you have not yet accumulated 10k miles, it may slow considerably yet. Good luck.
I know you posted that your Camry was using oil when you first got it. The particulars escape me.
Realistically.......If you are adhering to the manufacturer's OCI, oil use should be relatively stable, through the period. If you have not yet accumulated 10k miles, it may slow considerably yet. Good luck.
Oil consumption will (should) go down as the engine breaks in, but it has nothing to do with "dirt sealing the rings." ITs just a fact of the rings sealing better as their wear pattern begins to better match the pattern of the cylinder walls. Nor is it a given fact that a thinner oil will cause higher consumption- sometimes exactly the opposite is true because the oil control rings on the piston (the bottom ring) can do a better job of scraping excess thin oil off the cylinder wall than it can if the oil is too thick.
I've used a little over 5 quarts in the first 12,500 miles. The usage rate is double in hills and mountains as on flat ground here in Illinois. The last 1,200 mile test was screwed up, so we're redoing it.
So if you lived in the mountains you would consume 10 quarts of oil in over 10,000 miles about a quart every 1,000 miles ( a little less). If it continues to do that after the first 15,000 miles I would complain. I know others might not agree but that would make me really unhappy. Even at a quart every 2,000 I would be at least making a formal complaint. I know consumer reports isn't the bible but still it's food for thought. Could it be you got an engine that just wasn't up to spec? I guess I have just been lucky as over the years none of my cars consumed that much perhaps a full qt over the full oil change at most. I have had a Camry, 2 accords, Maurano, prelude, civic, odyssey, Altima, Avalon, crv, camaro, Mazda 3.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2015/06/excessive-oil-consumption/index.htm
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2015/06/excessive-oil-consumption/index.htm
Originally Posted By: WayneandAnna
I've used a little over 5 quarts in the first 12,500 miles. The usage rate is double in hills and mountains as on flat ground here in Illinois. The last 1,200 mile test was screwed up, so we're redoing it.
How many OCs did you have during that 12k miles?
I've used a little over 5 quarts in the first 12,500 miles. The usage rate is double in hills and mountains as on flat ground here in Illinois. The last 1,200 mile test was screwed up, so we're redoing it.
How many OCs did you have during that 12k miles?
Wow, I have a 2011 Avalon and usually change the oil at 5000 miles but lately I have been doing a 10K OCI with synthetic. The oil level in the car has never moved no mater how many miles I put on the car.
I am an easy driver in the hot flat lands of Florida.
I am an easy driver in the hot flat lands of Florida.
is this a thought experiment or you want to know what to do with your specific car?
For your specific car, it's still new, so things will change. Follow the manual, monitor and chart oil consumption.
See if things are not different by 20,000 miles
For your specific car, it's still new, so things will change. Follow the manual, monitor and chart oil consumption.
See if things are not different by 20,000 miles
Good point you bring up.
What is it about leaving oil in that causes it to burn more rapidly? My guess would be the NOACK volatility increases as oil degrades in service. I think any oil will disappear if you leave it in the sump for many many miles or many years.
What is it about leaving oil in that causes it to burn more rapidly? My guess would be the NOACK volatility increases as oil degrades in service. I think any oil will disappear if you leave it in the sump for many many miles or many years.
On-spec gasoline, at least in North America, requires a final boiling point < or = 437°F.
The NOACK volatility test is in mass% loss after 1 hour at 250°C (482°F)
Motor oil volatility will increase with even the slightest bit of fuel dilution, since the volatility of on-spec gasoline exceeds the volatility of on-spec motor oil. I don't see how NOACK volatility testing of used motor oil would provide useful data.
You can easily see the methodology differences in test methods between Reid Vapor Pressure testing of gasoline and NOACK volatility testing of motor oil.
Diesel service is similar but not as dramatic. Look at the flash point specifications for diesel fuels vs. flash point test data for fresh motor oils.
The NOACK volatility test is in mass% loss after 1 hour at 250°C (482°F)
Motor oil volatility will increase with even the slightest bit of fuel dilution, since the volatility of on-spec gasoline exceeds the volatility of on-spec motor oil. I don't see how NOACK volatility testing of used motor oil would provide useful data.
You can easily see the methodology differences in test methods between Reid Vapor Pressure testing of gasoline and NOACK volatility testing of motor oil.
Diesel service is similar but not as dramatic. Look at the flash point specifications for diesel fuels vs. flash point test data for fresh motor oils.
What's an OC?
The service manager gets hot under the collar when I try to extrapolate the short term oil usage to what the engine will likely use between oil changes -- 10,000 miles. If fact, he's so mad at me asking questions that I keep thinking he'll have a heart attack while I'm talking to him. I think the engine will use more oil as the oil gets dirty. My son agrees and my brother doesn't. Both or better mechanics than me.
All engines will use some oil over the OCI. Typical oil consumption is going to be about 1/4 to 1/2 a quart every 5K to 7K miles. This little bit of oil consumed will hardly be noticed.
Cars that consume 1 quart every 1000 miles is ridiculous. Something is wrong with the engine.
Cars that consume 1 quart every 1000 miles is ridiculous. Something is wrong with the engine.
I serviced our fleet of V8 GMC Vans in the very late 70's, early 80's and they ate up
oil from new at 1qt plus every 1000 miles. We had a new 82 Cavalier in the fleet and it did the same. However we junked it out at 350K miles because it just rotted away but was on the original engine- no rebuilds. Of course many blew up very early as no one checked the oil. A few years after Mobil 1 came out I figured that may solve some issues- it didn't
Originally Posted By: stchman
All engines will use some oil over the OCI. Typical oil consumption is going to be about 1/4 to 1/2 a quart every 5K to 7K miles. This little bit of oil consumed will hardly be noticed.
Cars that consume 1 quart every 1000 miles is ridiculous. Something is wrong with the engine.
oil from new at 1qt plus every 1000 miles. We had a new 82 Cavalier in the fleet and it did the same. However we junked it out at 350K miles because it just rotted away but was on the original engine- no rebuilds. Of course many blew up very early as no one checked the oil. A few years after Mobil 1 came out I figured that may solve some issues- it didn't
Originally Posted By: stchman
All engines will use some oil over the OCI. Typical oil consumption is going to be about 1/4 to 1/2 a quart every 5K to 7K miles. This little bit of oil consumed will hardly be noticed.
Cars that consume 1 quart every 1000 miles is ridiculous. Something is wrong with the engine.
In business we call that dodging the issue.
He gets mad because he hears it everyday and he has not a fix for it and neither does the factory. Basically your screwed. I don't think its right myself but don't take it personal. Irritate them to the point they pay you off to get rid of you.
When Mercedes had all of those electrical issues several years back the salesman moaned and groaned they hated going to work.
Well their customers couldn't even make it to work.
With cars it seems when sheet goes down, if you research it hard and long enough it usually boils down to outsourcing from China....... Wasn't Toyota screwed over doing that with the seat heater fiasco?
Originally Posted By: WayneandAnna
The service manager gets hot under the collar when I try to extrapolate the short term oil usage to what the engine will likely use between oil changes -- 10,000 miles. If fact, he's so mad at me asking questions that I keep thinking he'll have a heart attack while I'm talking to him. I think the engine will use more oil as the oil gets dirty. My son agrees and my brother doesn't. Both or better mechanics than me.
He gets mad because he hears it everyday and he has not a fix for it and neither does the factory. Basically your screwed. I don't think its right myself but don't take it personal. Irritate them to the point they pay you off to get rid of you.
When Mercedes had all of those electrical issues several years back the salesman moaned and groaned they hated going to work.
Well their customers couldn't even make it to work.
With cars it seems when sheet goes down, if you research it hard and long enough it usually boils down to outsourcing from China....... Wasn't Toyota screwed over doing that with the seat heater fiasco?
Originally Posted By: WayneandAnna
The service manager gets hot under the collar when I try to extrapolate the short term oil usage to what the engine will likely use between oil changes -- 10,000 miles. If fact, he's so mad at me asking questions that I keep thinking he'll have a heart attack while I'm talking to him. I think the engine will use more oil as the oil gets dirty. My son agrees and my brother doesn't. Both or better mechanics than me.
I'd say your son is closer to correct.
Over the miles, the oil will see at least a minor amount of fuel dilution as well as some shearing, so it will get a little thinner.
The UOA sub-forum will show you this.
OTOH, if the oil is run long enough, it'll see oxidative thickening, but at the rate you're adding oil to this Camry, that'll never happen.
Over the miles, the oil will see at least a minor amount of fuel dilution as well as some shearing, so it will get a little thinner.
The UOA sub-forum will show you this.
OTOH, if the oil is run long enough, it'll see oxidative thickening, but at the rate you're adding oil to this Camry, that'll never happen.
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