Oil Spec STJLR 51.5122

[OilMiser]

I switched to 0w40 in my NA 5.0 after using the Valvoline 0w20. I didn't get that oil tested but it was noticeably noisier than the Motul 5w30 I used before it. I'm about 4500 miles into this run.

Tell me more, why did you choose 5w30 and 0w40 for your AJ133 5.0 V8?

The original spec was 5w20 and then changed to 0w20

I’ve done so much research on all this it makes my head spin. In the end I ended up leaning towards a euro spec 0w30 but I’m really not sure.

I haven’t changed it yet, still currently has whatever the dealer put in it.

Amazon.com

 

[apollo18]

Tell me more, why did you choose 5w30 and 0w40 for your AJ133 5.0 V8?

The original spec was 5w20 and then changed to 0w20

I’ve done so much research on all this it makes my head spin. In the end I ended up leaning towards a euro spec 0w30 but I’m really not sure.

I haven’t changed it yet, still currently has whatever the dealer put in it.

Amazon.com

I believe he changed as thicker oils are supposedly said to protect more then what the manuals usually prescribe

 

[OilMiser]

I believe he changed as thicker oils are supposedly said to protect more then what the manuals usually prescribe

What do you think about that increase in supposed protection? Any potential downside as far as engine longevity?

 

[kschachn]

What do you think about that increase in supposed protection? Any potential downside as far as engine longevity?

Longevity in terms of decreased wear is improved by helping to keep moving parts separated. A higher MOFT does this, it doesn't decrease longevity.

 

[OilMiser]

Longevity in terms of decreased wear is improved by helping to keep moving parts separated. A higher MOFT does this, it doesn't decrease longevity.

I don’t want to get this thread shut down too but if too thick of an oil is used in an engine it could cause damage (reduce longevity)

I’m still just trying to figure out why this engine was never recommended to be used with 5w30 at any time under in conditions in any environment when most other engines (even other LR engines) will have a range of recommendations based on all that.
It was 5w20 then changed to 0w20 and that’s whether you live in Dubai or Northern Canada.

 

[kschachn]

I don’t want to get this thread shut down too but if too thick of an oil is used in an engine it could cause damage (reduce longevity)

I’m still just trying to figure out why this engine was never recommended to be used with 5w30 at any time under in conditions in any environment when most other engines (even other LR engines) will have a range of recommendations based on all that.
It was 5w20 then changed to 0w20 and that’s whether you live in Dubai or Northern Canada.

No, unless the winter rating is inappropriate for starting conditions. No SAE grade will cause damage as you are suggesting. In other countries SAE 70-grade oils are often sold and used, they do not damage the engine nor reduce longevity.

Recommendations are just that, recommendations. They are influenced by many outside factors.

 

[OilMiser]

I’ve put 15w45 oil into a honda with a k24 once and it had serious issues, above 2500rpm it would try to go into vtec mode and have strong bucking and lack of power until I changed out the oil for the right weight. My guess is the oil was to thick to operate the VVT properly

 

[kschachn]

I’ve put 15w45 oil into a honda with a k24 once and it had serious issues, above 2500rpm it would try to go into vtec mode and have strong bucking and lack of power until I changed out the oil for the right weight. My guess is the oil was to thick to operate the VVT properly

Where did you get this 15W-45 oil?

Sorry about the bucker of a problem.

 

[OilMiser]

Where did you get this 15W-45 oil?

Sorry about the bucker of a problem.

Ohh no problem, thankfully I was able to find a gas station with everything I needed to drain and refill with lighter oil.

I got the oil from my father in laws garage, free lol.

I’ve always gone for slightly thicker oils and a fan of Rotella, this was the first time I ever had any issues like that.

When it started bucking I had no idea what was going on but the CEL came on and I had my scanner so I read it, it threw a code for “vtec solenoid” I believe. Which after some googling I came to realize might be from that heavy oil I put in there.
I changed it in a parking lot and it was good as new.

I guess it was actually my first vehicle with VVT

 

[mm3846]

Tell me more, why did you choose 5w30 and 0w40 for your AJ133 5.0 V8?

The original spec was 5w20 and then changed to 0w20

I’ve done so much research on all this it makes my head spin. In the end I ended up leaning towards a euro spec 0w30 but I’m really not sure.

I haven’t changed it yet, still currently has whatever the dealer put in it.

Amazon.com

Yes, it will make your head spin. I've hemmed and hawed over it as well.

Without speaking to an engineer at JLR who designed the motor, we will never know what's best. The timing chain failure is something we all want to avoid in these motors, so that's what we are all trying to avoid. In the earlier motors, there was a different design, and it's totally possible that no matter what you do with oil, how you drive, etc, it will just fail. The later (MY13+, or late even very MY12 if you are to believe what you read.. some say you need a MY14 or newer with the Jags) have updated timing chain guides. Many of these trucks (if you read the internet) still have issues and need timing chain rebuilds.Why do they fail?

- Extended oil change intervals?
- Too much stop and go driving and short trips, or poor driving in general (not letting the truck warm up, being abusive, etc)
- Dealer recommended 0w20 spec is not up to the task? Maybe its fine for 5k miles and not 10k.

Who knows. Could be anything, we are all just guessing. Some say you need the 0w20 to get oil to the guides faster, and running heavier oil won't do that.. which is BS. There are 5w30s with lower pour points than some 0w20s. I've done lots of web-wheeling and keyboard cruising on this issue.. I didn't jump right to 0w40 at first but now that I have I recommend it. A quality euro spec oil with MB229.5 and/or Porsche A40 is going to provide more protection than most 0w20s (which was lowered from 5w20 for FE standards to fulfill CAFE requirements for JLR) not solely because of the weight, but because of the additive packs.

There is so much anecdotal evidence out there on these motors. Someone was selling a 175k mile '13 on a forum earlier this year IIRC he bought new. Never touched timing chains and never changed out the coolant crossover pipes. Someone on Discoweb changed the coolant pipes THREE TIMES in 2 years due to leaks. Someone on this forum bought a L405 new with the 5.0 and with 5-6k OCIs did the timing chains at like 65k.

You also need to remember these are (were) mostly hand built before the Tata handover. A truck build on a Monday morning is not the same one built on a Tuesday afternoon. I think the best thing to do, now that they're starting to be old Land Rovers, is to treat them as such. Just fix what's broken, treat and run them like heavy duty farm equipment. That's what they like best.

 

[OilMiser]

Yes, it will make your head spin. I've hemmed and hawed over it as well.

Without speaking to an engineer at JLR who designed the motor, we will never know what's best. The timing chain failure is something we all want to avoid in these motors, so that's what we are all trying to avoid. In the earlier motors, there was a different design, and it's totally possible that no matter what you do with oil, how you drive, etc, it will just fail. The later (MY13+, or late even very MY12 if you are to believe what you read.. some say you need a MY14 or newer with the Jags) have updated timing chain guides. Many of these trucks (if you read the internet) still have issues and need timing chain rebuilds.Why do they fail?

- Extended oil change intervals?
- Too much stop and go driving and short trips, or poor driving in general (not letting the truck warm up, being abusive, etc)
- Dealer recommended 0w20 spec is not up to the task? Maybe its fine for 5k miles and not 10k.

Who knows. Could be anything, we are all just guessing. Some say you need the 0w20 to get oil to the guides faster, and running heavier oil won't do that.. which is BS. There are 5w30s with lower pour points than some 0w20s. I've done lots of web-wheeling and keyboard cruising on this issue.. I didn't jump right to 0w40 at first but now that I have I recommend it. A quality euro spec oil with MB229.5 and/or Porsche A40 is going to provide more protection than most 0w20s (which was lowered from 5w20 for FE standards to fulfill CAFE requirements for JLR) not solely because of the weight, but because of the additive packs.

There is so much anecdotal evidence out there on these motors. Someone was selling a 175k mile '13 on a forum earlier this year IIRC he bought new. Never touched timing chains and never changed out the coolant crossover pipes. Someone on Discoweb changed the coolant pipes THREE TIMES in 2 years due to leaks. Someone on this forum bought a L405 new with the 5.0 and with 5-6k OCIs did the timing chains at like 65k.

You also need to remember these are (were) mostly hand built before the Tata handover. A truck build on a Monday morning is not the same one built on a Tuesday afternoon. I think the best thing to do, now that they're starting to be old Land Rovers, is to treat them as such. Just fix what's broken, treat and run them like heavy duty farm equipment. That's what they like best.

Thank you for the comprehensive response!!

I totally agree with everything you said. I currently have penzoil platinum euro LX 0w30 ready to put in.

Mine has 127k miles and had the coolant pipes and pump done 2 years ago.
A few months ago it had the valve covers done and they inspected the chains and said they look great. It’s a 2011 but has been meticulously cared for. I’m hoping it will last another 10k miles or so until I have time to do the chain and probably put metal crossover pipes in.

The only point I’m not too sure of is the reason for the change to 0w20 in this engine in ALL markets for all models including the Middle East. I read in a couple threads on jaguar forums that it was switched for the protection of the timing chains. Prior to reading that I was sure it was simply for fuel economy. The posts didn’t cite any articles or anything but they sounded pretty confident

Anyways, that’s why I figured I’d go for the 0w flow even though, as you said the cold flow of some 5w30s is the same in some brands.

Anyways, if seems like we’ve come to about the same conclusion. Maybe next time I’ll go with a 0w40, what brand did you go with?

 

[kschachn]

No engine is "designed for" a particular oil grade. An engine can be designed to tolerate thinner grades of oil without excessive wear but that's it. Oil doesn't "get places" faster either. Either it is being pumped by the oil pump or it is not. The winter rating illustrates whether the oil can be pumped or it won't.

"0W flow" is only important over a 5W when the temperature is below -35 or so. Is this your operating environment? And it's not really about flow either. It is about cranking and pumpability. No 5W-30 would have the same "cold flow" as a 0W-20. One is a 30-grade while the other is a 20-grade. Even if it were about "flow" then if the one with a 5W winter rating was better it would be required to be labeled as a 0W. That's how SAE grading works. Pour point does not adequately represent the cold-weather performance of a motor oil. It has deficiencies.

Motor oil recommendations in owner's manuals are rife with undisclosed outside requirements that are anything but technical.

 

[OilMiser]

No engine is "designed for" a particular oil grade. An engine can be designed to tolerate thinner grades of oil without excessive wear but that's it. Oil doesn't "get places" faster either. Either it is being pumped by the oil pump or it is not. The winter rating illustrates whether the oil can be pumped or it won't.

"0W flow" is only important over a 5W when the temperature is below -35 or so. Is this your operating environment? And it's not really about flow either. It is about cranking and pumpability. No 5W-30 would have the same "cold flow" as a 0W-20. One is a 30-grade while the other is a 20-grade. Even if it were about "flow" then if the one with a 5W winter rating was better it would be required to be labeled as a 0W. That's how SAE grading works. Pour point does not adequately represent the cold-weather performance of a motor oil. It has deficiencies.

Motor oil recommendations in owner's manuals are rife with undisclosed outside requirements that are anything but technical.

I’ve read this response several times and I appreciate your expertise and insight.

Basically, to extrapolate from your response a course of action: get the best quality oil and don’t worry about weight.

Not so sure about “getting places faster” I think in fact a lighter weight oil would get somewhere marginally faster. Whether or not that makes a difference I don’t know.

At the risk of sounding rude or ungrateful, I’d like to throw out there that your tone via text is a bit gruff and litigious. Of course you are under no obligation to be courteous!
None the less, I appreciate you!

 

[mm3846]

Basically, to extrapolate from your response a course of action: get the best quality oil and don’t worry about weight.

If you extrapolate all of the data (both the empirical and anecdotal) presented in this forum from the beginning of time there is only one truth. Change your oil and change it often. It doesn't even need to be the "best."

 

[CarlB]

I’ve read this response several times and I appreciate your expertise and insight.

Basically, to extrapolate from your response a course of action: get the best quality oil and don’t worry about weight.

Not so sure about “getting places faster” I think in fact a lighter weight oil would get somewhere marginally faster. Whether or not that makes a difference I don’t know.

At the risk of sounding rude or ungrateful, I’d like to throw out there that your tone via text is a bit gruff and litigious. Of course you are under no obligation to be courteous!
None the less, I appreciate you!

Here is some testing of oil getting places faster if you are interested.